Gronk trade completed

[SHOWTIME15]

What kind of Chess was he playing before Brady came along? The guy wasn’t exactly Bobby Fischer as a HC.

Even though the results didn't show it on the field, he was turning that Browns team around...may have even gone to the Super Bowl in 95. And they were getting ready to draft Ray Lewis, before Modell fired him.

 

[Kontradiction]

Even though the results didn't show it on the field, he was turning that Browns team around...may have even gone to the Super Bowl in 95. And they were getting ready to draft Ray Lewis, before Modell fired him.

If my aunt had balls, she’d be my uncle. If my grandma didn’t die and had balls, she be my grandpa... who is also dead. If’s and but’s aside, he has a losing record as a HC without Brady and was cruising toward getting **** canned in 2002 if Brady didn’t come in and help them steady the ship.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

What kind of Chess was he playing before Brady came along? The guy wasn’t exactly Bobby Fischer as a HC.

Even though the results didn't show it on the field, he was turning that Browns team around...may have even gone to the Super Bowl in 95. And they were getting ready to draft Ray Lewis, before Modell fired him.

The Cleveland Browns made the postseason 7 out of 11 times from 1980-1990.

Belichick then took over coming off a down season. They made the postseason in 1994 and missed in 1991, 1992, 1993, and 1995.

That’s a quite a long rebuilding project, one that most coaches would never even get a chance at after failing to get to .500 after three years.

And then you predictably revert to the classic “they would have won the Super Bowl in 1995 if it weren’t for Modell!” What a load of crap. Just like Ben Roethlisberger would have won at least seven Super Bowls with the Patriots in an alternative universe that can’t be disproven.

Tommy12 being Tommy12.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Belichick Minus Brady

Made Postseason
1994

Missed Postseason
1991, 1992, 1993, 1995, 2000, 2008

Was heading towards a certain last place finish
2001


Early Bird Bob chose a head coach over two Hall of Fame players. Yet another terrible decision by the horny, senile buffoon.

 

[Hyped]

The Cleveland Browns made the postseason 7 out of 11 times from 1980-1990.

Belichick then took over coming off a down season. They made the postseason in 1994 and missed in 1991, 1992, 1993, and 1995.

That’s a quite a long rebuilding project, one that most coaches would never even get a chance at after failing to get to .500 after three years.

And then you predictably revert to the classic “they would have won the Super Bowl in 1995 if it weren’t for Modell!” What a load of crap. Just like Ben Roethlisberger would have won at least seven Super Bowls with the Patriots in an alternative universe that can’t be disproven.

Tommy12 being Tommy12.

Not to get into the middle of an argument....but back in the day, rebuilding projects took a 4-5 year window unlike today with impatient owners/fans.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Not to get into the middle of an argument....but back in the day, rebuilding projects took a 4-5 year window unlike today with impatient owners/fans.

That’s fine. The overall point can be made with broad brush strokes.

 

[mgteich]

Are we sure Stidham is a “scrub”? Way too premature imo to say either way.
..

I agree.

And since we don't know about Stidham, we should draft a quarterback in the top 4th round to compete with Stidham this year and next.

I don't think that the plan for a 2021 starter shouldn't be Stidham or whoever we trade our draft for in 2021.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Honestly, people trashing Belichick need to leave the fanbase. It's one thing to say Brady was more important than Bill, it's another to repeat the same old Cleveland Browns nonsense about Bill year after year. Brady is on record as saying Belichick is the GOAT coach - that should be enough for us. You would think after 6 super bowls that people would give him a chance to build another dynasty...

 

[Drewski]

What kind of Chess was he playing before Brady came along? The guy wasn’t exactly Bobby Fischer as a HC.

Simply looking at numbers/stats, he was the offspring of Jeff Fisher and Steve Spagnuolo, pre 2001. Sub 500 head coach who made his hay as a DC of a top 10 ranked unit over the course of 5 seasons and then had big splashes in the two biggest games of his career prior to that point.

Sure stats can lie and all of that. But I feel fairly confident that when he was hired in 2000, if this site had existed (maybe it did, and I simply didn't know in Jakarta that it did), not many people would have said "Yaaaa, we got the Hoodie"

The Legend of BB and TB12 were legends largely built together.

 

[Vindicate]

I honestly think Asante Samuels is correct. BB needed Brady more than Brady needed BB and I am afraid we'll see proof positive this season as we struggle to 9-7 while Brady is 12-4 and in NFL MVP discussion.

BB wasn't winning ANY SBs with scrub QBs

Brady likely would have won some SBs with scrub HCs, I believe.

We have seen Peyton win with Kubiak, Roethelisberger with Tomlin and Rodgers win with McCarthy. And I don't rate those 3 HCs much at all.

The last HC to win with a scrub QB was Gruden with Brad Johnson. And maybe you can argue Harbaugh with Flacco although Flacco really caught fire that postseason and didn't play like a scrub, so not valid.

So, I understand what you're saying, but I think there's a fundamental difference on how you and I would judge this next season in relation to BB vs. TB (which is okay - this stuff is subjective to a point), so let me kinda break it down:

If BB goes 9-7 and TB goes 12-4, I consider that pretty much a wash. Why I say this is, TB left an ailing team to find an abundance of riches in Tampa. BB is left with hardly anything at this point, little to no cap space, and is facing a pretty intense schedule as well.

What I'm trying to get at, and unfortunately we prolly will never see this, is that you just can't judge them against one another right now, and you probably won't be able to because if it takes two years for BB to build up his roster again, Brady will be enjoying a retirement ceremony while BB is drafting the last few cogs to his new regime (hopefully!!!)

An amazing QB does need good coaching as much as an amazing coach does need a smart, great QB. I think that both can be true.

 

[scout]

Simply looking at numbers/stats, he was the offspring of Jeff Fisher and Steve Spagnuolo, pre 2001. Sub 500 head coach who made his hay as a DC of a top 10 ranked unit over the course of 5 seasons and then had big splashes in the two biggest games of his career prior to that point.

Sure stats can lie and all of that. But I feel fairly confident that when he was hired in 2000, if this site had existed (maybe it did, and I simply didn't know in Jakarta that it did), not many people would have said "Yaaaa, we got the Hoodie"

The Legend of BB and TB12 were legends largely built together.

BB would not have 6 World Championships without Brady. However, I remember one that was won due to BB's coaching. The interception that saved the Seattle game had been practiced all week. Butler knew Seattle was going to pass by the formation they were in. That is coaching. Yes, Brady put points on the board, but the game was won because of the defensive play.

 

[Drewski]

BB would not have 6 World Championships without Brady. However, I remember one that was won due to BB's coaching. The interception that saved the Seattle game had been practiced all week. Butler knew Seattle was going to pass by the formation they were in. That is coaching. Yes, Brady put points on the board, but the game was won because of the defensive play.

Pink Stripes!

No doubt BB is a great coach. That was not my point. But his greatness has been built in the last 20 years, not his first 21 (or whatever the number is) in the league.

Prior to 2000, his greatest achievement was a single game plan in a SB.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

BB would not have 6 World Championships without Brady. However, I remember one that was won due to BB's coaching. The interception that saved the Seattle game had been practiced all week. Butler knew Seattle was going to pass by the formation they were in. That is coaching. Yes, Brady put points on the board, but the game was won because of the defensive play.

Sure...that was a good coaching example.

But what about absolutely horrendous gameplan against Baltimore in the AFCDG or the defensive meltdown against the Seahawks (drive the length of the field for a TD with 25 seconds in first half; mismatch the entire first half with Arrington on Chris Matthews.)

Some coaching moves that turn out good; some coaching moves that turn out bad. Same with every coach.

Belichick, contrary to absurd myth, is not in fact the only coach who is aware of film breakdown and situational football. Other head coaches don't stand around scratching their asses all week.

 

[PatsBoy12]

No worries - I should have been clearer. The “Brady offense” is not a shot at TB - it’s referring to the offense where he is slinging it and carrying his team on his back. I was making a a distinction between that and the power run game that carried the Patriots to the 2018 title. They could not replicate that in 2019 because of injuries so they went back to the “Brady offense” which wasn’t very good last year. For whatever reason - injuries, decline in QB play, etc. It doesn’t matter.

My point was it was an eye opener seeing Bill basically tell the offense to get off the field with over a minute left in the half of a very important game. Obviously the confidence was not there and with the GOAT at QB that was shocking.

I understand. And you make a strong argument now that it's been made clear for me. Thank you. And you know what... I agree mostly. I especially agree about how eye-opening it was and still is even with the new circumstances. It even more emphasizing how great Brady really has been all these years. And while he may never be quite so high again ever, I still think any talk of his demise is greatly exaggerated.

 

[TheRainMaker]

If my aunt had balls, she’d be my uncle. If my grandma didn’t die and had balls, she be my grandpa... who is also dead. If’s and but’s aside, he has a losing record as a HC without Brady and was cruising toward getting **** canned in 2002 if Brady didn’t come in and help them steady the ship.

Guarantee you nobody will challenge you on this. I’ve said this many times and there was crickets. I’ve also seen you repeat this as well a few times and nobody has a rebuttal.

 

[scout]

Sure...that was a good coaching example.

But what about absolutely horrendous gameplan against Baltimore in the AFCDG or the defensive meltdown against the Seahawks (drive the length of the field for a TD with 25 seconds in first half; mismatch the entire first half with Arrington on Chris Matthews.)

Some coaching moves that turn out good; some coaching moves that turn out bad. Same with every coach.

Belichick, contrary to absurd myth, is not in fact the only coach who is aware of film breakdown and situational football. Other head coaches don't stand around scratching their asses all week.

So, pick me the coach that wins 6 World Championships with Brady as the QB.

 

[Kontradiction]

So, pick me the coach that wins 6 World Championships with Brady as the QB.

You’re responding to a fact-based post with a hypothetical. That should tell you all you need to know about your argument. On the contrary, what coach has had as easy a job as Bill Belichick since 2001? Which one has had an All-World QB willing to play for less money under a hard cap when he was well within his rights and abilities to bend the franchise over a table?

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Belichick Minus Brady

Made Postseason
1994

Missed Postseason
1991, 1992, 1993, 1995, 2000, 2008

Was heading towards a certain last place finish
2001


Early Bird Bob chose a head coach over two Hall of Fame players. Yet another terrible decision by the horny, senile buffoon.

I thought BB did a good job in Cleveland given the circumstances. Given the compensation we gave NY BB would’ve had a longer leash than Carroll. I don’t think you can argue that TB not only accelerated our rebuild but made us the elite team in the league.

But I do think that given how strong our defense became in those early years that if we replace TB with your average starting qb I think we are at least competitive and not worse than the original 5-11 2000 squad.

 

[Uptown]

Honestly, people trashing Belichick need to leave the fanbase. It's one thing to say Brady was more important than Bill, it's another to repeat the same old Cleveland Browns nonsense about Bill year after year. Brady is on record as saying Belichick is the GOAT coach - that should be enough for us. You would think after 6 super bowls that people would give him a chance to build another dynasty...

Bruh, if you don’t get out of here with that coherent judiciousness!

 

[Triumph]