Have the Pats already addressed the O-line issues??

[JMC00]

Except for Solder the projected starting OL if we make no moves played in the AFCCG which was possibly the worst game by an OL in the BB era.

Except for the fact that

Vollmer was playing LT, not RT and Tre Jackson would have started at RG, who had started the last 6-7 games there and got injured against Miami and didn't play in the playoffs

 

[Ring 6]

it's not trolling........that level of misery is totally legit for him

the caveat is in the fact that he's wrong

The infatuation must stop.

 

[Ring 6]

Except for the fact that

Vollmer was playing LT, not RT and Tre Jackson would have started at RG, who had started the last 6-7 games there and got injured against Miami and didn't play in the playoffs

Jackson was benched for poor play.
Yes Vollmer was a LT.
Its not like the OL was just not so good, it was terrible.
Are you really telling me the Interior OL was not among the worst in the NFL?

And if Jackson played, it would not have been any better.

 

[RobertWeathers]

There is no contact in camp. We found out in 2014 that BB considers the first 4 games what camp used to be.
There will not be anyone available by the time we find out they still suck.

Why would we hestitate to sign a starting caliber G to set the bar for where they have to improve to in order to play? I don't understand why people are fighting a step to improve the team and limit the risk of having a horrendous weakness all over again.
What am I missing? Why are we not allowed to have players compete against the guys who sucked?

Contact and physicality are one of many ways to evaluate players.

 

[Ring 6]

Contact and physicality are one of many ways to evaluate players.

How do you evaluate an OL who couldn't block a DL in 2015 without contact?
Its like saying we should get a better defensive player if in training camp the tackling isn't better.

 

[RobertWeathers]

How do you evaluate an OL who couldn't block a DL in 2015 without contact?
Its like saying we should get a better defensive player if in training camp the tackling isn't better.

Line calls, adjustments, technique, drills, know the plays, assignments, scheme, etc.

Sure- when the bullets start flying you don't know....See Jordan Devey

You know that.

 

[Ring 6]

Line calls, adjustments, technique, drills, know the plays, assignments, scheme, etc.

Sure- when the bullets start flying you don't know....See Jordan Devey

You know that.

The problem with the OL was that they could not block the player they were supposed to block.
You will not know if they got better at that until you repeatedly see them do it against varying levels of competition.

Again, I return to my point.

1) Are you telling me the Interior OL was not one of the worst in the NFL?
2) Why would you not bring in players to improve it? If you bring in an average starting G and these guys improve to better than average then they beat him out.
Why would we not do that at a positon that was very, very bad?

 

[DaBruinz]

Belichick did not renew the coach. Are we saying Patrick Graham sucked too?

Awful injury situation?
The only OL out for the AFCCG was Solder. Unless you count Jackson who was benched for poor play.

I watched the interior OL play and it gave me little logical hope.
They were bad football players.

Perhaps they will improve.

My point is I wouldn't count on it and risk it costing us another Championship, and you seem to be arguing, what the hell, lets do nothing and see what happens.

Andy - You just love re-writing history. Jackson was out of the play-offs because of injury. Not because he was benched.

Waddle and Jackson both missed the play-offs due to injury. Waddle his shoulder and Jackson his knee.

Mason, Vollmer, Cannon, and Kline were all playing hurt. For you to say that only Solder was out for the AFCCG is ridiculous. Wendell says HI.

You're claims are BS and not factual.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The problem with the OL was that they could not block the player they were supposed to block.
You will not know if they got better at that until you repeatedly see them do it against varying levels of competition.

Again, I return to my point.

1) Are you telling me the Interior OL was not one of the worst in the NFL?
2) Why would you not bring in players to improve it? If you bring in an average starting G and these guys improve to better than average then they beat him out.
Why would we not do that at a positon that was very, very bad?

I support bringing player in to compete who may offer improvement.

 

[DaBruinz]

Jackson was benched for poor play.
Yes Vollmer was a LT.
Its not like the OL was just not so good, it was terrible.
Are you really telling me the Interior OL was not among the worst in the NFL?

And if Jackson played, it would not have been any better.

Andy - You don't know what you're talking about. Jackson wasn't benched for poor play. He was out because of a knee injury. Per usual, you're living in some fantasy world.

 

[DaBruinz]

JMC00, how are you disagreeing with this statement?

Because it's factually wrong.

Jackson was out with a knee injury.
Wendell was out.
Waddle was out with a shoulder injury.

Those are 3 O-linemen who missed the AFCCG besides Solder.

Furthermore, Andy, Vollmer, Cannon, Kline and Mason were all playing with injuries..

 

[Ring 6]

Because it's factually wrong.

Jackson was out with a knee injury.
Wendell was out.
Waddle was out with a shoulder injury.

Those are 3 O-linemen who missed the AFCCG besides Solder.

Furthermore, Andy, Vollmer, Cannon, Kline and Mason were all playing with injuries..

Jackson was benched, so he would not have played if healthy.
Wendell is gone.
Waddle was 5th string OT.

Aside from Solder we played our starting 5.
Guys playing hurt in January is a fact of life, not an excuse for sucking.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy - You don't know what you're talking about. Jackson wasn't benched for poor play. He was out because of a knee injury. Per usual, you're living in some fantasy world.

He was benched, playing a handful of snaps, then was injured.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy - You just love re-writing history. Jackson was out of the play-offs because of injury. Not because he was benched.

Waddle and Jackson both missed the play-offs due to injury. Waddle his shoulder and Jackson his knee.

Mason, Vollmer, Cannon, and Kline were all playing hurt. For you to say that only Solder was out for the AFCCG is ridiculous. Wendell says HI.

You're claims are BS and not factual.

All you have to do is look at Jackson playing time. He was the 3rd G and his playing time was getting cut before he was injured. His inactive status was as much about his play as his injury.

Waddle was an emergency only player.

 

[captain stone]

Even if EVERY SINGLE DAMN OLMAN on this team were healthy, we would still need a starting LG,
a legitimate Swing Tackle, AND a high-round-caliber, athletic OT who could start as early as 2017.

 

[Ring 6]

So it appears that people feel that if Tre Jackson was active, playing his typical 15 snaps as the 3rd G and Waddle was healthy, and probably inactive, we would have won the AFCCG and the SB.

I don't think I've ever seen a case where the reason our season ended was directly related to awful play by one unit, and people are up in arms about NOT fixing it.

Where are these good players that didn't show up on my TV?

 

[aluminum seats]

They chose not to retain the OL coach, and they chose not to retain Graham.
The fact that you want to stretch that out to be the excuse for crappy play by the OLineman is that trolling.

Its fine though. I prefer that we get better players than the ones we failed with and you want to keep them and blame their coach. We see it differently. Not sure why that makes you upset.

This is so muddled it's a little hard to get through, but I'll try. First, your repeated references to Graham are just sort of strange. Let me simplify: do you feel that the coaching was not a problem? And don't worry, I'm not upset.

Except for Solder the projected starting OL if we make no moves played in the AFCCG which was possibly the worst game by an OL in the BB era.
I get that there were injuries during the season, and if they played well when healthy, I'd be fine. But they didn't.

Offensive lines rely on continuity. This line was a patchwork mess for much of the year. Since you want to focus only on the championship game, I would note that even with the considerable coaching and health issues, the team still came within one play of getting to overtime against a defense that ran roughshod over Carolina 2 weeks later. And significantly, Stork was tipping the snap on nearly every play. Now, the player did that, but it is also a particular error in coaching.

Players are always the ones that play, but I think we all agree on the importance of coaching and how it affects the product on the field, right? Right.

I am afraid of the OL we have.
I cannot fathom how anyone would think it is good enough after watching the last month and a half of the season.

I say we have:
Above average LT in Solder (who had an injury that has a high recurrence rate)
Average RT in Vollmer (who is injury prone and declining quickly)
No other player on the OL who is at least average.

Which do you dispute?
Is it really a bad thing to get average or above players at positions where you have no one who is not below average?

I'm all for getting great players everywhere. I think you're overly pessimistic about what the Pats already have. I may be wrong. But it would actually help me respect your case more if you acknowledged the coaching and health (and rookie) issues that contributed to the poor play the latter part of last year.

 

[DaBruinz]

All you have to do is look at Jackson playing time. He was the 3rd G and his playing time was getting cut before he was injured. His inactive status was as much about his play as his injury.

Waddle was an emergency only player.

Offensive Player Snap Count Stats: 2015 NFL Season

Jackson played 607 out of a possible 1,116 offensive snaps. Jackson only played in 13 games. So simple math says that is actually an average of 46 snaps per game played. That's 3 times what you claim. Please stop with your ridiculousness already. It only shines badly on you.

Furthermore, Andy, all you have to do is look at the Patriots injury report for the play-offs to know that you are talking out your ass (big surprise there). Jackson was list as OUT with Knee injury against both KC and Denver.

Injury Report

But yeah, Andy. You're right. He was benched..

 

[VJCPatriot]

Drafting a good guard isn't expensive. You can find good ones mid to late round even. Luckily we have two 3rd round choices and three 6th rounders.

However finding a good tackle is usually a lot harder, they get taken early and often. The health of Solder/Vollmer is the main concern. That and the fact that Cannon hasn't looked like he could handle being the main OT protecting Brady.

Tackles are very expensive in free agency, so I expect this position to be addressed through the draft. Hoping that Dante can turn coal into diamonds again.

 

[ashley]

I think a good veteran presence at guard is just what the interior of our line needs. Whether it's Wendell or if we go out and get somebody via free agency, I think that would help tremendously. I got so tired late in the year seeing defensive tackle after defensive tackle abusing Kline and our rookies. Hopefully, with a year under their belt our rookies will be better and Kline will be on the bench where he should be.