Ex-Illinois coach Ron Zook lauds Tavon Wilson's versatility

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Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
Honestly, you people make no sense sometimes trying to defend BB choices.



Can't disagree there, given the abject failure this franchise has been I don't know how or why we defend him either, guess we are just sycophants. Now if they had won multiple Super Bowls and were on some historic run of success it would be different story altogether, but given how much they suck it is mindboggling that we continue to stand by him. Just koolaid drinking homers with rose colored glasses.
 
Re: Ex-Illinois coach lauds tavon wilson's versatility

The fact that BB took him at #48 tells me:
1. More than one team had him rated that high.
2.BB was informed that another team was getting ready to take Wilson.
3. If no other team wanted Wilson in the middle if the second round, BB would have traded #48 and got more, then taken Wilson at 62.

I read somewhere that San Diego would have pulled the trigger. It also appears that seven teams worked him out.

Hardly an under the radar guy.

The point about Mayock was he qualified he didn't know anything about the kid but opined as best he knew.

Nobody should have zero problem with Mayock's analysis. The reality is the volume of study combined with the needs of 32 distinct organizations make hard to cover everything.

Kiper fits right in with our village idiots; completely clueless yet highly opinionated. That's the real problem here.
 

DarrylS

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2019 Weekly Picks Winner
A great deal of prognositication, and bantering about the knowledge of the draft pundits..

Many of us will reserve judgement until about the 10th game, then we will see what value he does or does not have.

The reality is that the second round is at best a crap shoot, here is something to compare the second round to, keep in mind we have had a couple of years of pretty good second round pix..

Pittsburgh..

2011.. Marcus Gilbert..OT currently starts for the Steelers
2010.. Jason Worilds.. playing ok, but seems to be a work in progress
2009.. no second round pick
2008.. Limus Sweed... has been waived
2007.. Lamar Woodley.. great pick
2006.. no second round pick

Miami's vaunted 2nd round picks..

2011...Daniel Thomas RB.. looks like a good pick
2010..Koa Missa. LB.. work in progress
2009..Pat White. QB... not in the game
2008..Phillip Merling.. not in the game
Chad Henne..
2007.. John Beck. QB...traded to the Redskins
Samson Satele.. C.. good pick
2006..no pick

The Jets absolutely wonderful 2nd round picks..

2011... no second round pick
2010.. Vladimir DuCasse
2009.. Shonn Greene
2008 .. no second round pick
2007.. David Harris
2006.. Kellen Clemens
2005... Mike Nugent
Justin Miller..


The Green Bay Packers recent 2ndround picks..

2011.. Randall Cobb
2010.. Mike Neal.. oft injuried
2009.. no second round pick
2008..Brian Brohm.. no longer in the NFL
Patrick lee.. marginal player
2007..Brandon Jackson.. marginal player now with the Browns.
2006...Darren Colledge..starting O lineman now with the Cardinals
Greg Jennings
2005..Nick Collins.. a pro bowler on IR
Terrence Murphy retired from the NFL..
 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
Who said he is ruining the franchise?


You need to pay more attention, there are a whole bunch of posters here who have been shreiking about Belichik's drafts and how he has been squandering Brady's prime with all his terrible drafts. One even claimed they hadn't won a Super Bowl in 11 years. the clamor has gotten so loud that even Patsfans decided to run an article asking whether they are right or not, when in fact a 10 year analysis of the draft for the entire league rated the Patriots the best, and that was using a criteria applied to the entire league, as opposed to a survey of disgruntled patriot draftniks who were pissed there binkies were passed by year after year.
 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
Who said he is ruining the franchise?
You don't think guys like Mayock watch tape? Which guys don't watch any tape, the guys on Bleacher Report?

Media guys are entitled to their opinion. That's their jobs and we support their jobs by clicking on their sites.



There are media guys who actually do there homework and deserve some respect for it, and Mayock is one of them, but like everyone else they are going to miss on as many prospects as the teams do, at best. People don't seem to realize just how many prospects everyone misses on, but Daryl S just posted a tally that demonstrates just how bad many 2nd rounds are, and the only way one can rate a team's success is in context, which the critics here refuse to do.
 

Gronkandez

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
The fact that BB took him at #48 tells me:
1. More than one team had him rated that high.
2.BB was informed that another team was getting ready to take Wilson.
3. If no other team wanted Wilson in the middle if the second round, BB would have traded #48 and got more, then taken Wilson at 62.

That assumes there were options to trade down. We saw what he took at 62, not exactly a value trade. I believe BB was determined to trade down with the 62nd pick after unsucessfully trying at 48. To me this means there was uncertainty as to where the Pats would pick again after 48, prob not for another 30+ picks. So he took Wilson instead of waiting for him in the 3rd round.



My theory is that Bill Belichick enters the draft with a "short stack" of players he wants to come away with at certain positions, and he tries to work the board to pick them at the right value spots. In the case of Wilson, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he got stuck when he couldn't find a deal. So what's the alternative? You pick the player higher than you'd like and concede on the value.

Patriots mailbag: Second-guessing Bill Belichick - ESPN Boston
 

goheels22002

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Sorry, but seriously, what does his coach know? We have many draft experts right here who apparently researched his game tape extensively prior to the draft despite the fact that he wasn't invited to the combine and wasn't listed in any of the draft guides. These guys really do there homework and have apparently studied extensively and analyzed every player in college football, and they know what Belichick and his staff clearly don't, that Tavon sucks. Mel may not have researched Tavon, but our very own draft gurus clearly have, and have shared their insights on him based on their extensive knowledge of his play, we shouldn't take issue with their research and findings.

Ron Zook has six seasons in the NFL with the Steelers, Chiefs and Saints, where he was Defensive Coordinator. He's a credible source for the comments he made in the piece.

I also think Ras-I Dowling made them like this comment by Zook "He also acknowledges Wilson’s affinity for contact, noting, “He’s not a guy that’s ever hurt.”

Tavon Wilson may or may not pan out but he brings maturity and leadership to the secondary. My guess is that the Patriots like him for his versatility, his tackling ability, and for what they saw him do as a safety for a 2nd tier Big Ten team against first tier receivers.
 
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Wax Frog

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
“He’s not a guy that’s ever hurt.”

Naive though it might make me, I'd like to think that counts for something around here ;)
 

BradyMossWelker

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
LOL

Somebody hand this guy a pointy hat and make some room over there in the corner.

It's obvious all the experts watched hours of tape on the kid.

You can tell that because none of them knew who he was.:eek:

That's why you disregard the guy who coached him for four years!!!:confused:

Yeah, genius on display.

I'm speechless by so many good arguments.

You're right. They have never seen Wilson play. They saw Mercilus play, but they never watched tape on Wilson. Tavon was a beast in college, it's weird the draft experts considered him a 7th rounder when he was creating havoc in the Illinois defense behind Mercilus.

I mean, don't you agree Steeler? They suck so much, that when they saw tape on Mercilus (if they did. I mean, they are awful that I dont know if they watched film on the sack leader in the nation), they didn't see that Wilson was clearly a top 3 safety in the draft.

Genius, like always, pittsburgh( great pick in DeCastro).
 

BradyMossWelker

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Can't disagree there, given the abject failure this franchise has been I don't know how or why we defend him either, guess we are just sycophants. Now if they had won multiple Super Bowls and were on some historic run of success it would be different story altogether, but given how much they suck it is mindboggling that we continue to stand by him. Just koolaid drinking homers with rose colored glasses.

Honestly, you think BB is god or something like that?

I love BB, he is a top 5 coach of all time. But he makes mistakes, you know?

Did you know players Bill has drafted, have busted? Can you believe that?

And I'm not saying Wilson will bust. I think he was a reach, but it doesn't mean he is a mistake.
 

PatsWickedPissah

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Personally I'm tired of hearing how "versatile" Wilson is. Christ, I was freakin' versatile. I played DE, NT, and MLB in college, and OLB and S after. I was damned versatile. One small problem. I wasn't GOOD ENOUGH to play on the next level. So I don't want to hear how "versatile Wilson is. I want to hear how good a football player he is.

Nice read though ;)

Why all the hate for folks named Wilson? :mad:
 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
I knew nothing about him until after the draft, and I still know very little, however what I read I like. He's 6'0 205 with CB speed and experience in a variety of DB roles in a good conference. He's a leader, who hits and doesn't get hurt, and he's coming to a secondary that really needed help. from what i can tell the only real knock on him is that he was overlooked by the draft gurus, which really isn't that surprising as the entire process from the outside is an exercise in groupthink, and we all watch as similar mocks and rankings come out in February and then mimic each other in risers and fallers right up to draft day. And while some do a good job of laying out the top 100 prospects they all miss on where they go, and there are always surprises, Tavon Wilson falls into that category, as Vollmer was before him. Whether the draft gurus just missed or Belichick made the wrong call won't be determined for a few years to come.


I just hope belichick nailed this pick, because if he's right they have filled out their secondary with some really good young players. Until they play in the fall it can't be called, but looking at it right now I feel much much better about their secondary than i did at the end of last season. I look forward to i-Dowling contributing and i really believe McCourty will come back to form. gregory was a solid pick-up and Dennard has potential to accimoany the baggage, and that potential could well be at safety, which means they have 3-4 if not 5 options for upgrading the position. (McCourty/Gregory/I-Dowling/Wilson/ Dennard.) Great work by Belichick in addressing the need emphatically.

I love the young defense, although they have much to prove. I love the young talent on D, where the back 7 in particular has been loaded up with players. Mayo is in his prime and Ninkovich is solid, but Spikes, Jones, Hightower, McCourty, Arrington, I-Dowling, and Chung are really good young players to build around, and now they can add the other draft picks to the mix in the secondary.

I'm not going to wish the summer away but i am looking forward to camp reports and the pre-season, where we get to see them on the field.
 

PatsWickedPissah

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I cannot WAIT to get my butt down to camp this summah and eval these guys myself. As of the day after the draft whatever they did or did not do in college is irrelevant. The OTAs and July/Aug will make or break these kids.
 
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Trycked

Practice Squad Player
Honestly, you think BB is god or something like that?
What do you mean THINK???

I love BB, he is a top 5 coach of all time. But he makes mistakes, you know?
Blasphemy!

Did you know players Bill has drafted, have busted? Can you believe that?
Nope, not one has ever busted, they were SO awesome that other teams wanted them.

And I'm not saying Wilson will bust. I think he was a reach, but it doesn't mean he is a mistake.
That's Hall of Famer Tavon Wilson to you buddy.
 

Seneschal2

In the Starting Line-Up
I posted the following in it's own thread, but it seems to fit better here:

Longtime HC at Illinois (now former) was Ron Zook. Fans on a message board created an All Zook-era team. Tavon was paired w/ Vontae Davis (former 1st round pick) as the two CBs on that team. Reading on, one poster suggested this:

move Tavon to FS. He was good there and a real striker.
On another Illinois board came this:

Tavon Wilson showed his experience throughout camp and was the best one-on-one defender. He is also a true leader.
To summarize, those who've observed Tavon closely say he's a true leader, their best one-on-one defender, and worthy enough to make the all era team as both a CB and Safety.

And finally (perhaps most importantly), his position coach is one of the most respected coaches at both the Pro and College level - Mike Gillhamer. 21 years as a coach, 7 years coaching Safeties for the Carolina Panthers , and 8 college programs coaching DBs. He and Tavon reportedly had a Father/Son-like relationship. I'd say that Tavon was taught by one of the best at how to play his position.

And as a side note, Coach Gillhamer is now back in the Pros, just being hired as the Indy Colts new DB coach. And when researching the Indy reaction to his hiring, I saw one Colts mock listing Tavon as one of their picks. The reason? Gillhamer. The Colts of course had two third-rounders following #48, making it possible that Tavon could have been one of those picks. Speculative I know, but keep in mind that Belichick & Co. have their ears to the ground on such matters -- FWIW.
 

AzPatsFan

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
It has been suggested that only a safe, secure Coach like Belichick, would have drafted an overlooked guy like Tavon Wilson in the second round. There were certainly other palyers at other positions, that were second round draftees.

But there were no Free Safeties after Harrison from Notre Dame. Tavon may well have been the third best Safety, or rather the second best Free Safety available in this draft. Bellichick wanted a Free Safety, as that was the weakest position on the Team, and he knows a Team like a chain, is only as strong as its weakest link.

According to Mike Reiss, there were seven other teams who worked Tavon out, including San Diego, Baltimore, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, and Indianapolis.

AJ Smith in San Diego, Ozzie Newsome in Baltimore, Thomas Dinsmore (sp?) in Atlanta, the Pittsburgh scouting group, all are no shrinking violets afraid of their own shadows. They are accomplished drafters, who have taken people that they judge are qualified despite the conventional wisdom. In addition, his ex-DB Coach at Illinois, now the DC at Indy and his mentor, surely knew of his talent, and the Colts needed a S too.

Indeed, AJ drafted a Safety on the next pick at #49. Gallimore the Indy DC was his mentor at the Illini, and loved him.

It appears as was true with Sebastion Vollmer, that Tavon Wilson was a guy who fell in the cracks, possibly because he played wherever needed, and had no fixed position. Making it difficult to pick him for all-League Teams, and hence for the All-Star games and Combine.

I recall Joel Butchbaum, the original Draftnik and FOB, discussing how he was able to compile his scouting lists, as a one man operation when the BLESTO scouting operation spent millions and had hundreds of scouts.

He said he screened the All-league teams, and Allstar team rosters, and Combine invitations, to cut the collegiate player lists to a manageble number of a few hundred; and then watched as many All star games as possible.

He admitted that it was difficult to find the small school standouts, and good players who were not invited to an All-Star team. Sometimes he overlooked them. He said as he got known and made friends with some pro scouts, they would feed him some tidbits of information. That helped. Sometimes he thought he was being used to spread disinformation, though.

I suspect that is how many of the amateur Draftniks operate their hobby. So I can see Tavon, a player from a big talented Conference, playing on a losing team, not at a set position, would get overlooked amidst all the stars in the League.
 
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It has been suggested that only a safe, secure Coach like Belichick, would have drafted an overlooked guy like Tavon Wilson in the second round. There were certainly other palyers at other positions, that were second round draftees.

But there were no Free Safeties after Harrison from Notre Dame. Tavon may well have been the third best Safety, or rather the second best Free Safety available in this draft. Bellichick wanted a Free Safety, as that was the weakest position on the Team, and he knows a Team like a chain, is only as strong as its weakest link.

According to Mike Reiss, there were seven other teams who worked Tavon out, including San Diego, Baltimore, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, and Indianapolis.

AJ Smith in San Diego, Ozzie Newsome in Baltimore, Thomas Dinsmore (sp?) in Atlanta, the Pittsburgh scouting group, all are no shrinking violets afraid of their own shadows. They are accomplished drafters, who have taken people that they judge are qualified despite the conventional wisdom. In addition, his ex-DB Coach at Illinois, now the DC at Indy and his mentor, surely knew of his talent, and the Colts needed a S too.

Indeed, AJ drafted a Safety on the next pick at #49. Gallimore the Indy DC was his mentor at the Illini, and loved him.

It appears as was true with Sebastion Vollmer, that Tavon Wilson was a guy who fell in the cracks, possibly because he played wherever needed, and had no fixed position. Making it difficult to pick him for all-League Teams, and hence for the All-Star games and Combine.

I recall Joel Butchbaum, the original Draftnik and FOB, discussing how he was able to compile his scouting lists, as a one man operation when the BLESTO scouting operation spent millions and had hundreds of scouts.

He said he screened the All-league teams, and Allstar team rosters, and Combine invitations, to cut the collegiate player lists to a manageble number of a few hundred; and then watched as many All star games as possible.

He admitted that it was difficult to find the small school standouts, and good players who were not invited to an All-Star team. Sometimes he overlooked them. He said as he got known and made friends with some pro scouts, they would feed him some tidbits of information. That helped. Sometimes he thought he was being used to spread disinformation, though.

I suspect that is how many of the amateur Draftniks operate their hobby. So I can see Tavon, a player from a big talented Conference, playing on a losing team, not at a set position, would get overlooked amidst all the stars in the League.

AZ

You completely nailed

Kudos

The "jack of all trades" college career helped the kid fall through the cracks.

It's obvious this is the exact reason BB focused so much energy on him.

As Mo said in another thread, safeties and CB's will begin to morph into just DB's.

All teams will have CB-safeties and safety-CB's in the secondary.
 

RayClay

Hall of Fame Poster
Why is Kiper ill-informed and why did you single him out? Is there one scout or media guy out there who had him as high as a 4th round value?

PS. no one here is questioning the guy's versatility.

If you'll recall the pick, (ESPN) John Gruden immediately mentioned how coach Zook had wondered why people weren't touting Wilson, when they came to look at Mercilus and Janoris Jenkins.

It was actually pretty hilarious as, once again, Kiper got caught totally befuddled, fuming about how all these coaches (like ex coach Gruden) didn't know what they were talking about. :D
 
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