FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning...

[JJDChE]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

And if you compare their overall PLAYOFF numbers, this is what comes out to:

Manning:

5,389 yards, 29 TD, 19 interceptions, 63.1 completion %, 7.51 yards per attempt, 88.4 passer rating.

Brady:

4,407 yards, 30 TD, 16 interceptions, 62.2 completion %, 6.46 yards per attempt, 85.7 passer rating.

And to make it even funnier for, look at their 4th Quarter numbers in the playoffs:

Manning:

1189 yards, 6 TD, 5 int, 7.9 YPA, 86.8 passer rating

Brady:

1171 yards, 6 TD, 5 int, 6.4 YPA, 80.2 passer rating

Hilarious. Brady's the most overrated playoff performer in the league, and probably this decade. It makes no sense that a choker, compared to a playoff GOD, can have BETTER and MORE EFFICIENT NUMBERS when you line them up.

And Brady's yards per attempt (YPA) won't make it out of this unscathed either. Those 6.5 YPA's are Chad Pennington-eque. And even with his low risk throws while watching the defense do the majority of the work, he STILL has a lower completion percentage then Manning in the playoffs.

AND that doesn't even count the fact that Manning has played more playoff games on the road! When some of you are ready to retaliate with facts, let me know. This "Manning is a choker" garbage with nothing to back it up is really getting old around here.

No, no, no. You have it all wrong. Brady is far superior when the temperature at kickoff is between 27 and 61 and the wind is blowing east to west! Look it up, the stats don't lie!!!

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Manning came in in '98

Faulk YFS
1994 1,804
1995 1,553
1996 1,015
1997 1,525
1998 2,227 (Led NFL)

Harrison
1996 64-836-8
1997 73-866-6
1998 59-776-7 (injured: missed 4 games)
1999 115-1663-12
2000 102-1413-14
2001 109-1524-15


Actually, it looks like he did make both of those guys a whole lot better than they were before he came around.

Once again with the cluelessness. Harrison's first 2 seasons in the NFL were before Manning arrived on the scene. As a rookie, he caught 64 for 836. As a second year player, he improved to 73 for 866. Then, Manning came on the scene and his numbers dropped to 59 for 776. In other words, his numbers were rising before Manning got there, and took a hit in Manning's first season before rising again, as would be expected with almost any rookie QB's impact. Harrison was already becoming Harrison before Manning even showed up.

The Faulk claim has to be a joke on your part. The year before Manning showed up, Faulk averaged 4.0 ypc and 10.0 y/r. The year he played with Manning, he averaged 4.1 ypc and 10.6 y/r. Those are almost identical. The first year with the Rams, he went 5.5 ypc and 12.0 y/r.

At this point, you're not even worth posting this stuff for. Making the Harrison/Faulk claims, particularly the Faulk claim, you made is about as asinine as it gets.

 

[Jetssuck]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

All-star cast?

One question.

Does the stupidity from you Patriots fan ever stop? Does it ever even come to a halt? The arrogance the majority of you display on this board is comical. Literally showing no regard to the opposing argument is the motto around here, huh?

In 2009, these were Manning's weapons:

1) Reggie Wayne
2) Dallas Clark
3) Pierre Garcon (6th round draft pick, first year starting in Marvin Harrison's place)
4) Austin Collie (4th round pick, started in the slot, and he was a rookie)
5) Addai/Brown (31st ranked running game in the league)

And the Colts primarily run a 3 WR/1 TE/1 RB set. Please don't tell me they don't, because they do. So that means there was two first year starters that were 4th and 6th round picks, a diminishing offensive line that hasn't been good since 2006, a new head coach in Jim Caldwell, and a new offensive coordinator.

That's not even close to "all-star" cast. And what did Manning do? Win the MVP, and took the Colts to the Super Bowl with a 14-2 record, and didn't even lose a game with starters in the entire time until the Super Bowl.

F*ckin clueless, so pathetic.

And last year he played poorly? Please.

Garcon, Clark, Addai, Brown, Hart, Collie, Gonzalez, and MULTIPLE offensive linemen were missing at one point. In fact, the Colts dressed 72 different players last season and we were easily the most injury ridden team in the league.

Also, Manning didn't have same luxury Brady did, with a great offensive line (if they aren't great, then how the F*CK were those running backs doing so damn well last season?), he didn't have the luxury of a healthy backfield or healthy receiving corps.

Imagine Brady losing Welker for the year, Branch missing time, Edelemen not even playing the season (ala Gonzalez), Woodhead/Ellis/Your 3rd RB missing significant time, and Gronkowski or Hernandez (take your pick, which one of them even close to matches Clark's value?) being out for the year after the 4th week.

Let me know how Brady would do then. You guys had a heart attack in '09 when you lost Welker on the last game of the season and put on a pitiful offensive performance vs Baltimore AT HOME, with Brady turning the damn ball over 4 times. You can make excuses, but if Manning turned the ball over 4 times in a home wild card game, you'd have three orgasms within a 1 minute period.

And even with ALL of that in 2010, along with another year of an awful running game (you guys have no idea what it's like to watch your QB hand off to your RB for a 1 yard gain every play) Manning still threw for 4800 yards, 33 TD, and 17 picks. With a 90+ rating yet again.

Some of you need to get some FACTS instead of running off at the mouth with your arrogant opinions. When someone wants to bring facts to the table, FACTS, I'll even spell it out: F A C T S, you're more than welcome to. Simply stating something with no source or statistics to back it up is not a fact.

This a pats forum, you moron. Go back to your clots forum if you want rose petals to be thrown before his majesty Peyton Manning.

How can anyone complain that a colts oline that leads the league in fewest sacks allowed almost every year isn't that good? The Colts oline is certainly better than the Patriots.

And If Brady's oline is so otherworldly good, why did it allow the most sacks in the NFL in 2008 with Matt Cassel?

Pierre Garcon is a sixth round draft pick and Austin Collie is a fourth round. SFW. Wes Welker was undrafted, Aaron Hernandez is a fourth round draft pick. Danny Woodhead is undrafted. Troy Brown was an eighth round draft pick.

Seasons that Tom Brady's leading receiver was a first round draft pick : 2007

Seasons that Peyton Manning's leading receiver was a first round draft pick: 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010.

Brady has done more with less and Manning has done less with more.

 

[JJDChE]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Once again with the cluelessness. Harrison's first 2 seasons in the NFL were before Manning arrived on the scene. As a rookie, he caught 64 for 836. As a second year player, he improved to 73 for 866. Then, Manning came on the scene and his numbers dropped to 59 for 776. In other words, his numbers were rising before Manning got there, and took a hit in Manning's first season before rising again, as would be expected with almost any rookie QB's impact. Harrison was already becoming Harrison before Manning even showed up.

Are you serious? He had two virtually identical average seasons before Manning came in. His third season (first with manning) He was on pace to make a significant improvement, but got injured. Every complete season after Manning came in, he was an elite WR.

The Faulk claim has to be a joke on your part. The year before Manning showed up, Faulk averaged 4.0 ypc and 10.0 y/r. The year he played with Manning, he averaged 4.1 ypc and 10.6 y/r. Those are almost identical. The first year with the Rams, he went 5.5 ypc and 12.0 y/r.

At this point, you're not even worth posting this stuff for. Making the Harrison/Faulk claims, particularly the Faulk claim, you made is about as asinine as it gets.

Faulk had his best season by far Manning's rookie year. He led the league in YFS, on a team that went 3-13.

 

[Jetssuck]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

He was voted all-pro 6 times and MVP four times. Need more proof?

His passer rating is lower, his ay/a is lower.

He's 9 and 10 in the playoffs. The one year he won the superbowl he threw 3 tds and 7 ints.

He's won only 2 mvps that he deserved. The same as Tom Brady.

 

[Off The Grid]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Manning and Brady are deservedly 1 and 1 in terms of best QBs.

Deal with it.

Actually, my angry little friend, Brady's resume DWARFS Manning's, by any objective and intelligent measure.

Deal with it.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Are you serious? He had two virtually identical average seasons before Manning came in. His third season (first with manning) He was on pace to make a significant improvement, but got injured. Every complete season after Manning came in, he was an elite WR.

Obviously, I'm serious. Your attempted refutation doesn't even do anything but underscore my point about Harrison. He was a quality and improving player who was already a talent before Manning arrived, and who's numbers took a step back in Manning's rookie year and then went back up. Manning didn't make Harrison, which is what my point is. I'm sorry you're too willfully blind to figure that one out.

Faulk had his best season by far Manning's rookie year. He led the league in YFS, on a team that went 3-13.

And you just keep on digging. Faulk's best season, in terms of YFS (an asinine stat to be staking your claim on, but the one you're using) was in STL. He tallied 2429 in 1999, which was more than 200 yards more than what he tallied with Manning.

In STL, Faulk's first 3 seasons led to y/c of 5.5, 5.4 and 5.3. Those years also saw y/r of 12.0, 10.2 and 9.2, and he was over 2000 yfs in all 3 seasons. Also, his TD numbers in his first 3 seasons in STL were higher than his Manning year in Indy.

For your own sake, just stop.

 

[Off The Grid]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Unless Brady has at least another MVP and/or Super Bowl run, Manning will be remembered as the better QB.

That's just the way it is. That's the public perception. Sure, lots of people would still pick Brady over Manning, but Manning will win the publicity battle. You can argue against it if you want but you might as well just bang you head against the wall.

Honestly, who gives a crap? They're both first ballot locks, top 10 all time QBs. Arguing which one is better is a waste of time.

Have you been ASLEEP the last 10 years, or WHAT??? :bricks:

***

Anyone with ONE Brain cell knows Brady is FAR better.

There are literally ZERO credible Arguments in Mannings favor.

That number, again:

ZERO.

I will certainly agree that there is no short supply of MORONS in the national media who's AGENDA is to pimp Manning, for various nefarious reasons...But anyone worth listening to must surely perceive that which is RIDICULOUSLY obvious.

 

[Off The Grid]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

If they both retired today, Manning had a better career.

 

[RWayne911]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

This a pats forum, you moron. Go back to your clots forum if you want rose petals to be thrown before his majesty Peyton Manning.

Since I picked your argument apart limb by limb, this is what you resort to?

How can anyone complain that a colts oline that leads the league in fewest sacks allowed almost every year isn't that good? The Colts oline is certainly better than the Patriots.

Do you even watch Colts games? The Colts have been AT LEAST 29th in running in 2008, 2009, and 2010. Polian's first two draft picks were offensive linemen this year. What do you know about football?

The only reason Manning doesn't get sacked is because he is the quickest decision maker in football. I can't believe you just said the Colts O-Line is better than the Patriots.

Last 4 years, rushing rankings:

2010:
Colts: 29th
Patriots: 9th

2009:
Colts: 32nd (And made it to the Super Bowl)
Patriots: 12th

2008:
Colts: 31st
Patriots: 6th

2007:
Colts: 18th
Patriots: 13th

This isn't even close. The Patriots have a FAR better run blocking line. The Colts have been the worst running team in the league since 2008, I don't even know what you are debating. And if you watch the games, the only reason our Quarterback doesn't get sacked is because he gets the ball out faster then anyone in the league, point blank, period.

"Certainly better then the Patriots". Are you dumb? The Colts drafted two offensive linemen in the first two rounds. If their so good, and their so solidified, and much better then the Patriots, then why the hell is our entire line revamped? You have no chance with this argument, drop it while you still can.

And If Brady's oline is so otherworldly good, why did it allow the most sacks in the NFL in 2008 with Matt Cassel?

Because it was his first year starting since high school, maybe? Inexperienced Quarterbacks make offensive lines look a lot worse then they are, it's common sense. You are more moronic then I think, you don't use any logic.

Pierre Garcon is a sixth round draft pick and Austin Collie is a fourth round. SFW. Wes Welker was undrafted, Aaron Hernandez is a fourth round draft pick. Danny Woodhead is undrafted. Troy Brown was an eighth round draft pick.

You failed to acknowledge the fact that

a) Welker was successful before Brady. Not as successful, but he gave NE a few fits with MIA.

b) Troy Brown had a great season before Brady even got there.

c) Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie were getting their first EVER NFL game experience in 2009. That was never the case with Welker, Woodhead, or Troy Brown. Manning was essentially working with two late round rookies, FAR from an all-star cast. And you didn't even acknowledge that he did this with NO running game. You Patriots fan really do take your running game for granted. How comical.

Seasons that Tom Brady's leading receiver was a first round draft pick : 2007

Seasons that Peyton Manning's leading receiver was a first round draft pick: 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010.

Brady has done more with less and Manning has done less with more.

Because Manning's leading receiver was a first round pick doesn't conclude Brady has done more with less. What the f*ck are you on? All this proves is that Manning actually develops chemistry with his 1st round picks and nobody in the league has had an answer for it since he came into the league.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

You are more moronic then I think, you don't use any logic.

I'll admit: I chuckled.

 

[RWayne911]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

\
He's won only 2 mvps that he deserved. The same as Tom Brady.

Once again, the arrogant Patriots fan stating his opinion.

How about you stay from your HORRIBLE and AWFUL opinions that NOBODY cares to see, and state some facts?

Manning has 4 MVPs.

He won them in 2003, 2004, 2008, and 2009.

And what's funnier is that the 2008 MVP was the most impressive one. Coming off a knee surgery 30 pounds short of his normal weight, with the 30th ranked running game, soft defense, out-of-prime Harrison, and a 3-4 start -- The Colts still went 12-4 and made the playoffs due to Manning's 9 4th quarter comebacks.

Sorry, he has FOUR MVPs. Now move along.

 

[Off The Grid]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

How can anyone but the most mordant Manning suck up not see that Brady is better, and by no small measure?

PERFECT!! :rocker:

 

[Off The Grid]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Volume stats measure your ability to play for a long time. They're worth something, but anything that has Brett Favre ranked #1 of all time is inherently not worth much. While we're at it, let's go ahead and crown Morten Andersen as the best football player ever, since he personally scored over 2,500 points.

Someone should also break the news to Joe Montana that Vinny Testaverde was a better quarterback than he was.

He *did* throw for more yards and touchdowns, after all.

BEAUTIFULL!! :rocker:

 

[Off The Grid]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Someone mentioned Gale Sayers earlier.

He's a great example. He's always talked about among the best ever, but he's also always ultimately discounted because of his short career.

How many lists include him in the top 3 or 5 all-time?

Um...How about...

ALL of them???

Watching you flail and rail in Payton's defense is HILARIOUS!! God BLESS you!! :rocker:

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Someone mentioned Gale Sayers earlier. He's a great example. He's always talked about among the best ever, but he's also always ultimately discounted because of his short career. How many lists include him in the top 3 or 5 all-time?

Don Shula, Marv Levy, Emmitt Thomas, Jack Bushofsky, Dan Reeves, Jerry Richardson, Robert Smith and Floyd Reese helped ESPN.com evaluate the best running backs in NFL history. ESPN.com weighed their contributions, balancing rankings with anecdotal evidence and statistics to create the following list:

ESPN, first place to go when looking for lists since they have lists for everything, has Sayers at #5.

After Jim Brown, best-ever RB debate gets interesting - NFL - ESPN

First search, first find. Top 5.

 

[JJDChE]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

ESPN, first place to go when looking for lists since they have lists for everything, has Sayers at #5.

After Jim Brown, best-ever RB debate gets interesting - NFL - ESPN

First search, first find. Top 5.

n=1


Go find a few more.


Either way, doesn't matter, longevity is important.

 

[Jetssuck]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Since I picked your argument apart limb by limb, this is what you resort to?



Do you even watch Colts games? The Colts have been AT LEAST 29th in running in 2008, 2009, and 2010. Polian's first two draft picks were offensive linemen this year. What do you know about football?

The only reason Manning doesn't get sacked is because he is the quickest decision maker in football. I can't believe you just said the Colts O-Line is better than the Patriots.

Profootball focus best pass protecting oline: Indianapolis Colts FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 OFFENSIVE LINES

You watch footbal on tv and that makes you a world authority on football? Lol

Last 4 years, rushing rankings:

2010:
Colts: 29th
Patriots: 9th

2009:
Colts: 32nd (And made it to the Super Bowl)
Patriots: 12th

2008:
Colts: 31st
Patriots: 6th

2007:
Colts: 18th
Patriots: 13th

This isn't even close. The Patriots have a FAR better run blocking line. The Colts have been the worst running team in the league since 2008, I don't even know what you are debating. And if you watch the games, the only reason our Quarterback doesn't get sacked is because he gets the ball out faster then anyone in the league, point blank, period.

"Certainly better then the Patriots". Are you dumb? The Colts drafted two offensive linemen in the first two rounds. If their so good, and their so solidified, and much better then the Patriots, then why the hell is our entire line revamped? You have no chance with this argument, drop it while you still can.

Big deal. Brady won a superbowl with one of the lowest ranking run games. He outdoes Manning on everything.

Because it was his first year starting since high school, maybe? Inexperienced Quarterbacks make offensive lines look a lot worse then they are, it's common sense. You are more moronic then I think, you don't use any logic.

You failed to acknowledge the fact that

He was sacked alot his second year too, but this time with the Chiefs. Is he ineperienced every year?

a) Welker was successful before Brady. Not as successful, but he gave NE a few fits with MIA.

b) Troy Brown had a great season before Brady even got there.

c) Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie were getting their first EVER NFL game experience in 2009. That was never the case with Welker, Woodhead, or Troy Brown. Manning was essentially working with two late round rookies, FAR from an all-star cast. And you didn't even acknowledge that he did this with NO running game. You Patriots fan really do take your running game for granted. How comical.

Welker was not successful before Brady. Making things is not going to help your case.

Marvin Harrison's seasons without Peyton Manning were better than Troy Brown, Danny Woodhead, and Wes Welker's seasons without Brady.

Garcon was drafted in 2008 moron.

Collie was playing his first season with Manning in 2009 as was Aaron Hernandez playing his first season with Brady in 2010. Your Point?

Only a Colt dimwit can try to pass off Mannings season with 2 all-pros as utterly amazing.

Because Manning's leading receiver was a first round pick doesn't conclude Brady has done more with less. What the f*ck are you on? All this proves is that Manning actually develops chemistry with his 1st round picks and nobody in the league has had an answer for it since he came into the league.

It proves he needs to be surrounded with alot of top flight talent provided by the best general manager in football.

Why does Polian use so many precious top draft picks on ol, wr, and te. According to you, Manning doesn't need them? The Colts should fire Polian and hire you.

 

[JJDChE]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Have you been ASLEEP the last 10 years, or WHAT??? :bricks:

***

Anyone with ONE Brain cell knows Brady is FAR better.

There are literally ZERO credible Arguments in Mannings favor.

That number, again:

ZERO.

I will certainly agree that there is no short supply of MORONS in the national media who's AGENDA is to pimp Manning, for various nefarious reasons...But anyone worth listening to must surely perceive that which is RIDICULOUSLY obvious.

You have literally ZERO credibility after one post in this thread.

Congrats. You get an ultrahomer sticker, too.

 

[Jetssuck]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Once again, the arrogant Patriots fan stating his opinion.

How about you stay from your HORRIBLE and AWFUL opinions that NOBODY cares to see, and state some facts?

Manning has 4 MVPs.

He won them in 2003, 2004, 2008, and 2009.

And what's funnier is that the 2008 MVP was the most impressive one. Coming off a knee surgery 30 pounds short of his normal weight, with the 30th ranked running game, soft defense, out-of-prime Harrison, and a 3-4 start -- The Colts still went 12-4 and made the playoffs due to Manning's 9 4th quarter comebacks.

Sorry, he has FOUR MVPs. Now move along.

Nobody cares to see my "awful" opinions? Your speaking for everybody in this patriots forum? What rock did you just crawl from under?

Even though Manning had nothing but 2 all-pros in 2008, Phillip Rivers and Adrian Peterson were more deserving of mvp that year.

Drew Brees 2009 season blew away Manning's 2009. The voters should have been wearing masks when they turned in that ballot.