Free Agent WR Battle: Sidney Rice v. Malcom Floyd

[sbpatfan]

If we can throw teams off balance and get them to respect play action I can see guys like Tate and Gronkowski stretching the field just fine. With another year for these TEs and the infusion of youth in the RB stable I don't see why it's not possible, especially with versatile backs like Vereen / Woodhead. I expect a ton of motion this year.

A big name WR just doesn't seem like a huge priority. I'd rather see them 1) resign Mankins and 2) pickup some more roleplayers at OLB or the Defensive Line. I'd hate to see them signing guys like Landon Cohen down the stretch again.

 

[The_Riddler]

Rice would definately take care of the Brandon Tate weakness, but Floyd might be more cost-effective.

 

[MAYOnnaise]

Rice would definately take care of the Brandon Tate weakness, but Floyd might be more cost-effective.

What exactly is the "Brandon Tate weakness"?

 

[The_Riddler]

What exactly is the "Brandon Tate weakness"?

Did you watch any games last season? He can and should be upgraded.

 

[Frick]

Neither. Have Branch coach up Taylor Price this year, and next year if he hasn't signed a contract (and since they haven't done anything to improve the team) give a blank check to Larry Fitzgerald.

 

[sbpatfan]

Did you watch any games last season? He can and should be upgraded.

I saw the best KR we've had in years and a guy who was asked to play a specific role in the offense. At no point in the season did the Patriots lose a game because they couldn't stretch the field.

 

[TheSolderKing]

I voted FLOYD thinking it was that Notre Dame WR who could go in upcoming draft w/ a 2 or 3rd rounder



Rice is answer... I would however like that ND WR

 

[The_Riddler]

I saw the best KR we've had in years and a guy who was asked to play a specific role in the offense. At no point in the season did the Patriots lose a game because they couldn't stretch the field.

Brandon's KRs went downhill for some reason after game 6 or 7. He started running "ginergly" all too often during the 2nd half of the season. Alot of the Pats drives had to start at or below the 20 because of it. An upgrade in that area would be welcome (I would take UFA Smith off the Jets hands in NY minute to be our KR returner).

Look Brandon is a small WR, not physical, will not win any jump balls and will more than likely lose the majority of tight physical battles for the football in tight coverage simply because he's not that strong or big. When you're not that strong or big at the outside WR spot, you have to make up for that with Steve Smith type speed to separate, we didn't see this from Brandon aside from a couple of plays that broke down where he lost the CB (rare situations).
We also saw some flat out drops. His hands were questionable when he was drafted and it reared it's ugly head on more than a few occasions last year.

I am hoping BB upgrades via FA or I am really hoping that Taylor can grab that spot should BB not want to spend for a FA.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I saw the best KR we've had in years and a guy who was asked to play a specific role in the offense. At no point in the season did the Patriots lose a game because they couldn't stretch the field.

That's one of the main reasons why they lost in the playoffs.

 

[ay-yo]

I voted for the "i don't want another receiver" option. I would rather see the money spent on other areas, namely at DE. We were the #1 scoring offense last year. No need to fix what's not broken.

As for the Jet's playoff game argument (we scored 21):
1. 2009 Pats with Moss lose to the Jets and only score 9 points.
2. 2010 Pats with Moss lose to Jets and only score 14 points.
3. 2010 Pats, without a deep threat, with the same bunch of smurf receivers, score 45 points on the
Jets. :rocker:

 

[supafly]

That's one of the main reasons why they lost in the playoffs.

I suppose that's questionable at best, and although I certainly see where you're going, I'm not sure that's 100% the reason why we lost.

I saw poor execution, missed opportunities, a horrible bad-luck event that changed the outcome of the game right before halftime that gave them momentum going into the half (would have been 7-3, not 14-3), and atrociously horrible pass coverage in the middle of the field.

Remember, the game was cut to 14-11, we had all of the momentum after the successful 2 pt conversion, and then...the defense properly allowed Cotchery to go, what? 60 yards or so, right down the middle.

Brady still threw for 300 yds and 2 TD's. I'm not sure that stretching the field would have worked in this scenario due to the lack of needing to move a safety over in help of coverage.

When you have Revis and Cromartie, you can gamble and get away with it by not rolling a safety over, and having direct one-on-one CB coverage. I'm not sure even if Larry Fitzgerald would've changed this game any?

As someone else pointed out, in 2 of the 3 losses to the NYJ (Rex Ryan era), we had Randy Moss--certainly a stretch the field kind of guy. Sadly, our offensive production was 9 pts and 14 pts in those games.

This most recent game was lost due to the inability to stuff the run (wasn't 'horrible,' but it certainly wasn't 'good' either), and bad pass defense (specifically down the middle of the field). Our offense, even with all of the mistakes-dropped balls etc, still put up 21 points. Our defense averaged giving up 19.5 all year long, THEY are the ones who didn't do their job.

I respect your opinion, but I believe the thought of us losing due to not being able to 'stretch the field' is a complete farce, especially when you look at the NYJ cornerback tandem in that game.

 

[Deus Irae]

I voted for the "i don't want another receiver" option. I would rather see the money spent on other areas, namely at DE. We were the #1 scoring offense last year. No need to fix what's not broken.

As for the Jet's playoff game argument (we scored 21):
1. 2009 Pats with Moss lose to the Jets and only score 9 points.
2. 2010 Pats with Moss lose to Jets and only score 14 points.
3. 2010 Pats, without a deep threat, with the same bunch of smurf receivers, score 45 points on the
Jets. :rocker:

Your post is meaningless without context.

 

[Deus Irae]

I suppose that's questionable at best, and although I certainly see where you're going, I'm not sure that's 100% the reason why we lost.

I saw poor execution, missed opportunities, a horrible bad-luck event that changed the outcome of the game right before halftime that gave them momentum going into the half (would have been 7-3, not 14-3), and atrociously horrible pass coverage in the middle of the field.

Remember, the game was cut to 14-11, we had all of the momentum after the successful 2 pt conversion, and then...the defense properly allowed Cotchery to go, what? 60 yards or so, right down the middle.

Brady still threw for 300 yds and 2 TD's. I'm not sure that stretching the field would have worked in this scenario due to the lack of needing to move a safety over in help of coverage.

When you have Revis and Cromartie, you can gamble and get away with it by not rolling a safety over, and having direct one-on-one CB coverage. I'm not sure even if Larry Fitzgerald would've changed this game any?

As someone else pointed out, in 2 of the 3 losses to the NYJ (Rex Ryan era), we had Randy Moss--certainly a stretch the field kind of guy. Sadly, our offensive production was 9 pts and 14 pts in those games.

This most recent game was lost due to the inability to stuff the run (wasn't 'horrible,' but it certainly wasn't 'good' either), and bad pass defense (specifically down the middle of the field). Our offense, even with all of the mistakes-dropped balls etc, still put up 21 points. Our defense averaged giving up 19.5 all year long, THEY are the ones who didn't do their job.

I respect your opinion, but I believe the thought of us losing due to not being able to 'stretch the field' is a complete farce, especially when you look at the NYJ cornerback tandem in that game.

They lost the playoff game due to a lot of reasons. The inability of the edge receivers to win one-on-one matchups, and the inability of those receivers to seriously threaten deep, were two of them.

 

[cstjohn17]

This could be the best WR offseason in a long time.

Free agents - Floyd, Rice, the other Steve Smith
Trade candidates - Vincent Jackson, Steve Smith, Chad Jackson
Possible Cuts - Roy Williams


A whole lot of douche bags to go around but if V Jax can be had for a 2nd round pick, sign me up.


"Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune suggests Chargers GM A.J. Smith will be more willing to deal Vincent Jackson this year than last.Acee emphasizes that he's not predicting the Bolts will deal V-Jax, only that an offer of a second-rounder plus a conditional mid-round pick would have a much better chance of being accepted this time around. Jackson is willing to play under the franchise tag, but he's yet to sign for 2011. Acee's revelation is especially interesting in light of earlier reports that Steve Smith's preference is play in San Diego"
Vincent Jackson - San Diego Chargers - 2011 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

 

[supafly]

They lost the playoff game due to a lot of reasons. The inability of the edge receivers to win one-on-one matchups, and the inability of those receivers to seriously threaten deep, were two of them.

Yes, that is certainly a fair enough statement. I am sure that it did not help on any level. However, I do think that this big 'we need a downfield threat now' thinking is overrated--just my opinion.

The team was very consistent in putting up 30+ pretty much all season. Why couldn't we win the other 2 with a downfield threat with Moss? Our game is precision route running, mid to intermediate passes to the open guy. With Revis and Cromartie doing such a good job covering those guys, who--in your opinion, could have won the "individual one-on-one matchups" that you refer to?

They held Reggie Wayne to 1 catch for 1 yard, and then went into Pittsburgh to hold BOTH Wallace (certainly a premier downfield threat who can usually win one-on-one matchups) and Hines Ward to a total of 3 catches....That is why I do not necessarily feel that there are too many guys in this entire league who could've done the job. COULD Larry Fitz have helped? Probably, sure. But what are the honest chances that we will pay money to one of the few WR's in the league that could have won those one-on-one matchups? Moss obviously didn't do that great of a job of it, although he did make that incredible 1 handed catch in the first loss..but that was not really due to Revis' poor coverage, that was more of just an incredibly well-skilled, and even 'lucky' catch.

The inability of the defense to stop them was certainly a big reason, and we could go back and forth all night as to what was more important. If you don't let them score, they can't win. However, giving them good field position did not help any. The straw that broke the camel's back was definitely the down the middle catch and RAC to Cotchery after we had just cut it to 14-11.

 

[supafly]

This could be the best WR offseason in a long time.

Free agents - Floyd, Rice, the other Steve Smith
Trade candidates - Vincent Jackson, Steve Smith, Chad Jackson
Possible Cuts - Roy Williams


A whole lot of douche bags to go around but if V Jax can be had for a 2nd round pick, sign me up.


"Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune suggests Chargers GM A.J. Smith will be more willing to deal Vincent Jackson this year than last.Acee emphasizes that he's not predicting the Bolts will deal V-Jax, only that an offer of a second-rounder plus a conditional mid-round pick would have a much better chance of being accepted this time around. Jackson is willing to play under the franchise tag, but he's yet to sign for 2011. Acee's revelation is especially interesting in light of earlier reports that Steve Smith's preference is play in San Diego"
Vincent Jackson - San Diego Chargers - 2011 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

I will certainly assume that you mean Chad Johnson, or Ochocinco...

Chad Jackson is not going to do much to help us

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes, that is certainly a fair enough statement. I am sure that it did not help on any level. However, I do think that this big 'we need a downfield threat now' thinking is overrated--just my opinion.

The team was very consistent in putting up 30+ pretty much all season. Why couldn't we win the other 2 with a downfield threat with Moss? Our game is precision route running, mid to intermediate passes to the open guy. With Revis and Cromartie doing such a good job covering those guys, who--in your opinion, could have won the "individual one-on-one matchups that you refer to?"

In 2010, the first Jets game was clearly showing that Welker wasn't yet back at full capacity, and Brady was forcing passes to Moss. In 2009, Brady just flat-out threw bad passes. The overthrow to Gronk comes to mind.

In the playoff game, the passing game started off brilliantly. Early mistakes by Brady and Crumpler, followed by the Jets defensive adjustments and the Patriots receivers inability to make the Jets pay for those adjustments, doomed the team in the end.

This team will sometimes struggle against a team that can put 2 solid corners and a solid cover safety on the field. That's because Brady can't be perfect all the time. If Brady is perfect, he can throw to you and I and still get it done. When he's bringing his "a" game, though, he needs help, and this group can't help him loosen up the defense.

 

[strngplyr]

In 2010, the first Jets game was clearly showing that Welker wasn't yet back at full capacity, and Brady was forcing passes to Moss. In 2009, Brady just flat-out threw bad passes. The overthrow to Gronk comes to mind.

In the playoff game, the passing game started off brilliantly. Early mistakes by Brady and Crumpler, followed by the Jets defensive adjustments and the Patriots receivers inability to make the Jets pay for those adjustments, doomed the team in the end.

This team will sometimes struggle against a team that can put 2 solid corners and a solid cover safety on the field. That's because Brady can't be perfect all the time. If Brady is perfect, he can throw to you and I and still get it done. When he's bringing his "a" game, though, he needs help, and this group can't help him loosen up the defense.

Gronk was drafted in April 2010, he didn't play in the 2009 season.

 

[Deus Irae]

Gronk was drafted in April 2010, he didn't play in the 2009 season.

Good catch. That was the 2010 game. I flipped the Gronk pass to 2009 in my head for some reason. :bricks:

 

[Snake Eyes]

I'm not sure even if Larry Fitzgerald would've changed this game any?

As someone else pointed out, in 2 of the 3 losses to the NYJ (Rex Ryan era), we had Randy Moss--certainly a stretch the field kind of guy. Sadly, our offensive production was 9 pts and 14 pts in those games.

I do think Fitz would have helped, he's physical and can deal with press coverage, and still get open. Also, regarding "stretching the field", one of the big problems with Moss was that going deep was all he could do and going deep is probably the weakest part of Brady's game.

Fitz can run any damn route there is AND go deep, and he's physical and gets great yards after the catch.

While I do think Fitz would have helped we had a TON of issues in that game, one of which being Merriwether bounding right off of Keller, We're weak in the middle as well.