Glad Asante Samuel holds no grudges...

[pao]

Re: Glad Assante Samual holds no grudges...

easy guys

that catch was off his fingertips. It isn't like he had a for sure thing that anybody would get off their couch and come down with

Imo dude didn't time his jump right. If he did it would have been a catch even I could make.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Re: Glad Assante Samual holds no grudges...

Asante does not have enough impact on a team to warrant the top of the line pay he makes. He is a good CB, but overpaying so much for a good CB would be a disservice to the rest of the team.

PHI is 18th in comp% against this season, they were 2nd last year.

Pats were 12th in 07, 11th in 08 and 4th this year.

I think you highly overvalue Samuel's impact on a secondary's performance. His INTs are absolutely useful, but not nearly worth the money he's making because of those numbers.

Looks like we disagree...and, as i said, i wasn't trying to change anyone's mind, so you didn't have to present any stats to defend your view. However, since you did...

As someone who spends a lot of time with statistics, I believe in the old adage that "There are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics."

The only Patriots' Completions Against Percentage Stats I'm interested in are those that we put up against elite QB's like Manning and Brees. I assume that a Belichick D can hold its own against the average or above average NFL QB.

To me, Asante was and is potentially a difference maker against the best QB's in the league.

Manning completed 64% of his passes against us this year, Brees 78%.

Overall, according to ESPN, which indeed puts us at #4 in that category as you observe, the Pats "Completion Against" Percent is 56.8%.

Manning and Brees combined completed 68.7% of the passes they threw against us (46 of 67--Manning went 28 of 44 or 64% and Brees went 18 of 23 or 78%). If you take those two out, our D held the other teams we played to a 45.9% completion rate.

So, what is the overall "Completion Against Percentage" statistic worth? Not much, IMO.

A closer look says we did fine against the Sanchize and whoever was coughing it up for the Panthers, Bucs, Fins, Bills and Titans when we played them, but couldn't stop the likes of Brees and Manning--Ryan completed 61% and Flacco completed 51%, so the rest of those guys were pretty bad.

The Asante argument is an old one out here and one on which I don't expect to change anyone's mind. The stats you present don't change mine, as I feel Asante would help us against the best QB's. You disagree. That's fine.

Who knows? It's purely hypothetical now and really doesn't matter which one of us is more right or more wrong.

 

[Bledsoe11]

Re: Glad Assante Samual holds no grudges...

Nice catch in the Super Bowl ***ante.

Irony is, AD would've had a very good shot to win MVP of that game had Asante made that catch. He was the best player on defense that night, which probably says something itself.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Glad Assante Samual holds no grudges...

...
The Asante argument is an old one out here and one on which I don't expect to change anyone's mind. The stats you present don't change mine, as I feel Asante would help us against the best QB's. You disagree. That's fine.

Who knows? It's purely hypothetical now and really doesn't matter which one of us is more right or more wrong.

All fair points. I don't disagree that Asante would help us out, I disagree that he is worth the amount of money he makes for the amount of help he would provide.

Peyton completed 55% against us in 06, 59% in 07, 72% in 08, 64% in 09. It seems to support your hypothesis although obviously there's a whole lot more to it than just Samuel.

I still don't believe his value to the team is worth the salary he commanded. That is not to say that he would have no value to the team as a player, but taking everything into account I think letting him walk was the right move.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Glad Assante Samual holds no grudges...

Why be so pedantic. It's a figure of speech. I'm sure Belichick would not fine them if they are there at 7:59. People say that because it's the way things work. You need to be there at 7:55 if the meeting starts at 8.

Why? Because everyone's watch is a minute or two off (even my computer's time lags). Because you need to use the urinal right before the meeting, especially in the morning after your second cup of joe. Because you need to grab a bottle of water, etc.

Coughlin did fine players for not being early enough.

Coughlin Time is not that severe. He had all the clocks in the locker room and meeting rooms set five minutes fast. He expects his players to be five minutes early for every meeting. In the preseason, he fined at least four players $500 to $1,000 because they showed up early, but not early enough. The N.F.L. Players Association is appealing the fines.

PRO FOOTBALL; Coughlin's Quirks Have Place in the N.F.L. - New York Times

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Glad Assante Samual holds no grudges...

I typically see you as a sensible person but this just seems to be naive. I can an undertand that you wish your coach was all those things, but the reality he is not. Just like I wish my wife was a supermodel who made millions, the reality is she isn't and I have to come to grips with that. BB will be the coach of the Patriots for the forseeable future. He's earned that by being one of the top coaches for nearly a decade. He is not going anywhere. He is also not going to change. He is who he is and he will run his ship the way he always has. And why shouldn't he? He's had tremendous success doing it like that. Good or bad, right or wrong, this is the stuff he does. It isn't going to change. As such, if it bothers you that badly, you really have two choices: Come to grips with the reality of who the coach is or root for a team with a coach that has those qualities you want. Because the constant nitpicking about these little things is like the little kid that just received the most wonderful Christmas present but is still upset because he wanted it in blue.

Your post falls back on the old "go elsewhere" maneuver, which makes no sense at all, in context.

The thing is, I'd like Belichick to be that coach. He's got a tremendous head for the game, and as close to a lifetime pass as any coach is going to get.

I've said repeatedly that Belichick is the best coach in football. That doesn't mean that there aren't areas where he could improve, in my estimation and in the estimation of others. There's nothing naive about that, at all. "We can all do a better job", and all that.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Glad Assante Samual holds no grudges...

Your post falls back on the old "go elsewhere" maneuver, which makes no sense at all, in context.



I've said repeatedly that Belichick is the best coach in football. That doesn't mean that there aren't areas where he could improve, in my estimation and in the estimation of others. There's nothing naive about that, at all. "We can all do a better job", and all that.

I think his main point was if you know these things about BB, why nitpick about every single example of him doing something that you disagree with but know is part of who he is and will never change. At least that's what I got out of his post.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Re: Glad Assante Samual holds no grudges...

All fair points. I don't disagree that Asante would help us out, I disagree that he is worth the amount of money he makes for the amount of help he would provide.

Peyton completed 55% against us in 06, 59% in 07, 72% in 08, 64% in 09. It seems to support your hypothesis although obviously there's a whole lot more to it than just Samuel.

I still don't believe his value to the team is worth the salary he commanded. That is not to say that he would have no value to the team as a player, but taking everything into account I think letting him walk was the right move.

thanks for your fair minded approach...one of the things i like about this board when we get into a serious discussion. you could just as well be right as i am...it's just the view that makes sense based on my observations...

good discussion.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Glad Assante Samual holds no grudges...

Looks like we disagree...and, as i said, i wasn't trying to change anyone's mind, so you didn't have to present any stats to defend your view. However, since you did...

As someone who spends a lot of time with statistics, I believe in the old adage that "There are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics."

The only Patriots' Completions Against Percentage Stats I'm interested in are those that we put up against elite QB's like Manning and Brees. I assume that a Belichick D can hold its own against the average or above average NFL QB.

To me, Asante was and is potentially a difference maker against the best QB's in the league.

Manning completed 64% of his passes against us this year, Brees 78%.

Overall, according to ESPN, which indeed puts us at #4 in that category as you observe, the Pats "Completion Against" Percent is 56.8%.

Manning and Brees combined completed 68.7% of the passes they threw against us (46 of 67--Manning went 28 of 44 or 64% and Brees went 18 of 23 or 78%). If you take those two out, our D held the other teams we played to a 45.9% completion rate.

So, what is the overall "Completion Against Percentage" statistic worth? Not much, IMO.

A closer look says we did fine against the Sanchize and whoever was coughing it up for the Panthers, Bucs, Fins, Bills and Titans when we played them, but couldn't stop the likes of Brees and Manning--Ryan completed 61% and Flacco completed 51%, so the rest of those guys were pretty bad.

The Asante argument is an old one out here and one on which I don't expect to change anyone's mind. The stats you present don't change mine, as I feel Asante would help us against the best QB's. You disagree. That's fine.

Who knows? It's purely hypothetical now and really doesn't matter which one of us is more right or more wrong.

Asante made his INTS in the regular season against mostly the dregs of the league. Still does. He has one INT against Manning in the post season. He's never picked Brees or Flacco although he got Ryan once as a rookie...

In his 10 INT season in 2006, half of his picks came off of Rex Grossman and Daunte Culpepper. You don't want to discuss his 2005 season. Or for that matter what came before it save to say he was fortunate to be in NE. He generally performed well in the post season, although it wasn't ever enough to tip the balance in any post season. In SB 42 he gave up a TD, blew his assignment on Tyree, and let a game ending pick sail right through his hands. Other than that he was spectacular...covering a guy who can't find work since his heroics in that one game.

So far for the Iggles he has 11 INTS in two seasons. More than half of those have come off such immortals as one of the Josh's in Tampa - twice, Jason Campbell - twice, Jake Delhomme, JaMarcus Russell and whoever drew the short straw in Cleveland late last season. He's also been gifted of late by Eli and Romo and Ben...

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Re: Glad Assante Samual holds no grudges...

Asante made his INTS in the regular season against mostly the dregs of the league. Still does. He has one INT against Manning in the post season. He's never picked Brees or Flacco although he got Ryan once as a rookie...

In his 10 INT season in 2006, half of his picks came off of Rex Grossman and Daunte Culpepper. You don't want to discuss his 2005 season. Or for that matter what came before it save to say he was fortunate to be in NE. He generally performed well in the post season, although it wasn't ever enough to tip the balance in any post season. In SB 42 he gave up a TD, blew his assignment on Tyree, and let a game ending pick sail right through his hands. Other than that he was spectacular...covering a guy who can't find work since his heroics in that one game.

So far for the Iggles he has 11 INTS in two seasons. More than half of those have come off such immortals as one of the Josh's in Tampa - twice, Jason Campbell - twice, Jake Delhomme, JaMarcus Russell and whoever drew the short straw in Cleveland late last season. He's also been gifted of late by Eli and Romo and Ben...

as i said in my post, Asante is a topic that we've discussed out here until the cows come home. some see it one way, others see it another way. i'm not trying to change any minds almost four years after the fact. that's just how i see it and you're as entitled to your own view, which might or might not have more merit than mine.

 

[RayClay]

I liked Asante as a 4th rounder he's a smooth, fluid corner. No way would i have given him the contract he got. good luck.

Bodden is a better cornerback.

Butler has good athletic abilities for the position if he improves.

 

[FadedIdea]

boddens is good. but better than samuel? Ive yet to see that here only once against a rookie qb having a very bad day

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

The last time I cared about anything Samuel was doing was when he let a ball go right through his arms for a TD in the SB and then when he smiled and laughed after dropping what should have been a championship clinching INT just before the Tyree miracle.

So, the dude's embarrassed, but like many children won't own up to his errors - showboating by trying to INT the TD catch and by nervously smiling and shaking his head after dropping said sure thing INT later. Instead, like children, he hates on the nearest authority figure as if that will clear him.

Or, even worse, the dude doesn't think he blew it in the SB and actually does hate on BB for not picking up his ticket after Samuel came to believe he was a star.

Asante and his NBA attitudes left town right on time for me...