How Belichick lost his place in posterity

[Wozzy]

I literally showed you, how Brady makes defenses give up less points and you still didnt get it. You keep making this claim that points is the only thing that matters for a defense, yet, the Bucs by only adding Brady to offense and nobody to defense, went from 27th in points to 7th. Thats why points is not this end all be all for how good a defense is. Sacks forced turnovers, yards, Your defense letting the other team keep the ball for 8 minute drives, 3rd down converstion, etc etc. You are so hung up on the one thing so you can dismiss Brady its unreal. Fact of the matter is, the offense is very much contributing greatly to a team giving up a lot of points or not. Ask Tampa where they went from 27th in points to 7th with the addition of a Qb that did long drives and didnt turn the ball over. I know You Bill can do no wrong people are upset because the worst thing possible happened, Bill didnt win after Brady left and got fired, but at this point its just silly.

Regardless if you like it or dont. If there was no Brady, Bill coaches the pats about 2 more years and gets fired from the Patriots. There is no 20 year run, Bill was 5-13 with the pats when Brady took over, then he was 29-38 after Brady left. This isnt some hard to figure out thing, I promise.

No, you said Brady defenses gave up fewer points. Saying something happened isn’t giving evidence it happened. You never showed us how?

Brady was out there stuffing the run, sacking opposing passers, making tackles, covering receivers and making interceptions… thank god for Tom. Terrible defenders like Richard Seymour, McGinest, Law, Wilfork, Bruschi and others would be nowhere without him. Laughable.

I never said “points is the only stat that matters,” in fact the only way for this entire bogus thread to continue all you Brady zealots can do it is to completely make stuff up and suggest I said it. Lie.

I said points is the most important stat, not the only stat. I said DVOA was nonsense because it is.

Offense can complement defense, it can’t turn a bad defense into a good one, it can’t turn an average defense into a great one. If any of this BS flat Earth theory you guys are peddling was true Brady would have closer to 23 rings than 7.

Regardless of whether you like it or not, BB drafted and developed Brady. You don’t have one without the other. Brady had Arians fired and went 8-9, he needed good coaching the same way coaches need good players. It’s a team game.

 

[Wozzy]

The legend of the Stacked super Tampa Bay bucs who had not won a playoff game in 18 years, has far outreached legendary status. Cousins had a great wide receiving corp, how did that go? It takes a lot to win a superbowl. There are hundreds and hundreds of good Qbs that could not win one. The bucs had no idea how to win when brady got there. Gronk was there because Brady went there. If Brady decided to come back to the pats or retire, and Tampa rolled with winston again or their backup, there are zero humans on the earth that would have called Tampa a super team in 2020. People have a hard time taking actual reality and diminishing what Brady brought to a team, so they do the next best thing, they try to use everything else to say why a team won other than Brady. The winning and losing stops when Brady is not there. It became so blantant on the Pats it got a coach fired that was untouchable.

Even if Winston stays and is not a turnover machine, Tampa goes nowhere. They didnt know how to win, they didnt know how to handle certain game situations. Watch a game in 2019 and watch a tampa game in 2020. It was unreal how different it looked. Look at high pressure drives for the pats after Brady left. Its just gross. Ok here we go, 2 minutes to win it all.....and they punted.

What I said about Tampa being the best landing spot, I said prior to Tom announcing he was leaving New England.

Once he chose Tampa I said they immediately became Super Bowl favorites.

“Didn’t know how to win,” funny stuff.

 

[maust]

So you agree with me 100%, good to know.

(sigh)

 

[Wozzy]

(sigh)

You're just reinforcing everything I've been saying and suggesting I've said something different. It's not different.

 

[maust]

You're just reinforcing everything I've been saying and suggesting I've said something different. It's not different.

I wholeheartedly reject your Brees analogy, I found it an apples to oranges argument. I maintain having a competent offense has a lot to do with the pressure a defense operates under. That was never more clear than the difference in the Bucs D with Brady rather than Winston at QB.

 

[signbabybrady]

 

[Wozzy]

I wholeheartedly reject your Brees analogy, I found it an apples to oranges argument. I maintain having a competent offense has a lot to do with the pressure a defense operates under. That was never more clear than the difference in the Bucs D with Brady rather than Winston at QB.

The Brees example worked because he had a top five offense and led the entire NFL in passing three years in a row... it didn't turn his 32nd ranked defense into one of the better defenses in the league... because that's total nonsense.

I agree that Jameis Winston put undue pressure on his defense by leading the NFL in turnovers, especially put undue pressure on his rookie and second year CB's because the Buc's defensive front was the best run stuffing team in the league. The only chance opponents had to move the ball on them was passing.

That being said Brady didn't turn the 18th ranked defense in points allowed in 2019 into the 6th best defense in points allowed in 2020 as much as another year of experience for those CB's and the addition of Antoine Winfield in the draft did.

Brady not turning the ball over certainly helped... but it certainly wasn't the driving force that improved the defense. The defense from 2018 when Arian's arrived went from 29th in points allowed, to 18th in 2019, to 6th in 2020 when Brady arrived... it had more to do with coaching and developing better players than it did complementary offense.

I said way back in this thread that Brady's addition and Winston and his turnovers subtraction was the single biggest driver for the Buc's success. You're only repeating back what I said earlier and suggesting I said something different.

Brady didn't turn a bad defense good, nor did he "teach the Buc's how to win," he played QB at the highest level, but the team around him was loaded with pro bowl/all pro caliber players. They were stupid talented and athletic... this isn't Rudy or a Disney movie.

 

[Calhoun44]

WTF, all this Brady talk has got me having flashbacks to 2020.

I'm just checking in to make sure no one is spreading nonsense about "Belichick losing his place in posterity"....Carry on....

 

[maust]

WTF, all this Brady talk has got me having flashbacks to 2020.

I'm just checking in to make sure no one is spreading nonsense about "Belichick losing his place in posterity"....Carry on....

Wow, a rare Calhoun sighting! And only a week removed from the eclipse... (reaches for tin foil)

 

[sb1]

No, you said Brady defenses gave up fewer points. Saying something happened isn’t giving evidence it happened. You never showed us how?

Brady was out there stuffing the run, sacking opposing passers, making tackles, covering receivers and making interceptions… thank god for Tom. Terrible defenders like Richard Seymour, McGinest, Law, Wilfork, Bruschi and others would be nowhere without him. Laughable.

.

I said points is the most important stat, not the only stat. I said DVOA was nonsense because it is.

Points matters. Points PER game doesn't. It doesn't even rise to the level of "important stat". It's a product of schedule, division, opponents, injuries for both sides and that's it. The only thing more worthless than points per game is points per game ranking unless you think apples can be compared with oranges.

Offense can complement defense, it can’t turn a bad defense into a good one, it can’t turn an average defense into a great one. If any of this BS flat Earth theory you guys are peddling was true Brady would have closer to 23 rings than 7.

Regardless of whether you like it or not, BB drafted and developed Brady. You don’t have one without the other. Brady had Arians fired and went 8-9, he needed good coaching the same way coaches need good players. It’s a team game.

You know the Glazers and they told you Brady had Arians fired? Really?

Also Brady did more to develop himself than any other QB ever.

 

[Calhoun44]

Wow, a rare Calhoun sighting! And only a week removed from the eclipse... (reaches for tin foil)

Since this thread is clearly off-topic....
Are you ready for the B's playoff run? Maybe they will make up for last year's disappointment. (Wishful thinking)

 

[signbabybrady]

Since this thread is clearly off-topic....
Are you ready for the B's playoff run? Maybe they will make up for last year's disappointment. (Wishful thinking)

 

[maust]

Since this thread is clearly off-topic....
Are you ready for the B's playoff run? Maybe they will make up for last year's disappointment. (Wishful thinking)

Always ready for the run my friend.
Never ready when it ends

 

[cmasspatsfan]

What's funny reading this thread is you guys agree on 90% of what each is saying and arguing over the small 10%. Youn guys make it interesting around here.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Agreed. However they plan to erase "Do Your Job" wasn't explained. Tell Patriots employees not to say it? Seems to me it's a slogan worth keeping.

I'm not a Canadiens fan but this should be kept in their locker room forever

To You From Failing Hands…

Two verses from John McCrae's poem "In Flanders Field" are posted in the Montreal Canadiens' dressing room since the early 1950's.

cheeringthelogo.ca

 

[Wozzy]

Points matters. Points PER game doesn't. It doesn't even rise to the level of "important stat".

Points determines wins and losses, there’s no more important stat in football. Stop sniffing glue.

 

[maust]

What's funny reading this thread is you guys agree on 90% of what each is saying and arguing over the small 10%. Youn guys make it interesting around here.

Sort of the point I've been trying to illustrate. In the interest of carrying the point on that 10% there's no end of distortion.

 

[aluminum seats]

So this thread is still going huh

So weird to be a patriots fan and somehow hate Bill Belichick. People are funny

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Points determines wins and losses, there’s no more important stat in football. Stop sniffing glue.

You make some good arguments why do you have to throw an insult at the end of your posts? Just keep it to an intelligent back and forth.

 

[Wozzy]

You make some good arguments why do you have to throw an insult at the end of your posts? Just keep it to an intelligent back and forth.

Saying points don't matter is akin to saying air is overrated for mammals, or water overrated for fish. But I'll try harder to be nice.