Gostkowski

[sb1]

There was no more risk for Brady on this play than on any other. Remember how on trick plays there are always options and looks that need to be there for it to be executed ? If someone stayed with Brady the pass would have never gone there but would have been either a throw away or simply a rush attempt by Dola.

Brady getting crushed by a tackler would not have happened by design.

But it doesn't even have to happen that way. He was doing something he wasn't trained to do and he is 40. What if he lands on his ankle awkwardly lunging to catch that, it would have been a catastrophe. I've seen that happen before. Also if someone really did stay with Brady they would be stupid not to hit him as hard as they can. Brady also did not have the slide benefit on that play.

Thankfully it didn't happen that way but it was just so unnecessary. I hope I don't see that again.

 

[brdmaverick]

We've won so many big games because of Gostkowski. We've also won so many big games because of Belichick.

I'm completely with you.......as for down to the wire big kicks I think of 2015 at NYG, 2015 at DEN (sure, we lost, but that was a pressure kick to get us to OT). 2012 vs NYJ to force OT

He's been very reliable, but I'm failing to recall anymore pressure packed kicks.

They must be there. PLease help me recall these big kicks and we'll turn this into an appreciation thread.

 

[Antdawg]

I dont think you comprehend and understand how perfect the timing involved needs to be.

Example: in golf, start your takeaway/upswing while a golf ball is being thrown to a person right next to the tee, who then needs to place it on the tee as you start your downswing.

No, I completely understand how the botched snap made it a much harder play to complete. No question. But are we suggesting that NFL place kickers miss that kick >75% of the time?

 

[Sciz]

No, I completely understand how the botched snap made it a much harder play to complete. No question. But are we suggesting that NFL place kickers miss that kick >75% of the time?

NFL kickers usually don’t get their foot on the ball at all in that situation. The holder typically picks it up and runs if anything goes wrong with the timing.

 

[luuked]

He was doing something he wasn't trained to do and he is 40.

This play has been practice and in the playbook at the very least since 2015 because that is when we used it last against the very same team. They didn't draw this up on the sideline.

I understand why some are critical of it being called at that point in time but as with all trick plays it is all based on certain looks that the defense shows. Lets not pretend that this was the only call Brady got before the snap. As with that fake punt where Ebner got injured earlier in the season there was no guarantee that they would get the same favorable look again at any point in the game.

People say Josh got cute on it. I disagree, I think he trusted the work they put in pregame in finding favorable matchups and the only thing that didn't work here was the execution.

 

[luuked]

No, I completely understand how the botched snap made it a much harder play to complete. No question. But are we suggesting that NFL place kickers miss that kick >75% of the time?

On a snap botched to that degree ? I would say the conversion rate is somewhere akin to Hail Marys...

 

[RobertWeathers]

No, I completely understand how the botched snap made it a much harder play to complete. No question. But are we suggesting that NFL place kickers miss that kick >75% of the time?

I don't follow the question.

It was a botched snap. All bets are off at that point.

Quite frankly the fact that he almost made it and got it as close as he did was commendable.

 

[sb1]

This play has been practice and in the playbook at the very least since 2015 because that is when we used it last against the very same team. They didn't draw this up on the sideline.

I understand why some are critical of it being called at that point in time but as with all trick plays it is all based on certain looks that the defense shows. Lets not pretend that this was the only call Brady got before the snap. As with that fake punt where Ebner got injured earlier in the season there was no guarantee that they would get the same favorable look again at any point in the game.

People say Josh got cute on it. I disagree, I think he trusted the work they put in pregame in finding favorable matchups and the only thing that didn't work here was the execution.

I get that... but I just don't want any play where my 40+ year old QB has to catch passes in the playbook. You have the GOAT, you don't need the bag of tricks.

 

[luuked]

I get that... but I just don't want any play where my 40+ year old QB has to catch passes in the playbook. You have the GOAT, you don't need the bag of tricks.

I understand your point of view. Personally I thought his scramble at the end of the first half was a much more dangerous situation than the trick play could have ever been. But yeah minimizing risk on Brady should really be a top priority..

 

[mosslost]

Again, can we ban people with less than 200 posts from making new threads?

No. We can't.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

If you watch the replay, he has plenty of time to get off a kick that is good from 26 yards. The snap was botched, which makes the kick harder, but the kick could have and should have been easily made. That's the point. Nobody is doubting that it wasn't made harder by the snap. If you watch the replay, he clearly has plenty of time to make a decent kick. In fact, his kick hits the cross bar which shows you just how close he was to making it. Had plenty of time to get it off and make it good. The PAT was obviously hangover from the missed FG.

You realize that Gostkowski kicked the ball from a virtual standstill, right? As opposed to the usual 3 or so yard running start he (and all kickers) usually take. What did you want him to do -- back up, and then start his 3 yard running start again? If he could have pulled that off, I think you'll have a fan base that would have a legitimate excuse to be screaming MOAR PASS RUSH all offseason....

 

[Antdawg]

I don't follow the question.

It was a botched snap. All bets are off at that point.

Not sure I agree with such a generalization. All botched snaps aren't equal. Allen actually did a pretty good job of recovering it and getting the ball down, giving Gost plenty of time to make a decent kick. Someone else suggested Allen should have taken off with the ball. No chance. It was an errant snap, bobbled (if you even want to call it that) for a split second and then placed into position for the kick. Yes, timing was off. But, I've seen plenty kickers complete that kick from 26 yards out too. So no chance, if I'm Allen, do I take off with that ball.

I'm not trying to kill Gostkowski here. I'm just pointing out, it was a pivotal point in the game.

 

[ScottishPatriots]

He's missed an XP in 5 of his last 7 playoff games.

He's one of the best in the league but demons from Denver still exist come playoff time.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Not sure I agree with such a generalization. All botched snaps aren't equal.

Agree. There are varying level of "botched-ness" .

Allen actually did a pretty good job of recovering it and getting the ball down, giving Gost plenty of time to make a decent kick.

I don't agree. Once Gost needed to slow down his approach that totally f-ed up his timing. See golf analogy.

Someone else suggested Allen should have taken off with the ball. No chance. It was an errant snap, bobbled (if you even want to call it that) for a split second and then placed into position for the kick. Yes, timing was off. But, I've seen plenty kickers complete that kick from 26 yards out too. So no chance, if I'm Allen, do I take off with that ball.

Ugh. It was dicey. If he took off with it would have been damned if you do, damned if you don't decision...

I'm not trying to kill Gostkowski here. I'm just pointing out, it was a pivotal point in the game.

It's all good. Worth exploring.

 

[Snooky97]

Gosts kicking wasn’t the issue in the Super Bowl, with people saying we should get rid of him, okay that’s fine.. who are you going to replace him with?

The issue was the defence

 

[Antdawg]

Gosts kicking wasn’t the issue in the Super Bowl, with people saying we should get rid of him, okay that’s fine.. who are you going to replace him with?

The issue was the defence

In a game where the Eagles scored two TD's on calls we may have seen overturned 8 weeks ago, every missed opportunity is worth examining. The defense playing lousy goes without saying. But frankly, you could say the Eagles D played lousier and they're supposed to be better.

 

[signbabybrady]

Yeah because kickers are so easy to draft. Just go ask the Bucs or the Chargers.

Jesus we have one of the best kickers in the league who got screwed by his snapper and holder twice in a game and people are asking for his head.

Maybe in the regular season but in the playoffs he can't even be counted on to even hit an extra point.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

But it doesn't even have to happen that way. He was doing something he wasn't trained to do and he is 40. What if he lands on his ankle awkwardly lunging to catch that, it would have been a catastrophe. I've seen that happen before. Also if someone really did stay with Brady they would be stupid not to hit him as hard as they can. Brady also did not have the slide benefit on that play.

1) You'll notice he in fact didn't lunge.
2) There was no one within yards of him.
3) If there was anyone near him Amendola would have either thrown it away or tucked in and tried to run for whatever he could.

It was a very low risk to Brady play with a big potential payoff. If he caught it (and I bet he catches that 8 out of 10 times) it's a 20 yard play.

EDITED TO ADD:
4) And if there was someone near Brady and Amendola threw it anyways, I'm sure Brady was coached to just pull up before the defender got anywhere within hitting range and just let the ball fall incomplete.

 

[Antdawg]

1) You'll notice he in fact didn't lunge.
2) There was no one within yards of him.
3) If there was anyone near him Amendola would have either thrown it away or tucked in and tried to run for whatever he could.

It was a very low risk to Brady play with a big potential payoff. If he caught it (and I bet he catches that 8 out of 10 times) it's a 20 yard play.

Agree on all.

 

[luuked]

Allen actually did a pretty good job of recovering it and getting the ball down, giving Gost plenty of time to make a decent kick.

What the hell are you talking about ? Just because the ball ended up in the right spot it doesnt automatically follow that Ghost was in the right point in his entire motion and timing to hit the ball properly.

This is the same stupid argument people make when Brady makes a suboptimal throw and then a replay shows a different receiver running totally open without any concern for the timing of his progressions.

The timing on kicking is crucial and even the slightest bobble can **** it up. Letting the snap slip through your hands, fumbling around to find the ball and then putting it where it should have been about a second ago is definitely not a recipe for success.