Garrard knee down on first JAGS TD

[BradyToMoss]

I agree I was shocked that he didn't challenge it. He had everything to gain and really not a heck of alot to lose. It was a no brainer. Given the same situation, I'm sure BB himself will tell you that he would throw the flag out ASAP. After hearing his take on it on EEI, one had the impression that he knew he screwed that up by not atleast having it looked at.

It kind of gave me flashbacks to last years AFCCG, when we had the timeouts to use with like 1:58 on the clock and PM and the Colts literally just stood there and watched the clock tick down to the last absolute second before running that Addai dive for the game winner. I was shocked that BB, like I think most coaches should have and would have done, didn't call a timeout to leave Tom as much time as he needed to answer the Colt TD. I can remember screaming for him to call a timeout, the camera actually looked over at him at one point if you remember as the precious seconds were just ticking away and he held on to the timeouts, I was shocked. I mean he cost Tom a full minute, which as we know, in the NFL is an eternity, to bring the team back. It was clock mismanagment to the nth degree.

 

[Maroney TD]

Does anyone have a freeze frame of the throw? I distinctly remember it being pretty obvious but maybe that was just me being a homer. I would really like to see a picture of it at the point of contact but I can't seem to find one online.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

I agree I was shocked that he didn't challenge it. He had everything to gain and really not a heck of alot to lose. It was a no brainer.

I think that early in the game, giving up that challenge is a big deal, because you only get 2. Still, I agree overall that with it being a 4 point issue, it was huge and worth it.

 

[Amnorix]

Down by shin also counts as down. Doesn't have to be "knee".

I thought he was clearyl down, but as others have said, BB on 'EEI indicated that they just didn't get a good enough look fast enought to get word to him on the sideline to challenge.

 

[Amnorix]

it was an awesome play by Garrard, it was a td. This is what the NFL has become, almost everything is re viewable now, its killing the game. If Brady made that same pass and it was over ruled in a challenge as no TD I would be complete BS. The guy was clearly getting sacked but managed to get off an excellent pass before being brought down, next time sack his arse so he cant get the pass off.

WTF? He did NOT manage to get off the excellent pass "before being brought down" because he WAS down.

And if it happened to Brady, I'd say get the pass off a nanosecond sooner so you're not sacked.

 

[Amnorix]

I think that early in the game, giving up that challenge is a big deal, because you only get 2. Still, I agree overall that with it being a 4 point issue, it was huge and worth it.

Belichick has spoken a few times on 'EEI about when to use and not use the challenge. You keep them in your pocket, even if you're probably/definitely right, if it's not important. As the importance of hte play climbs, then the probability of your winning the challenge goes down, in terms of when you throw the flag.

On a 3rd down, TD scoring play from the 7 or whatever it was, I think if he'd heard early enough that it was even a 25 or so percent chance of overturning, then he would've thrown the red flag. He didn't hear it early enough.

 

[tombonneau]

Down by shin also counts as down. Doesn't have to be "knee".

I thought he was clearyl down, but as others have said, BB on 'EEI indicated that they just didn't get a good enough look fast enought to get word to him on the sideline to challenge.

Right. I'm almost 100% positive an ankle=knee. I seem to recall a play with a RB in a pile squirming to get out, and the ankle hits the ground, but then the runner rights himself and keeps going.

It was reviewed (or maybe called on the field) that the runner was down bc his ankle hit the ground.

Same thing with the wrist (or elbow?) I believe ...

 

[Mungo]

WTF? He did NOT manage to get off the excellent pass "before being brought down" because he WAS down.

And if it happened to Brady, I'd say get the pass off a nanosecond sooner so you're not sacked.

so it wasnt a frozen rope he threw, it still was a pretty damn good athletic play which ended up as a TD. Ya, ok i'm sure thats exactly what you would have said if that happened to Brady and the TD was taken away on the challenge.

 

[primetime]

Well, down by shin equals down by knee because it's nearly impossible to be down by your shin and not by your knee. Try it. Unless you're like made of Play-Doh or something, good luck having your knee of the ground and not your shin.

 

[PantsB]

Well, down by shin equals down by knee because it's nearly impossible to be down by your shin and not by your knee. Try it. Unless you're like made of Play-Doh or something, good luck having your knee of the ground and not your shin.

But its not impossible to be down by calf, which is what happened here. Its irrelevant because when his knee hit the ball still wasn't out of his hand but...

 

[FrontSeven]

it should have been a no brainer.

No brainer? Do you mean for you, the TV viewer, or Bill, the on-field viewer? The play was close - very, very close. You don't throw away timeouts for close plays that need to be overturned without getting the word from the booth.

What I just said is the no brainer.

 

[Maroney TD]

so it wasnt a frozen rope he threw, it still was a pretty damn good athletic play which ended up as a TD. Ya, ok i'm sure thats exactly what you would have said if that happened to Brady and the TD was taken away on the challenge.

It doesn't really matter what we would think if it was Brady because it wasn't. The play was called wrong.

No brainer? Do you mean for you, the TV viewer, or Bill, the on-field viewer? The play was close - very, very close. You don't throw away timeouts for close plays that need to be overturned without getting the word from the booth.

What I just said is the no brainer.

With it being 3rd down it pretty much is a swing of 4 points if overturned. Its the 1Q so the timeout isn't a big deal. Its not a no brainer because you don't just waste challenges but it was pretty obvious.

 

[groundgame]

No brainer? Do you mean for you, the TV viewer, or Bill, the on-field viewer? The play was close - very, very close. You don't throw away timeouts for close plays that need to be overturned without getting the word from the booth.

What I just said is the no brainer.

As the coach watching the play on the field, and with a headset communication to your own booth upstairs, you do throw away a timeout on a third down TD pass in the opening drive of the game, on an extremely close play that, upon review, IMO, had to be overturned based on video evidence.

 

[FloridaPatsFan]

Whenever you see a team hurry to the line of scrimmage after a questionable play, you would think that they aren't too convinced either that the refs got the call right. Its as though they know they got away with one.

If its in the 1st half, why not throw the red flag? Its not like teams use thier full 3 time outs in the 1st half anyway. Not too much to lose, even if you do lose the challenge is the way I see it.

 

[captain stone]

Was meaning to bring this up--agreed the flag should have been thrown, way too close not to try, particularly in the first half when timeouts aren't quite as vital. I was actually rewinding the tivo to look at it frame by frame, and was shocked when it wasn't being looked at.

They didn't handle the kickoff right against Baltimore either, correct? Think they could have set it up where Baltimore got the ball on their own five yard line. BB making mistakes, wow. It's like God making a mistake.

You are correct, sir...in both Jax and Baltimore cases.

If Garrard's pass happened on 1st or 2nd down, you do not challenge. But because the pass happened on 3rd down, and you can take at least 4 points off the board, you must challenge the call. The only reason that I would hesitate, is because the play happened during the first quarter, during the first drive of the game.

 

[VJCPatriot]

To me, in real time it looked like a TD. Until I saw the frame-by-frame, I couldn't tell. Unless the refs can use a frame by frame, and I think they can, it would be inconclusive. He was down, but it wasn't a bad call.

The wrong call is always a "bad call." That's what challenges are for.
I thought BB also should have challenged, but it didn't cost us the game, so it's not really something you have to agonize over.