Gaffney Signed!!

[RobertWeathers]

You betcha, he sure had. In his career with Buffalo Antowain put up a whopping 3.8 career yards per carry. 3.8! While being only a modest factor as a receiver out of the backfield, and showing off speed that made BJGE look zippy.

I think the fact of the Lombardis has seriously clouded your memory of the player. The plain fact is that Shonn Greene has performed better for the Jets than Antowain Smith did for the Bills.

Rubbish.

A. Smith was a better RB than BJGE and Maroney. Maybe Green. We'll see how the kid continues to develop.

The Bills had a terrible, terrible o-line for Smith to average 1000 yds in his first two seasons (like here) was an accomplishment.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeah, Maroney was a real stud.

His 2.57 yac in Super Bowl 42 (a fact you ignore) was the stuff legends are made of. New York Giants vs. New England Patriots - February 3rd, 2008 - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Maroney had proven nothing.

He was a 1st round pick, young and rumored to be this great RB. Dillon wasnt done as you say at all unless you want to call 4.1 yac, 13 TDs and 816 yards done. Corey Dillon NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

But, thank you for bringing this up and making my argument. Nice work!

Maroney was an unknown replacing a known entity in Dillon. How did that work out when Brady struggled in SB42? Did Maroney show up? Will Ridley and Vereen show up?

You held Smith up as a standard bearer. Antoine Smith averaged better than 4 yards per carry once in his entire career, and that was as a rookie in 1997. Smith ran for 3.5 ypc in 2003, and was barely over 3ypc in that year's Super Bowl. In the 2003 playoffs, Smith totaled 64 carries for 252 yards, for 3.9ypc.

In 2006, Maroney passed Dillon as the Patriots RB going forward, averaging 4.3 ypc on 175 carries in 14 games, compared to Dillon's 4.1 ypc on 199 carries in 16 games. In 2007, Maroney was the team's RB1, and averaged 4.5 ypc on 185 carries in 13 games. In the 2007 playoffs, Maroney totaled 61 carries for 280 yards, for 4.6 ypc, and was instrumental in the Patriots beating the Chargers in order to get to the Super Bowl.

In other words, your arguments continue to be lousy this offseason.

 

[Deus Irae]

The only thing Hill and Megatron have in common are big, fast WRs and they came from the same school. But the fact they both came from Georgia Tech is irrelevant because they played under two completely different offensive systems. Hill had one more reception during his entire college career than Megatron had his freshman year.

I agree with BradyManny when he says the Jones/McGinest comparisons are more to do with his role with the Pats than any real similarities between the players. I think their build are similar too, but I don't know enough about their playing styles to say they are similar.

I'm not claiming that Hill and Johnson are carbon copies, and I'm not saying the Jets fans are either right or wrong. I'm saying only that all fan bases have a tendency to compare draft picks to great players, often to great players who were once on that same team (Mayo-Bruschi, Spikes-Johnson, etc....) I'll chuckle at it when you go back-and-forth with the Jets fans, but that's the extent of it.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm not claiming that Hill and Johnson are carbon copies, and I'm not saying the Jets fans are either right or wrong. I'm saying only that all fan bases have a tendency to compare draft picks to great players, often to great players who were once on that same team (Mayo-Bruschi, Spikes-Johnson, etc....) I'll chuckle at it when you go back-and-forth with the Jets fans, but that's the extent of it.

I agree with that, but usually there is at least a reason to compare a draft pick to an established stud. For the life of me, I don't see the comparisons between Megatron and Hill other than being big physical WRs and coming from the same school. Even then, Megatron is like 30lbs heavier than Hill.

Hill could become the next Megatron, but looking at his college career I don't see him as the same players.

 

[Kontradiction]

What do you think about Donte Stallworth?

Where would he be best deployed, in your view?

Anyone who's got an opinion on this...please feel free to chime in!!

I feel like he would be almost Uncoverable coming out of the slot on a few selected downs.

 

[patchick]

Smith had NFL seasons that Moroney could only dream of. Smith also had more recieving yards and recieving TDs than Koolaid. A.S. 527 yards 3 TDs - Koolaid 460 yards 1 TD. Moroney was a joke as a receiving threat.

Moroney never rushed for 1000 yards or scored 12 TDs in an NFL season and he never will. Hes the biggest draft bust of the Belichick era.

Huh? I never said a word about Maroney, my post was about Antowain Smith. How does Maroney being lousy make Smith a proven #1 running back for the Patriots heading into 2001?

Rubbish.

A. Smith was a better RB than BJGE and Maroney. Maybe Green. We'll see how the kid continues to develop.

The Bills had a terrible, terrible o-line for Smith to average 1000 yds in his first two seasons (like here) was an accomplishment.

Smith was totally consistent his whole career with 4 different teams. He was a 3.9 ypc career rusher -- seldom much above or below that -- a workmanlike receiver, and fumbled at a slightly above average rate (25 fumbles in 1,784 carries).

Truly though, my point was never to bash him. It was to take issue with the repeated statement that heading into the 2001 season, when Smith had never played a down for the Patriots, the team "knew what they had" in a true #1 running back, and thus were better off at the position than they are today.

 

[Triumph]

You held Smith up as a standard bearer. Antoine Smith averaged better than 4 yards per carry once in his entire career, and that was as a rookie in 1997. Smith ran for 3.5 ypc in 2003, and was barely over 3ypc in that year's Super Bowl. In the 2003 playoffs, Smith totaled 64 carries for 252 yards, for 3.9ypc.

3.9375 yac or 4.0

Talk about splitting peas. Smith was 2 1/4 inches from 4.0 yac.

In 2006, Maroney passed Dillon as the Patriots RB going forward, averaging 4.3 ypc on 175 carries in 14 games, compared to Dillon's 4.1 ypc on 199 carries in 16 games. In 2007, Maroney was the team's RB1, and averaged 4.5 ypc on 185 carries in 13 games. In the 2007 playoffs, Maroney totaled 61 carries for 280 yards, for 4.6 ypc, and was instrumental in the Patriots beating the Chargers in order to get to the Super Bowl.

In other words, your arguments continue to be lousy this offseason.

Your arguments are rich as usual.

A Smiths poor (according to you) 3.0 yac in a Super Bowl the Pats won is relevant, but Maroneys 2 .6 yac is a Super Bowl the Pats lost is not.

Maroneys playoff yards and yac are relevant, he helped the team win, but Smiths 4.3 yac vs Tennessee and 4.5 vs Indy, well those dont count.

Maroney was *****. The Pats needed a stable of RBs on payroll because he couldnt carry workload like Dillon or Smith.

 

[Deus Irae]

3.9375 yac or 4.0

Talk about splitting peas. Smith was 2 1/4 inches from 4.0 yac.

It's called rounding, and it was done at the 10ths, as is usually done. He was 3.9 ypc, not 3.8 or 4.0. Are you really going to try playing this game now? Have you fallen that far?

Your arguments are rich as usual.

A Smiths poor (according to you) 3.0 yac in a Super Bowl the Pats won is relevant, but Maroneys 2 .6 yac is a Super Bowl the Pats lost is not.

Maroneys playoff yards and yac are relevant, he helped the team win, but Smiths 4.3 yac vs Tennessee and 4.5 vs Indy, well those dont count.

Maroney was *****. The Pats needed a stable of RBs on payroll because he couldnt carry workload like Dillon or Smith.

As I recall, I didn't say either was relevant or not relevant. I responded specifically to your original claims.

Yes, they did. And, when the ***** hit the fan they were MIA.

The Pats knew what they had in A Smith and Dillon.

Dillon was money in the bank.
04 - 1635 yds - 12 tds 2004 New England Patriots Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Smith was money in the bank.
01 - 1157 yds - 12 tds 2001 New England Patriots Statistics & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com

In 03 NE had the best defense in the NFL.



When the Pats find out that Ridley and Vereen are not as good, then youve gambled away another season of having Tom Brady.

Maroney was solid in that 2007 postseason. You were wrong, as you have been wrong all offseason. You even knew you were wrong, because you went the "best defense" route to try covering your ass about 2003. And, at the end of this, your most recent post, you decided to even try moving the goalposts by arguing workload.

 

[Sciz]

Doesn't everybody's NFL stats page look like this?

 

[Off The Grid]

I can't believe he's still defending that!!

Hey, I liked Antoine "Lugging a Truck Behind'm" Smith, and remember being pretty pumped when we signed'm...

But ~ God Love'm ~ he was a SLUG.

Doesn't make'm a bad guy, and he did a good job, bashing it into the line and picking up the Hard Yards.

But to suggest that we had a more robust or reliable Running Game with Antoine "Running Through QuickSand" Smith lugging the rock, than we do, now, with 4 young guys who have all given us reason ~ and in two cases: Hard Evidence ~ to believe they're gonna bring some explosiveness to the 2012 Running Game...is kinda silly...dontcha think??

As for "reliable"...

"Reliable" kinda loses all of its value, when you're "reliably" performing at a mediocre or even awful level...dontcha think??

 

[Off The Grid]

What do you think about Donte Stallworth?

Where would he be best deployed, in your view?

Anyone who's got an opinion on this...please feel free to chime in!!

Stallworth's combination of size and speed makes him a pretty prototypical split end, in theory, and I think that's how the Pats primarily used him last time around. The more that I think about it, it seems like Branch is the only outside receiver who doesn't have the the flexibility to line up either way. Maybe that's part of what Belichick's going for- just line up whoever's opposite the quicker corner as split end, and go from there. Incidentally, I also have a bit of a suspicion that Branch may not make it out of training camp. The lack of flexibility won't do him in, but his inability to get separation might.

Honestly i don't think he makes it. But that's just me, Gaffney takes his spot on my team. I just think Stallworth gets squeezed out by the wealth of talent at the position coupled with the ST ability of the other fringe WR's in Edelperson and Matthew "thats right i am making this team again" Slater.

I feel like he would be almost Uncoverable coming out of the slot on a few selected downs.

Great points, all, Gents. Thanks for getting back to me and sharing your Insights.

My take ~ and my apologies for flaking out on my response time!!

1 ~ I agree with Brother Win's assessment of Donte StallWorth: He seems perfect for the Split End gig, and I would be pretty freaking jazzed if we kept both him and Jabar Gaffney. Two Split Ends with both talent and experience in this System, both still young enough to play at an high level, whose skills compliment each other ~ Gaffney the clutch Possession Receiver + StallWorth the dangerous downfield Threat ~ would be sweet.

2 ~ I would be equally jazzed to see Deion Branch make the team to back up Brandon Lloyd at Flanker. And I'm actually very confident in his chances, as I fully subscribe to Sister Patricia's suggestion that his drop in production the second half was a result of injury and of Aaron the Navigator encroaching on'is Market Share, and not because Age has set in. Frankly, I think Branch still has another couple good years left in'm!!

 

[Off The Grid]

An amusing side note ~ amusing to me, anyway...

I mocked 18 Prospects in 7 Rounds to us.

I mocked another 10 UFA Prospects to us.

And I probably had another dozen or so in earlier Mocks.

And not one of them was drafted by us!!

That's 0 for 40!!

And, yet I mocked TWO Free Agents to us...and we've already signed ONE!!

 

[Ring 6]

What do you think about Donte Stallworth?

Where would he be best deployed, in your view?

Anyone who's got an opinion on this...please feel free to chime in!!

Jacksonville

 

[Triumph]

It's called rounding, and it was done at the 10ths, as is usually done. He was 3.9 ypc, not 3.8 or 4.0. Are you really going to try playing this game now? Have you fallen that far?



As I recall, I didn't say either was relevant or not relevant. I responded specifically to your original claims.



Maroney was solid in that 2007 postseason. You were wrong, as you have been wrong all offseason. You even knew you were wrong, because you went the "best defense" route to try covering your ass about 2003. And, at the end of this, your most recent post, you decided to even try moving the goalposts by arguing workload.

Comical coming from you. Your goal posts are on wheels.