Gasp, With No Reasonable Tradedown Or Out, Belichick Drafts

[mgteich]

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(That said, I think if the scenario in the OP presents itself and only 4 tackles are taken when they select at #23, tackle might be the reason some enterprising team like the Bengals is willing to jump up and deal with the Patriots. .

If only 4 OT's are chosen before 23, I also think that there would trade partners. There are probably 3 more OT's who folks might target.

 

[primetime]

If only 4 OT's are chosen before 23, I also think that there would trade partners. There are probably 3 more OT's who folks might target.

Yeah, I think the scenario you present here is not a perfect one for trading back (that would be if one of the top 4 quarterbacks is still available and the Patriots aren't interested in) but having Chaisson and all of the 'next four' tackles on the board makes it likely some team would be interested in moving up. I really like Chaisson and a couple of those tackles, but lack of a 2nd rounder means additional draft capital is probably the smarter bet.

 

[fxmallon]

You can be sure that the 22 picked prior to 23, will never materialize that way. Why? Because the draft is never that predictable. Nearly always the problem is too many good choices rather than none--guys always fall, always. Then we're all pumped and half of us are let down by the pick we do make. But the real point is that yes, someone will offer value for us at 23 because someone's going to fall. The only question is: will it be enough to give up on our pick.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

I think the pick will be Kenneth Murray, I think he will drop to us at 23 due to all the WR and OT picks with the usual defenders picked before Murray. Perfect KVN replacement, maybe even more explosive.

Then I pray they use all three 3rds on TEs & WRs. 2 TEs and an explosive WR.

we have the least talented offense in the nfl and you want to draft defense in round 1

 

[DropKickFlutie]

???

Yes, this is a WR heavy draft with lots of reasonable prospects in the top 125 players. The question is how much better one of the "top" WR's is than some in the 2nd or even the 3rd. Lots of folks have 3 "top" WRs: Judy, Lamb and Ruggs.

Just because this draft has lots of NFL quality WR's doesn't mean that the value is at 23; 63 may be almost as good, or even 83.

A theory/flaw I have with the Pats' value grouping draft philosphy is the last couple guys in their group are way worse than the first couple guys. This is why they keep F'ing up second round picks (last guy in their tier1 group) compared to taking the first position player of that group with their first pick (Gronk, Wilfork, McCourty, Hightower, Chung, etc)

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

we have the least talented offense in the nfl and you want to draft defense in round 1

Then he says he wants offense with the next 3 picks, in a deep wr class.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Do you read the Athletic? Wondering about your take on their take on the OL, which is quite extensive. McGinn’s NFL Draft Series: Scouts on top offensive linemen...

@BaconGrundleCandy, too.

Here's a tidbit about the OT's: “There’s no consensus with these guys,” an NFC personnel director said. “We have different orders between scouts, coaches. It’s kind of your flavor. You probably will get six tackles (in the first round) but there’s only four you feel good about. Then it falls off.”

I like the Athletic. They have a few really good guys over there.

Generally agree.
I really like the T group and big 4. I see a lil more potential than the article let's on. You might not have HOF potential but those 4 got the goods. After that guys like Jones, Jackson etc are a lot better than developmental types. There are 7-8 guys that could be really good with a little luck.

IOL is shaky. Probably 4-5 guys you feel really good about and then it's more of a take your pick like the article alluded to. Lots of potential G to C converts. Definitely not nearly as strong or deep as the T group.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

What if bb trades up to number 15 and takes kinlaw.
Kinlaw is an excellent run defender and can rush the passer.
He is the best 3-4 de in the draft and he can also excel as a 4-3 defensive tackle.

 

[catent]

If Kinlaw is there at 23 you take him without a second of hesitation.

 

[mgteich]

What if bb trades up to number 15 and takes kinlaw.
Kinlaw is an excellent run defender and can rush the passer.
He is the best 3-4 de in the draft and he can also excel as a 4-3 defensive tackle.

To restate your idea: How would we feel if Belichick trades our 23 and top two thirds to move up to 15 or 16 to draft Kinlaw?

I like Kinlaw a lot, but I'm not sure that he is worth three picks. HOWEVER, I would be fine if Belichick made the deal. I would then expect him to be trading for a vet LB or two, as he often does.

 

[Ivan]

I think the pick will be Kenneth Murray, I think he will drop to us at 23 due to all the WR and OT picks with the usual defenders picked before Murray. Perfect KVN replacement, maybe even more explosive.

Then I pray they use all three 3rds on TEs & WRs. 2 TEs and an explosive WR.

I want them to take Murray as well, he would be a ten year leader in the middle of their defense. I doubt he will be there, but he’s at the top of my list.

 

[scott99]

we have the least talented offense in the nfl and you want to draft defense in round 1

I don’t WANT that, but I feel that’s what will happen. IF that happens, there’s still great offensive talent to be had in the 3rd round, or if need be, trade up to the second round since they have three 3rd round picks.

My PREFERENCE is they take Denzel Mims or Jalen Reagor in the first round. Then TE, WR, TE in the 3rd round. But considering they lost KVN and Collins at LB (AND Elandon Roberts), you’d have to think Belichick might be leaning in the defensive direction in the 1st round. If they take Murray (explosive defensive player), I hope they go TE, WR, TE in the 3rd round, maybe even an offensive player in the 4th as well.

By the way, we had the SEVENTH best offense in the NFL last year, so I wouldn’t say we have the least talented offense in the NFL. Let’s see how they are used this year. A full and healthy season from Harry could be huge.

 

[BigMike]

Don't you think Bill is going to trade out of the 1st though?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

To restate your idea: How would we feel if Belichick trades our 23 and top two thirds to move up to 15 or 16 to draft Kinlaw?

I like Kinlaw a lot, but I'm not sure that he is worth three picks. HOWEVER, I would be fine if Belichick made the deal. I would then expect him to be trading for a vet LB or two, as he often does.

I was thinking we trade 23 and a 2021 second round pick for 15.

Plan b is to trade down from 23, for a second and third.

If we stay at 23 then there are only two guys that make sense. Murray, if bb thinks he can tackle, or jones, who after a red shirt year will be a solid starter opposite Wynn!

 

[scott99]

Don't you think Bill is going to trade out of the 1st though?

I hope not, too much top notch talent available at 23. It’s equivalent to trading a good steak for two POSSIBLY good burgers. At 23, you should get someone who’s much better than the player we get at 30 or 37. Stay at 23 and take a stud. We have THREE 3rd round picks, if you need to trade up, you have the ammo. TRADE UP NOT DOWN ! Stop with this nonsense. Just don’t trade up for a DB lol.

 

[scott99]

I was thinking we trade 23 and a 2021 second round pick for 15.

Plan b is to trade down from 23, for a second and third.

If we stay at 23 then there are only two guys that make sense. Murray, if bb thinks he can tackle, or jones, who after a red shirt year will be a solid starter opposite Wynn!

There should be a ****-ton of EXCELLENT prospects at 23. With the run of Olinemen, QBs and WRs, someone excellent should be available at 23, quite possibly even an excellent receiver or even QB (Love could fall to 23).

We need to stop trading out of the 1st round, it never works. We always seem to miss out on top notch talent. But Belichick always becomes Trader Bill during the draft, so you know he’s gonna be all over the place during the draft. We have 4 picks in the top 100, you just know he’s gonna pick a guard and DB, and then wind up with twelve 6th round picks and trade them for a 5th and a 2nd in 2037. Oh yeah, and only the guard and DB to show for in the first 100 picks in the 2020 draft.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

BB will go with the flow. He won't trade down or up. He'll go with Stidham, like he did with Brady, and let the chips fall where they may.

There are no "big plays" here.

There is a team. There is a Coach. There is a QB.

Any questions? if so, you can go and root for the Colts, Jets, Falcons, Dolphins or another half a dozen teams that thought they were smarter over the last 20 years.

For now, I'm with the hooded one and the Krafts. Bale if you want. The door is open and the parachutes are (hopefully) working.

 

[scott99]

BB will go with the flow. He won't trade down or up. He'll go with Stidham, like he did with Brady, and let the chips fall where they may.

There are no "big plays" here.

There is a team. There is a Coach. There is a QB.

Any questions? if so, you can go and root for the Colts, Jets, Falcons, Dolphins or another half a dozen teams that thought they were smarter over the last 20 years.

For now, I'm with the hooded one and the Krafts. Bail if you want. The door is open and the parachutes are (hopefully) working.

Nobody is bailing. We all root for the Pats. There is no harm in hoping GOOD talent is added to an anemic offense that runs best when they have TWO pass catching TEs and it wouldn’t hurt to have a speed receiver.

That being said, I’ll be rooting heavily for the Pats in 2020 like I have been since 1975.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Nobody is bailing. We all root for the Pats. There is no harm in hoping GOOD talent is added to an anemic offense that runs best when they have TWO pass catching TEs and it wouldn’t hurt to have a speed receiver.

That being said, I’ll be rooting heavily for the Pats in 2020 like I have been since 1975.

Respect.
If Stidham's the guy, it's a quick build.
If he isn't...well, we'll have to be patient and BB will be on his boat when the HOF committee comes knocking.
But, well said.
Thank you.

 

[rochrist]

There should be a ****-ton of EXCELLENT prospects at 23. With the run of Olinemen, QBs and WRs, someone excellent should be available at 23, quite possibly even an excellent receiver or even QB (Love could fall to 23).

We need to stop trading out of the 1st round, it never works. We always seem to miss out on top notch talent. But Belichick always becomes Trader Bill during the draft, so you know he’s gonna be all over the place during the draft. We have 4 picks in the top 100, you just know he’s gonna pick a guard and DB, and then wind up with twelve 6th round picks and trade them for a 5th and a 2nd in 2037. Oh yeah, and only the guard and DB to show for in the first 100 picks in the 2020 draft.

However did he manage to accumulate 8 SB rings.