How Mac Jones Looked in His First Start Compared With Tom Brady

[Kasmir]

Always enjoyed your posts, always insightful, but I gotta disagree here.

Which decider-all proclaimed that running QBs are the new best type of QB? I know it's the fad for drafts among terrible teams. I'm not convinced. I feel very confident Mac will have a better career than Lance or Fields.

A QB who can throw 40 times for 70% completion, for over 300 yards, and take 1 or zero sacks a game, in my opinion is always better than a guy who runs 8 times for 60 yards. It's so much more efficient to throw it than to personally run it and take a hit. It also helps a QB play for 18+ years compared to being on the decline (like a RB) after age 32. Actually for draft criteria I would purposely go for QBs with the longest longevity (pocket QBs who minimize hits and get it out fast) as you want to miminize turnover as much as possible at the most important position.

.

Tx for the kind words.

I don't believe my post either. But I thought it'd be useful to try to articulate a widely held position. Seems to have stimulated a more useful conversation than if I had just piled on to the praise of Mac.

I actually agree with just what you said, and I'd add further that Mac's skills -- those of the traditional pocket QB -- are not easily learned and are mostly innate. Sure, with experience all QB's improve, but I believe Mac will improve too and should stay ahead of his rookie class peers.

The notion that Mac has a low ceiling is based on the belief that physically more gifted QB's will eventually learn the things that Mac already does well and that Mac won't improve.

I'll eat my virtual hat if Trey Lance (say) ever comes close to the pocket QB skills Mac has. That doesn't mean Trey Lance will bust or that Mac will succeed, just that they are different styles of QB with different kinds of ceilings.

 

[Free_Pacman]

Precisely because the game has changed, in 20 years someone other than Brady will be widely regarded as being the new GOAT. Maybe Mahomes, but nobody knows. Almost every top QB prospect has a higher ceiling than Mac, because their ceiling is Tom Brady with legs. I agree that Mac can't be the new GOAT, because he lacks the legs. Trey Lance and Justin Fields have a much higher ceiling than Mac because they might some day be better than Brady because of their legs.

FYI, there’s virtually no scenario where Mahomes will ever be considered the GOAT over Brady. Brady beat him and outplayed him in their only two matchups that matter- 2019 AFCCG and last year’s Super Bowl. Mahomes will never have an argument that he was better than Brady when he lost to a 40+ year old Brady in their two most important matchups.

I guess conceivably someone else can come around and claim the GOAT title from Brady in the next 20 years, but it won’t be Mahomes.

 

[Kasmir]

FYI, there’s virtually no scenario where Mahomes will ever be considered the GOAT over Brady. Brady beat him and outplayed him in their only two matchups that matter- 2019 AFCCG and last year’s Super Bowl. Mahomes will never have an argument that he was better than Brady when he lost to a 40+ year old Brady in their two most important matchups.

I guess conceivably someone else can come around and claim the GOAT title from Brady in the next 20 years, but it won’t be Mahomes.

Don't think it works that way: QB's don't actually play each other, their teams do. For Mahomes or anyone else to surpass Brady it will have to be based on winning more titles or more MVP's or undeniable statistical dominance. I agree it is unlikely but Mahomes has the best chance of the QB's currently playing.

 

[amfootball]

Mac was throwing darts last week. I think most people are underestimating his arm strength. His upside easily looks to be Drew Brees.

Sure if he had Sean Payton and not Josh.

 

[Pats2000]

Sure if he had Sean Payton and not Josh.

Yeah, that guy JMD, just as the OC for 4 SB's. He sure sucks

 

[Pats2000]

Yeah so far so good.. Brees had what i would consider an 'average' nfl arm - which is hardly bad.

Chad Pennington lacked arm strength especially after his rotator cuff injury. Pennington is an interesting comparison because like Brees he was super accurate at least early on.. Pennington might have been pretty good if not for the injuries..

Point is it is really ESPN that knocks his speed (and other sports media) so much. Its not his speed that will fail him - the guy runs fine. He is hardly a statue. Here is a sample scouting report..

Notice how they talk about his arm strength - that was more of an issue then his speed.

Mac Jones NFL Draft 2021: Scouting Report for New England Patriots QB | Bleacher Report | Latest News, Videos and Highlights

Guys who rarely try to earn first downs with the legs are called "slow" but its not always true. Its helpful on a bad team to be able to run a bit but its hardly critical. Guys who have success in the NFL often get the ball out in 2.5 seconds. Some can get the ball out before a guy running straight at them hits them..

Life we saw Mac do against the Fins, he ate that blitz up

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Don't think it works that way: QB's don't actually play each other, their teams do. For Mahomes or anyone else to surpass Brady it will have to be based on winning more titles or more MVP's or undeniable statistical dominance. I agree it is unlikely but Mahomes has the best chance of the QB's currently playing.

Mahomes is a prolific weapon, like Marino. No indication to me that he will be any more successful than Dan (don't get me started on that gift title in '19).

Graham won seven pro titles and has comparable accomplishments to Brady. Flashy athleticism and big passing stats don't put you in the GOAT conversation.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Mac Jones ‘is better than what Tom Brady was’ in 2001, Kurt Warner says

The Hall of Fame quarterback has high praise for the Patriots rookie.

www.masslive.com

 

[sb1]

Mac Jones ‘is better than what Tom Brady was’ in 2001, Kurt Warner says

The Hall of Fame quarterback has high praise for the Patriots rookie.

www.masslive.com

No real evidence of that but he's entitled to his opinion.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

No real evidence of that but he's entitled to his opinion.

No, he only played Brady twice in 2001 and is a HOFer...what does he know? it was obviously a subjective assessment based on what he sees on the field. Do you not want Mac to be better than Brady was?

In 2001, Brady had 18 TDs, 12 INTs, 64% completions, 2843 yards

Thus far, Mac has 13 TDs, 7 INTs, 70% completions, 2333 yards

So Mac is on pace for 26-30 TDs, 10-14 INTs, 70% completions, 5000 yards

 

[50-yard-line]

Mac Jones ‘is better than what Tom Brady was’ in 2001, Kurt Warner says

The Hall of Fame quarterback has high praise for the Patriots rookie.

www.masslive.com

I can agree with this (or at least, I don't find it to be nonsensical sacrilege), and then add that it means little with regard to whether Mac will ever approach what Brady has done.

The progression of Tom Brady from '01 to '03 was incredible. From there, he nearly carried a team to the SB in '06, and changed the football world in '07 - Brady was arguably the GOAT then! By '14 (well, Feb'15), there was little question after the Seattle game. He retires THEN and he's the GOAT.

What he's done since then is, well, just ridiculous. Absurd. Not-even-possible.

So, sure, Jones might be more NFL ready now than Brady was when Bledsoe got wrecked. And Jones shows a lot of the same characteristics that made Brady special. Brady beat teams before the snap - I'm starting to see hints of that already from Jones. He can make the tough throws, and the right throws. No stage looks to big for him, already.

Happy he's here, excited to see him develop. His name doesn't belong in the same sentence as the QB Tom Brady became.

 

[RobertWeathers]

When I watch this, lots of similarities.

Arguments can be made for both sides.

Tom seems to have a bit more zip on the ball.

Mac seems a bit calmer with more touch on his throws but the swing pass to KFaulk was sweet.

League is a lot different now.

 

[sb1]

No, he only played Brady twice in 2001 and is a HOFer...it was obviously a subjective assessment. Do you not want Mac to be better than Brady was?

In 2001, Brady had 18 TDs, 12 INTs, 64% completions, 2843 yards

Thus far, Mac has 13 TDs, 7 INTs, 70% completions, 2333 yards

So Mac is on pace for 26-30 TDs, 10-14 INTs, 70% completions, 5000 yards

The stats are not comparable. Different eras of the game.

Warner didn't really offer any evidence to back up his opinion but he's entitled to have one. I totally disagree with the idea that Brady was "a placeholder" in 2001 and apparently so did BB or Drew would have been back in the game as soon as he was healthy. Brady had IT from the beginning of his career as a starter. The team bought in to him. Dunno if Mac does or if he's just a guy who can execute a system really well when he plays within it. We also don't know if Mac will put in the work needed this offseason to build his arm strength and work on other areas of his game. Brady did that and it paid off immediately when he was named backup out of camp and then named starter.

Also Warner didn't play Brady, the Rams defense did.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The stats are not comparable. Different eras of the game.

Warner didn't really offer any evidence to back up his opinion but he's entitled to have one. I totally disagree with the idea that Brady was "a placeholder" in 2001 and apparently so did BB or Drew would have been back in the game as soon as he was healthy. Brady had IT from the beginning of his career as a starter. The team bought in. Dunno if Mac does or if he's just a guy who can execute a system really well when he plays within it. We also don't know if Mac will put in the work needed this offseason to build his arm strength and work on other areas of his game. Brady did that and it paid off immediately when he was named starter.

Also Warner didn't play Brady, the Rams defense did.

Like I said, it was subjective statement by Warner - no empirical evidence needed. It was not meant to be a definitive "be all and end all" comparison of the two. He didn't see him on the field but he watched him on the sidelines, which is probably better than you watching it on your TV set. And no, Brady was carried to the SB in 2001. Let's not act as if he dragged a bad team across the finish line. Did you even see Man in the Arena last night?

And you didn't answer my question - do you or do you not want Mac to be better than Brady in his first year? Because if you were a fan of the team, you would.

 

[Fuzz]

Tom Brady And Mac Jones First 10 Games As Starter | StatMuse

Of those 2, StatMuse has Tom Brady as the most highly rated. He is ranked 466th overall and is projected to put up 0 fantasy points this year.

www.statmuse.com

All the caveats about different era, yada yada. Still, eerily similar.

 

[sb1]

Like I said, it was subjective statement by Warner - no empirical evidence needed. It was not meant to be a definitive "be all and end all" comparison of the two. He didn't see him on the field but he watched him on the sidelines, which is probably better than you watching it on your TV set. And no, Brady was carried to the SB in 2001. Let's not act as if he dragged a bad team across the finish line. Did you even see Man in the Arena last night?

And you didn't answer my question - do you or do you not want Mac to be better than Brady in his first year? Because if you were a fan of the team, you would.

And like I said he's entitled to his opinion even if I disagree with it.

Brady was not carried to the Super Bowl in 2001. At all. Not even briefly.

Sure, I want Mac to be better than the greatest QB of all time and win 10 Super Bowls. Realistically neither will happen.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

And like I said he's entitled to his opinion even if I disagree with it.

Brady was not carried to the Super Bowl in 2001. At all. Not even briefly.

Sure, I want Mac to be better than the greatest QB of all time and win 10 Super Bowls. Realistically neither will happen.

LOL, you think Brady carried the Pats to SB 36...

And I'm only talking about their first years as starters. Do you or do you not want Mac to be better in 2021 than Brady was in 2001? I'm not talking career. I take it you don't because you don't like anyone doing better than Tommy.

 

[sb1]

LOL, you think Brady carried the Pats to SB 36...

And I'm only talking about their first years as starters. Do you or do you not want Mac to be better in 2021 than Brady was in 2001? I'm not talking career. I take it you don't because you don't like anyone doing better than Tommy.

I want the outcome of the season to be the same as it was that year.

And the 2001 Pats miss the playoffs if Brady wasn't starter.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Tom Brady And Mac Jones First 10 Games As Starter | StatMuse

Of those 2, StatMuse has Tom Brady as the most highly rated. He is ranked 466th overall and is projected to put up 0 fantasy points this year.

www.statmuse.com

View attachment 37724

All the caveats about different era, yada yada. Still, eerily similar.

OK that is weird.

Tom cooled off his last 4 games and went 4-0 regardless. The D was on fire.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I want the outcome of the season to be the same as it was that year.

And the 2001 Pats miss the playoffs if Brady wasn't starter.

You're not answering the question, which means you don't want Mac to outplay Brady his first year as starter. You just want Mac to win the super bowl but look worse doing so than Brady did. Does it hurt you that much if Mac statistically does better and looks better on the field than Brady did in 2001?