Bill Barnwell's five things the Patriots need to do to improve

[zimmy]

I've got no interest in extending Cooks at $16m a year. I like Flowers too, but $11m seems a bit rich for him as well.

Cooks simply isn't worth $16m - I'm not convinced he is on the same page as Brady, he is a bit of a one trick pony (but a good one), and his hands are questionable. I would re-sign him to a decent deal - maybe around $10m a year - but that won't be enough. Edelman is a better player and we only give him $4m a year.

I don't want to give up on him but I would consider trading him if we could get a 2nd round pick back. I think Dorsett, while not as good, could provide a decent facsimile of the deep threat Cooks is, and we could reinvest the pick in the defence or our QB of the future.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I've got no interest in extending Cooks at $16m a year. I like Flowers too, but $11m seems a bit rich for him as well.

Cooks simply isn't worth $16m - I'm not convinced he is on the same page as Brady, he is a bit of a one trick pony (but a good one), and his hands are questionable. I would re-sign him to a decent deal - maybe around $10m a year - but that won't be enough. Edelman is a better player and we only give him $4m a year.

I don't want to give up on him but I would consider trading him if we could get a 2nd round pick back. I think Dorsett, while not as good, could provide a decent facsimile of the deep threat Cooks is, and we could reinvest the pick in the defence or our QB of the future.

wtf? where on earth are you getting these numbers from??? barnwell
is a moron

 

[maust]

At WR the Pats have only paid serious money for one year twice, to Welekr & Moss, each only for one year. Brandin F Cooks is not the guy they are breaking that pattern for. Likewise with interior O-lineman, Mason is no Mankins.

 

[HailHydra]

I'm still not sold entirely on Trey Flowers and I don't think at his current level of production he is worth 10 mill+. Those numbers are reserved for guys who consistently get sacks over the course of the season. However, Shaq Mason is an obvious re-sign to make soon, and 9 mill would be a relative bargain. Cooks for 16 mill is unnecessary - I would say that 12-13 mill is probably the best offer we would make.

 

[HailHydra]

I've got no interest in extending Cooks at $16m a year. I like Flowers too, but $11m seems a bit rich for him as well.

Cooks simply isn't worth $16m - I'm not convinced he is on the same page as Brady, he is a bit of a one trick pony (but a good one), and his hands are questionable. I would re-sign him to a decent deal - maybe around $10m a year - but that won't be enough. Edelman is a better player and we only give him $4m a year.

I don't want to give up on him but I would consider trading him if we could get a 2nd round pick back. I think Dorsett, while not as good, could provide a decent facsimile of the deep threat Cooks is, and we could reinvest the pick in the defence or our QB of the future.

We aren't trading Cooks for a 2nd round pick...

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I'm still not sold entirely on Trey Flowers and I don't think at his current level of production he is worth 10 mill+. Those numbers are reserved for guys who consistently get sacks over the course of the season. However, Shaq Mason is an obvious re-sign to make soon, and 9 mill would be a relative bargain. Cooks for 16 mill is unnecessary - I would say that 12-13 mill is probably the best offer we would make.

So, may I ask a question?

Leonard Williams can't carry Trey Flowers's jock, yet what is your opinion of #6 overall pick, Williams, in that draft compared to Flowers and what he's done so far?

In other words, if the Jets try to cover for how mediocre and disappointing Williams is there from that same draft by giving him Chandler Jones money (lmao), do you just pretend Flowers is worse than Williams (even if not true), simply based on where each was drafted?

 

[Simpelton]

Think the only possible issue is because its Brady's finals years, but do agree with you

If the core deteriorates past a certain point, Brady stops being the most important consideration.

I think we saw the defense deteriorate past that point in the Superbowl. Brady alone can't carry this team anymore than he could the team in 2011. In both cases I think the defense outperformed and became exposed in the most important game of the year, that's going to keep happening unless the Patriots can revolutionize the roster, and I think that will take an investment in time and energy that will preclude also going hell for leather after a title.

I don't think the Patriots will pass up on Superbowls if they're on offer. But I think it's time to pull back a bit, take the pedal off the floor, and think about the intermediate term. You can only do so many things at once, and some of the focus needs to go back onto sustained winning rather than going hell for leather on 1 or 2 more title drives.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

At WR the Pats have only paid serious money for one year twice, to Welekr & Moss, each only for one year. Brandin F Cooks is not the guy they are breaking that pattern for. Likewise with interior O-lineman, Mason is no Mankins.

I don't know.

Mankins sucked in postseasons and was nowhere near as great as people claimed. The media love the fact he drove cross country to sign his deal and they became enamored with him. The media gushed over him for years, especially Mike Reiss. Mankins was on the good side of the media and it clouded their analysis on him, tough guy or not.

At least Mason helped win a SB and has played better in postseasons than Mankins ever did. Mankins got ejected, selfishly so, in his first ever postseason game and his work in postseasons thereafter left a lot to be desired.

He was great against weaker competition, though.

Probably the most overrated player in the last 15 years. BB should have dealt him in early 2010 when he called Kraft a liar after the Saints wildly overpaid Jahri Evans, at their start of their cap hell. They could have moved Connolly over there permanently. If you remember we didn't miss him at all in the first 6 games of 2010 when Mankins was being a turd.

But, no one is going to overpay Mason. That's why I said it should be an easy deal to execute. Mason is improving and a good player, but with BB and Scar knowing the market so well, Mason won't have much leverage to use.

Mankins draft position and media hype created a monster, basically.

 

[Simpelton]

I'm still not sold entirely on Trey Flowers and I don't think at his current level of production he is worth 10 mill+. Those numbers are reserved for guys who consistently get sacks over the course of the season. However, Shaq Mason is an obvious re-sign to make soon, and 9 mill would be a relative bargain. Cooks for 16 mill is unnecessary - I would say that 12-13 mill is probably the best offer we would make.

One of the twin traps involved in the tightrope act that is sustained winning in this league is overpaying for the wrong guy.

The other one is not paying for the talent you need to sustain your core.

Bill has done an amazing job of avoiding both traps at the same time. Hopefully this will continue.

 

[Simpelton]

Injuries happen. The league saw a spike in injuries this year like no other year in NFL history. So many star players got hurt, including players on our team, namely Edelman and Hightower.

If you honestly believe 1 or both of these players would not have helped like they both did in the SB 49 and 51 wins, I cannot help you. I just can't. You're so fare gone in line with Felger/Mazz, you might as well stop following the team.

Injuries and good players becoming bigger injury risks is part of what a deteriorating core looks like.

It comes down to what we can do in FA, but I honestly think that if we go damn-the-torpedoes mode this coming year, it will be at the cost of future winning. Our core isn't decripit but it's getting older, if we don't move to get younger as a team the window might close no matter what Brady can do. It's a tight rope act and going straight for the gold is not always the right way to ensure that you win titles.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Injuries and good players becoming bigger injury risks is part of what a deteriorating core looks like.

It comes down to what we can do in FA, but I honestly think that if we go damn-the-torpedoes mode this coming year, it will be at the cost of future winning. Our core isn't decripit but it's getting older, if we don't move to get younger as a team the window might close no matter what Brady can do. It's a tight rope act and going straight for the gold is not always the right way to ensure that you win titles.

False. This team is still young, man. We have key players still in their primes at ages 28-30ish, who still play well, where BB has nice contracts in place, avoiding cap hell.

Players bounce back from ACLs so fast nowadays and injuries are occurring at a much higher rate, which is why depth is vital. We had that depth this year.

For whatever reason, the odd seasons, we have bad luck in this area and in the even seasons, we have very good luck.

We are now due for a good luck health season. The Pats were the youngest team to ever win a SB in 2014.

It's now 2018, and a big draft is needed due to Goodell cheating and stealing our picks and a youth boost needed, but it can happen and be added to a young, experienced team.

If we had won the SB, what you're saying right now would be seen as crazy.
The Pats will go to their 8th straight title game next year and we'll see how healthy they are heading into the SB.

Our team is not in cap hell, never has been, and is very structurally sound. Assuming the obvious cuts, BB can run up to about 35 million in space for long term/in house deals, keeping in house FAs on 1-2 year deals, and then still dip into the 2nd tier FA pool. I don't expect any flash signings, because we really don't need any.

2013 was the worst, 2015 pretty bad and this past year was the 3rd less nasty injury situation, which is why we actually MADE It to the SB at all. It's very clear BB believes in sound depth, goes for it and usually has it. This year was clearly not perfect, but how are injuries avoidable like there is some magic potion available somewhere BB isn't buying? It's just silly.

BB was brilliant as a GM and has been for years. Look at other teams and their injuries compared to ours.

And. please don't tell me it's all Brady because if our QB was now JimmyG we'd be doing 10-6 or 11-5 every year, instead of 12-4 or 13-3.

Felger and Mazz are utterly clueless.

What we can do in FA, is basically work with the FAs who are here who we know and go from there.

There are always 2nd tier FAs as camp invites and the draft you can certainly do well and bring in rookies who can have impact. We saw that 2 and 3 years ago in both SB wins.

 

[maust]

I don't know.
---
But, no one is going to overpay Mason. That's why I said it should be an easy deal to execute..

You're right you don't know, what I was talking about. I wasn't praising Mankins, the point being made is he is the only interior lineman the Pats have paid top money to. Barnwell, as usual, missed the mark. Mason isn't getting top of the market money and if he jams the Pats for it the best he will get from New England is one year of it, just like Mankins, Welker and Moss. As for Flowers Belichick didn't pay Jones or Collins silly money, he isn't likely to break the bank for Flowers either.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

You're right you don't know, what I was talking about. I wasn't praising Mankins, the point being made is he is the only interior lineman the Pats have paid top money to. Barnwell, as usual, missed the mark. Mason isn't getting top of the market money and if he jams the Pats for it the best he will get from New England is one year of it, just like Mankins, Welker and Moss. As for Flowers Belichick didn't pay Jones or Collins silly money, he isn't likely to break the bank for Flowers either

And, that was a mistake by BB. Dumping him to Tampa came about 4 years too late.

I would argue of any draft pick to get an extension over his entire tenure, Mankins was the most overpaid and under-productive player we had from 2010-2013.

I bet BB loves Flowers, will pay him accordingly, and do it as fast as possible to maintain his leverage.

I know EXACTLY what you are talking about, as I do with others who overrate players that the media does, while underrating others simply because the media does not pimp them.

 

[maust]

I know EXACTLY what you are talking about, as I do with others who overrate players that the media does, while underrating others simply because the media does not pimp them.

Not with that response you don't. Let me be as clear as I can: I was talking positional contract similarities only. You have no idea how I rate any of the players involved because I haven't commented on what I feel their value is one way or the other. Ironically, Flowers was selected using the pick acquired in the Mankins trade.

As a general rule of thumb it is better to allow someone to illustrate their incompetence before you assume it.

 

[Froob]

Yeah, the idea of extending all three of Cooks, Mason, and Flowers is already pie in the sky level thinking, let alone them doing it a year ahead of time with all of their upcoming FAs.

We’d see better analysis from a 6th grader who follows the team on a casual basis.

Polling the 3rd graders worked once before.

 

[IllegalContact]

Trey Flowers - Overrated and to be overpaid....I'll take the 3rd round comp
Shaq Mason - bring him back......need to keep OL intact as long as Brady is here
Cooks - love the guy, but WR's are out there........he looked great but what was his net effect? we will see with Edelman back this year

 

[TB_Helmet]

Injuries and good players becoming bigger injury risks is part of what a deteriorating core looks like.

It comes down to what we can do in FA, but I honestly think that if we go damn-the-torpedoes mode this coming year, it will be at the cost of future winning. Our core isn't decripit but it's getting older, if we don't move to get younger as a team the window might close no matter what Brady can do. It's a tight rope act and going straight for the gold is not always the right way to ensure that you win titles.

Also you never said that the Pats couldn't have used Edelman or Hightower as was asserted in the post you're replying to here. Not sure where that came from.

 

[captain stone]

We aren't trading Cooks for a 2nd round pick...

Too bad, because I would personally drive up to Foxborough from Hershey and then turn around and immediately drive our lost little cookie to the airport of Bill's choosing.

p.s.: if the non-draft byline of anything on Fespn doesn't come from either Schefter, Yates or Reiss, then it's not worth reading, or clicking.

 

[JackBauer]

We had that depth this year.

Nope, we sure didn’t.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

Trey Flowers - Overrated and to be overpaid....I'll take the 3rd round comp
Shaq Mason - bring him back......need to keep OL intact as long as Brady is here
Cooks - love the guy, but WR's are out there........he looked great but what was his net effect? we will see with Edelman back this year

Flowers is a beast definitely not over rated and he is looked up to by Wise and Rivers you need leadership on the team he has that in spades