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Future Extension for Cooks


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Comps might be:

Antonio Brown: $17M APY, $19M gtd
... signed 2017 at age 29, UFA 2022

DeAndre Hopkins: $16.2M APY, $36.5M gtd
... signed 2017 at age 25, UFA 2023

AJ Green: $15M APY, $26.75M gtd
... signed 2015 at age 27, UFA 2020

Julio Jones: $14.25M APY, $35.5M gtd
... signed 2015 at age 26, UFA 2021

Demaryius Thomas: $14M APY, $35M gtd
... signed 2015 at age 28, UFA 2020

Dez Bryant, .. $14M APY, $32M gtd
... signed 2015 at age 27, UFA 2020

With the the exception of Thomas (and possibly Bryant who seems to be on the decline ) all of those guys are much better than him. Unless he makes a huge leap he belongs in that second tier of WRs. Those guys are #1 WRs. He's a 2 or 3 at the moment.

Depending on what's going on with his hamstring issue, I would be far more excited about them signing Cole Beasley to a short term, prove it to me contract than I would be with a Cooks extension.
 
With the the exception of Thomas (and possibly Bryant who seems to be on the decline ) all of those guys are much better than him. Unless he makes a huge leap he belongs in that second tier of WRs. Those guys are #1 WRs. He's a 2 or 3 at the moment.

Depending on what's going on with his hamstring issue, I would be far more excited about them signing Cole Beasley to a short term, prove it to me contract than I would be with a Cooks extension.
I agree with you about Cooks belonging in the second tier, which is why I’d be willing to pay him something around 12m a year, but Cole Beasley over Cooks?

While it would be nice to have a guy like Beasley for the quicker, underneath stuff, it seems as though we already have that with Edelman. Someone like Cooks would have way more speed and could help to draw coverages away from the underneath/intermediate routes. I think that makes him much more valuable than a guy like Beasley.
 
While it would be nice to have a guy like Beasley for the quicker, underneath stuff, it seems as though we already have that with Edelman. Someone like Cooks would have way more speed and could help to draw coverages away from the underneath/intermediate routes. I think that makes him much more valuable than a guy like Beasley.

As much as it hurts it is time to think past Edelman. He will be 32 coming off an ACL next summer. At this point there is no guarantee that we will see him back on the field at all. Beasley is 28 and could be available for somewhat cheap. That being said I dont think that situation has anything to do with Cooks anyway.
 
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Yeah also Beasley turns 29 next season no thanks.
 
Astute and insightful. I'd love to see where you stand on other WR's in the league.

I like to pick out receivers that are gonna have big years. This year I hit on Hogan having a big year being in the system a little big longer (before he got injured - that hit though, I knew he was washed up for the rest of the year). In '14 I called Sanders having a monster year in the preseason cause I saw BB trying to nab him from the Steelers the year prior. He was bound to have monster year with a decent QB and a true WR1 pulling coverage from him. I like finding the trends in receivers year to year, but I keep missing on Cobb, I think because the pack paid him like a WR2 - really fooled me.

I really do think the WR2 and WR3 are more interesting that the flashy WR1.

Yeah. What/who is, or is not, a "True WR1"? To me the question is a bit tougher to answer than it seems. And it becomes an especially hot debate when talking about who makes the list and who doesn't.

Yet, there's a reason why we call them WR1's and WR2/3's. A true WR1 is able to divert attention (like you said) onto himself and still have production, while opening opportunities up for players across the field (like the Sanders example).

I think this is part of it, but another important part is how well a guy continues to produce at a very high level even when his supporting cast is generally mediocre (QB, running game, other pass-catchers). Hopkins seems to be one of those guys, and Andre Johnson before him. Megatron. Such guys are exceedingly rare.

But that's where the WR market-driven pay scale comes into play. A lot of GMs, and especially owners, talk themselves into believing that they've caught that very special lightning in a bottle in the draft (or free agency) and overpay a guy on his second contract. So, a lot of guys who might be just pretty good complimentary pieces (or maybe not) end up getting paid top dollar and raising the price of all other WRs down the line. Then, other teams have difficulty retaining their own complimentray-piece WRs at a salary that allows them to keep the rest of a good supporting cast intact and stay under the cap.

IOW, there are a lot of good (and not so good), "complimentary-piece" WRs getting paid more than they're worth (in an ideal, rational, alternate dimension to our NFL). Dez and Demaryius Thomas have made guys like Jeffrey, Baldwin, Keenan Allen, TY Hilton, and probably Cooks, a lot more expensive. And, of course, almost any younger, decent complimentary-type WR can have a breakout, WR1-type season as a one-off (Cobb; maybe also Golden Tate).

Dez Bryant, for example, is NOT a "True WR1" IMHO, and I'm not certain that he ever really was. Bryant illustrates the flip-side for me - that there are always a lot of guys who can appear to be WR1 level in the right circumstances (for awhile, at least) with a lot of good complementary pieces around them. But even a "True WR1" isn't necessarily capable of making a couple of total JAGs into consistent and solid #2s merely by his sheer presence on the field.

And then there are guys who are legit WR1s through their first couple contracts, and who remain very good complimentary pieces for a few years afterward (Boldin).

The other thing is that a truly good or great QB (e.g., Brady, Brees, Rodgers), with a very good coordinator, can be extremely successful with a deep enough collection of very good complimentary pieces/pass-catchers (TE's and RBs, as well as WRs). JimmyG appears to be doing that with the Niners' pass-catchers (particularly Marquise Goodwin).

Anyway, there's a metric crap-tonne more to this, but, for now, I'll say that ...
- Gronk is (now) pretty close to being a legit WR1
- Cooks appears to be a very good complimentary guy (Deion Branch+)
- Hogan and Amendola seem like solid, supporting cast types to me ("#3s")
- Not enough to go on yet with Mitchell or Dorsett, really, but both seem to have some significant potential to become solid #2/#3 guys (Mitchell moreso than Dorsett, at this point).
 
He has the greatest QB of all time throwing him the ball. With that in mind, and with all the injuries at WR, he has underachieved this season.

He has superstar potential and I am still rooting for him to click it into a higher gear this postseason. He will get better money next year on the open market than he will get here in NE.
Underachieved?

He basically put up the same # as he did in NO.
 
He has superstar potential.

Well, if those are one's expectations, then of course Cooks "underachieved."

Honestly, I don't know that Cooks does have "superstar" potential, although that largely depends on who one considers to be a "superstar".

I think that Cooks was a very good, valuable "complementary piece" in NOLA 2014-2016, working with a great QB and with several other very good "complimentary pieces" in an offense that passed the ball 50-100 more times a season than the Pats did (at least for 2014-2016).

If, in 2018, he can produce at more or less his 2017 level (while diversifying his route portfolio a bit), I'll be very pleased since he'll have confirmed to me that he's the solid, complimentary piece that the Pats will need as a base on which to rebuild the current pass-catching corps (that's always included a TE and RB).

That corps has rarely had a superstar. It's mostly comprised good-to-very good "sub-superstar-level" pass-catchers. So, for me, Cooks doesn't need to be "Moss 2.0"; he just needs to be "Branch 2.0".
 
As much as it hurts it is time to think past Edelman. He will be 32 coming off an ACL next summer. At this point there is no guarantee that we will see him back on the field at all. Beasley is 28 and could be available for somewhat cheap. That being said I dont thing that situation has anything to do with Cooks anyway.

Well, the Pats need to replace BOTH Edelman and Amendola soon (turning 32 and 33 next season).

Beasley turns 29 around the time of the 2018 draft (so, NOT "young"). He's significantly smaller than either Edelman or Amendola ... 5077/175-180 versus ~5103/195-200 for Edelman and Amendola.

He's signed thru 2018 on his post-RFA contract ($3.4M APY, with a cap hit of $4.25M in 2018).

His role in the DAL offense was significantly reduced this season from what it had been in 2015 & 2016, and his catch rate dropped precipitously from ~70% to 57%, though that was likely a product of Prescott's slump this season (at least in part) which, in turn, was likely a product of missing Zeke Elliot.

Anyway, some folks think that Beasley's much cheaper replacement is already on the Cowboys' roster in the form of Ryan Switzer, their returner.

If DAL cuts Beasley this spring, the Pats might be able to pick him up for ~$1M as a hedge against an Amendola retirement. But they also have McCarron (turns 25 in June) and Reedy (turned 26 on New Year's Eve) on the PS, both of whom are likely to be given Futures contracts soon (this week). It'll at least be interesting to have them on the 90-man off-season roster to see what they can do in OTAs thru Camp.
 
Well, the Pats need to replace BOTH Edelman and Amendola soon (turning 32 and 33 next season).

Beasley turns 29 around the time of the 2018 draft (so, NOT "young"). He's significantly smaller than either Edelman or Amendola ... 5077/175-180 versus ~5103/195-200 for Edelman and Amendola.

He's signed thru 2018 on his post-RFA contract ($3.4M APY, with a cap hit of $4.25M in 2018).

His role in the DAL offense was significantly reduced this season from what it had been in 2015 & 2016, and his catch rate dropped precipitously from ~70% to 57%, though that was likely a product of Prescott's slump this season (at least in part) which, in turn, was likely a product of missing Zeke Elliot.

Anyway, some folks think that Beasley's much cheaper replacement is already on the Cowboys' roster in the form of Ryan Switzer, their returner.

If DAL cuts Beasley this spring, the Pats might be able to pick him up for ~$1M as a hedge against an Amendola retirement. But they also have McCarron (turns 25 in June) and Reedy (turned 26 on New Year's Eve) on the PS, both of whom are likely to be given Futures contracts soon (this week). It'll at least be interesting to have them on the 90-man off-season roster to see what they can do in OTAs thru Camp.

Am still waiting for a skill position guy to come off our practice squad and really have an impact so while its nice to have Reedy and McCarron around for now I will project that they are nothing more than camp bodies that will not survive cuts.

I actually wouldnt be surprised if this is Dolas final season with the Pats, even though I can also imagine him being the guy who would hang around on a min contract as vet presence and emergency depth. Who knows..

Either way there are many crossroads ahead.. especially on offense..
 
Cooks has a couple of flaws in his game. He has a tendency to bail out of plays. He probably gave away a long TD yesterday in doing that but there have been a number of other occasions. He needs to play the play all the way through. That's easily fixable and I'm sure BB will point that out in meetings.

Another weakness is that he doesn't seem to have that instant hand-eye reaction ability that allows Edelman and Amendola to locate and secure balls that are almost on them as they come out of their breaks. That bang-bang / see-catch that JE and DA can do Cooks cannot - yet. He needs some time with Brady and Edelman in off season workouts to develop that.

While Cooks has shown some slick skills he doesn't - yet - radiate that Patriots aura, at least to my eye. This is obviously intangible but there's a next level of desire, I suppose it would be, that separates Gronk, Lewis, Edelman, Amendola from Cooks - at this point in his Pats career. He's young and I hope he'll grow into it. If he does , we'll have an elite WR.
 
As NG said, Cooks is literally 24 right now. Think about him as a guy we just drafted and are developing.

Furthermore, I don't know if y'all have been watching the games but I have. There were literally 2 catches that Cooks missed on yesterday - 1 where he thought that the play was over, and one where he had a drop. It seems like everyone continues to view that slow down catch of representative of Cooks entire season. That's called a mistake, not some intangible that defined you. The real issue is that the ball is too frequently underthrown or overthrown for the ball to end up in the WRs hands. Cooks could have tacked on at least another two hundred or three hundred yards of offense if the ball actually ended up in his hands instead of in front of him or behind him. He was more successful with those type of routes last year since Brees has been throwing deep balls to his receivers for a while now. Brady hasn't had a deep threat like Cooks in several years, so isn't nearly as comfortable throwing them. You can see how much Brady tries to throw those balls (which somewhat indicates that Cooks gets open), but they often end in DPI, Ints, or Incomplete passes. I think that Cooks is a superstar right now and his yardage will only increase as Brady improves his accuracy on those deep balls. Had Cooks had even 100 more yards, I don't think that anyone would be saying that he's a WR2/3 or a complementary piece. 2 and 3's don't put up those numbers.
 
Am still waiting for a skill position guy to come off our practice squad and really have an impact so while its nice to have Reedy and McCarron around for now I will project that they are nothing more than camp bodies that will not survive cuts.

I actually wouldnt be surprised if this is Dolas final season with the Pats, even though I can also imagine him being the guy who would hang around on a min contract as vet presence and emergency depth. Who knows..

Either way there are many crossroads ahead.. especially on offense..

Yeah. I'm not even thinking about Camp cuts right now. I'll wait on that until about halfway through Camp.

I agree that it's more likely than not (love that phrase!) that Amendola is in the WR mix on the 90-man off-season roster. It's almost certain that Edelman is, though he may not participate until Camp.

Meanwhile, all I'm suggesting is that Reedy and McCarron (and Cody Hollister) seem likely to be in that WR mix, too - along with Hogan, Mitchell, Dorsett (why not?), possibly Britt and/or a guy like Beasley, and almost certainly 2-4 UDFA, plus (possibly) a draft pick. The more candidates competing, the more there is to select from for the 53.

No way to know how all of that shakes out until it does.
 
As NG said, Cooks is literally 24 right now. Think about him as a guy we just drafted and are developing.

Furthermore, I don't know if y'all have been watching the games but I have. There were literally 2 catches that Cooks missed on yesterday - 1 where he thought that the play was over, and one where he had a drop. It seems like everyone continues to view that slow down catch of representative of Cooks entire season. That's called a mistake, not some intangible that defined you. The real issue is that the ball is too frequently underthrown or overthrown for the ball to end up in the WRs hands. Cooks could have tacked on at least another two hundred or three hundred yards of offense if the ball actually ended up in his hands instead of in front of him or behind him. He was more successful with those type of routes last year since Brees has been throwing deep balls to his receivers for a while now. Brady hasn't had a deep threat like Cooks in several years, so isn't nearly as comfortable throwing them. You can see how much Brady tries to throw those balls (which somewhat indicates that Cooks gets open), but they often end in DPI, Ints, or Incomplete passes. I think that Cooks is a superstar right now and his yardage will only increase as Brady improves his accuracy on those deep balls. Had Cooks had even 100 more yards, I don't think that anyone would be saying that he's a WR2/3 or a complementary piece. 2 and 3's don't put up those numbers.

Underthrown or overthrown? Top WRs adjust to balls better and track them. It's why a ball will look perfectly placed from most QBs. And this is coming from a Cooks fan who wants him signed.

It was cold yesterday, so there were in built excuses (like a heavy ball sailing, especially on Dorsett's big drop) but our WRs do not do a great job of tracking balls.

It's funny that Brady's deep ball was incredibly accurate back in 2007.

Gee, I wonder why that is.
 
Underthrown or overthrown? Top WRs adjust to balls better and track them. It's why a ball will look perfectly placed from most QBs. And this is coming from a Cooks fan who wants him signed.

It was cold yesterday, so there were in built excuses (like a heavy ball sailing, especially on Dorsett's big drop) but our WRs do not do a great job of tracking balls.

It's funny that Brady's deep ball was incredibly accurate back in 2007.

Gee, I wonder why that is.
Sure, but if one of the fastest players in the NFL can't make it toward the ball, then it's overthrown. Underthrowing it is different since it expects more of a jump-ball. But do you really want to have a jumpball with a receiver who is about speed and not height/spec catches? Moss was big and that was his forte. Brady was superb with deep passes in 07, but not having a threat like that for several years probably worsens that pass. I would assume (not too associated with the years before) that his WR core before that featured a deep threat as well.
 
As NG said, Cooks is literally 24 right now. Think about him as a guy we just drafted and are developing.

Furthermore, I don't know if y'all have been watching the games but I have. There were literally 2 catches that Cooks missed on yesterday - 1 where he thought that the play was over, and one where he had a drop. It seems like everyone continues to view that slow down catch of representative of Cooks entire season. That's called a mistake, not some intangible that defined you. The real issue is that the ball is too frequently underthrown or overthrown for the ball to end up in the WRs hands. Cooks could have tacked on at least another two hundred or three hundred yards of offense if the ball actually ended up in his hands instead of in front of him or behind him. He was more successful with those type of routes last year since Brees has been throwing deep balls to his receivers for a while now. Brady hasn't had a deep threat like Cooks in several years, so isn't nearly as comfortable throwing them. You can see how much Brady tries to throw those balls (which somewhat indicates that Cooks gets open), but they often end in DPI, Ints, or Incomplete passes. I think that Cooks is a superstar right now and his yardage will only increase as Brady improves his accuracy on those deep balls. Had Cooks had even 100 more yards, I don't think that anyone would be saying that he's a WR2/3 or a complementary piece. 2 and 3's don't put up those numbers.

First of all NGs argument about Cooks age is essentially meaningless. What is the difference right now whether he is 24, 26 or 28?

He has been through what? 3 or 4 NFL training camps so you can kinda say that in terms of strength and conditioning you are looking at his peak. Will he get more comfortable in his second year in NE? Most probably but that is true for a player at any age.

Also maybe you should read a bit more closely what many people are critizising about him because they might just be paying more attention to the overall situation than you do. The fact that you are expecting their deep connection to substantially improve just tells me that you are looking at the wrong things.

Deep throws are by nature low percentage plays compared to a lot of the more traditional intermediate concepts in our system and while the percentage might go up or down by 5% or so it is all statistical noise. Their deep connections this year were absolutely fine and dont need to improve to be very useful.

Where Cooks needs to get better is being used in space. We have had the same conversation for months now but right now the problems are a mix of play design and execution. Some of it is Bradys fault, some goes to Josh but also to Cooks himself.

I think we are all nuanced enough to realize that not everyone who is pointing this out is automatically disappointed with Cooks as a player. So lets just keep the black and white strawman arguments out of the thread.
 
Sure, but if one of the fastest players in the NFL can't make it toward the ball, then it's overthrown. Underthrowing it is different since it expects more of a jump-ball. But do you really want to have a jumpball with a receiver who is about speed and not height/spec catches? Moss was big and that was his forte. Brady was superb with deep passes in 07, but not having a threat like that for several years probably worsens that pass. I would assume (not too associated with the years before) that his WR core before that featured a deep threat as well.

Brady threw perfect balls to those guys yesterday. I mean, Dorsett not only slowed up but he dove! He just needed to run threw but he misjudged it. Cooks cut in and slowed up and the ball went over his head. He had the inside, with a CB on his back, he just needed to keep position. Those are totally misjudged balls, perfectly thrown though. Cooks, however, has run under some balls this year and tracked them well, but a ball that goes off the fingertips when a receiver stops running through it? That's not an overthrow. Even the announcer criticized Dorsett for that.
 
I like Cooks but Im not sure he's in for a big contract in Foxboro.

Charlie Wise had some strong words about Cooks: “He's just a fast guy who doesn't run very good routs“

(in the context of NE having to deal with big loss of Edelman and that “they really don't have a front line receiver“)
 
I like Cooks but Im not sure he's in for a big contract in Foxboro.

Charlie Wise had some strong words about Cooks: “He's just a fast guy who doesn't run very good routs“

(in the context of NE having to deal with big loss of Edelman and that “they really don't have a front line receiver“)

Weis has forgotten more about football than I know but I think his comments are exaggerated.
 
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