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"Every Little Thing Gonna Be Alright"

2020 Patriots Season:
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Steve:Section 102

A lion isn't concerned with the opinion of sheep
PatsFans.com Supporter
I can't reply in the Post-Game thread because of the overwhelming tide of negativity. There are calls for BB to step down as GM or to revamp scouting or to do something different than what he's done over the last 20 years.

Folks, this is a transition. We've seen this before.

2005. 2010. & now 2020.

Chill out. BB hasn't shown you he knows how to build a roster? How much more does he need to show you? Only difference between 2005 & 2010 & 2020 is Tom Brady. But that doesn't mean 2021 can't be like 2006 or 2011 or 2012 if we get a more competent QB.

The only thing BB needs to do for me is get an NFL good quality starting QB. That's it. Or maybe actually a TE too. The WRs will take care of themselves after that.

Because I'm confident in all these aspects of the team:

1. The RBs with Damien Harris & Taylor, Michel if he's still around, and James White as backup. Jakob Johnson opening holes.
2. The OL has been spectacular. Opening huge running lanes when Ds know they are running it. Protecting Cam--he has all day to throw. All the sacks are on him. Look at that OL: Wynn, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Onwenu, Herron backing it up. Great OL.
3. DBs: JC Jackson, Gilmore (he'll be back because of his contract, or he'll be a holdout), D McCourty, J Jones, Myles Bryant, JJ Williams. We have great depth there.
4. Back 7 big safeties and LBs who can cover RBs and TEs: Dugger, Uche, Chung. Hoping Terez Hall can pick up on that end as well.

These are fantastic building blocks, which leads me point #...:

5. We have a ton of salary cap space. A ton. We are going to be buying while other teams are jettisoning solid veteran talent on big contracts. It's going to happen. It has to happen. And because everyone will be up against the cap, the FA market is not going to command huge contracts (which is why I feel confident about retaining Gilmore and Thuney).
6. Yes, we need help at DL (hopefully Jennings will develop), and TE, and WR, and even LB (we need more speed there), but this is what FA and the draft are for.

This is going to be a classic Belichick revamp and I fully expect we'll compete for the division next year & also make the playoffs.

Getting a competent QB is of course crucial to that, but I think Belichick can do that. My only real concern other than QB is TE because unlike the WR position, good TEs aren't abundant. It will take luck to find someone to man that position.

We're OK. BB the GM knows how to build a team. He has shown this repeatedly. We already have a lot of good pieces who are either young or mid career (Wynn, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Onwenu, Herron, Taylor, Harris, Myers, maybe Byrd, Jennings, Uche, Dugger, T Hall, JC Jackson, JJ Jones, Phillips, JJ Williams, M Bryant, Bailey). BB can build on the 20 players who are already here.

Jeez, it's one losing season out of 20, and we have the greatest coach and talent assembler of all time.
I would say the only issues with this is I would not count on McCourty and Chung going forward. Same with High.

The closest rebuild I would compare this to is the 2001 off season. There's a lot of holes, as there was on that team. Bill filled those holes much faster than expected and we know the outcome. With the availability of cap space, I am confident he will bring in the right pieces to fill the majority of holes. The main issue is the QB position. Cam is horrible, the receivers are horrible. Need at least one of each.
 

Triumph

Hall of Fame Poster
There is a storm on the AFCE horizon.

Buffalo

Everyone can agree that Buffalo has improved.

I lobbied for Allen to be the first QB taken in that draft. I believed then and still do that Allen is better than Mayfield. My theory was that the very raw Allen needed fine tuning and development to be good. Wyoming was nothing close to an NFL offense. Buffalo has done a good job grooming Allen. Josh Allen has grown, but he needs to take the next step to be in the upper echelon QB discussion. The table is set for him this season with the only perks missing are homefield throughout and the 1st round bye. Still, Allen needs to show up big IMO and at least make it to KC and give them a game before we can put him on a pedestal.

Buffalo is potentially set for the foreseeable future.

Miami

Miami has obviously gotten better. Miami is a team to watch for in this post season. They wont go all the way, but they are going to spoil somebody's party.

Thus far, Flores is very impressive as a HC. He has the Dolphins playing good ball and their defense is ranked # 1. I do not know about Tua going forward, but presently, Fitz/Tua is working out for them. Fitzpatrick always seems to come in and save the day and then go in the tank and back to the bench. Fitz is 4 - 3 and Tua 6 - 2. 4 out of the 5 Dolphins losses are by 1 score - 6 points vs KC, 7 points @ Denver, 8 points vs Seattle and 3 points vs Buffalo. But, Buffalo is better now and that was game 2 in the FLA sunshine.

Cant say that Tua is the answer, but it appears that Miami found a good HC finally.

Whats alarming is that Miami has 2 - 1st round 2021 picks, They presently own the 3rd pick in the draft via Houston. Looks like they are going to add some good players in 2021. Not good news for the Patriots.

New York

Yes, its easy to laugh at a team at the bottom. Unfortunately, GM Joe Douglas is a very competent GM. He fleeced Seattle out of 2 - 1st round picks for 2007 1st round Jamal Adams. Damn good horse trading if you ask me. The Jets have the 2nd pick in this draft locked down win or lose vs NE next Sunday. Becton was a great pick last draft and Mims has shown promise, but has battled injuries. Justin Herbert has really opened some eyes and there is bound to be a another good QB down the board in this draft too. Who knows what the Jets plan is for QB going forward, but if Kyle Trask falls in this draft and the Jets take him its going to be hell for the Pats.

What Im trying to tell yall is that the Pats will be sitting down there where the Jets are this minute if this off season including the draft is a $hitshow. No, not with 2 or 3 wins, but in the basement of the AFCE as the others get better. Struggling at the bottom.

I dont like it anymore than you do.
 

UGAPatsfan

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
QB is not the only problem. Defense is truly awful in the front 7, the issues ar WR and TE are glaring, AND Thune, Andrew's, and JC are in line for big $$$. This isn't a 1 year fix
 

bormio

In the Starting Line-Up
QB has to be fixed. Getting a franchise QB would be great, but it may not happen. But you need someone competent to throw the ball. I think NE is remaking itself as a run first team. A TE who can at least block is a real need. Being able to catch would be a bonus. This is not all bad, with many teams featuring lighter, mobile defenses. A stretch the field WR is also a need, so as to takes advantage when teams load the box. On defense, the back end is better than the front, but there is youth to develop. Need a couple special players in the front seven - this might be the place to fill early in the draft (unless a QB you like falls in your lap).
 

ashley1992

Moderator
Staff member
PatsFans.com Supporter
Actually, I've been positive about the future with Belichick, but banning people for disagreeing with you is indeed extreme. I do have a solution to your dilemma though.
I never have or never will ban people for disagreeing with me...a constant argument for posters that troll...if you would like to discuss further, please pm me and I'll be happy to discuss further. I won't bore other posters with this though.
 

haripi2

On the Game Day Roster
I am hoping stidham lights up the jets and shows some promise. Maybe takes a leaf out of josh allen and shows a giant 3rd year leap . This will help us to avoid the major Qb problem .

Now the second wish is that Harry converts to a tight end and becomes Jr. Gronk (50% ) . That solves problem 2 and asiasi and keene become decent complementary pieces.

We trade down and pick three picks between 25 - 45 and draft studs at linebacker, pass rusher and a speedy wide receiver . Later rounds draft cornerback, more pass rushers , receivers and a qb with potential .

And in free agency sign after June 1st offensive tackle , cornerback, nose tackle and a wr 1 ( someone like diggs).

Trade Gilmore for 2022 first rounder and go all in with stidham fir 2021 . If stidham works its great, if not, we can draft or sign the franchise qb in 22 when we have a more well rounded team. No point burning dollars in qb in 2021 with so many open gaping holes.
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
The most important position in sports wasn't in flux. Brady allowed Bill to rebuild on the fly. Now Bill is going to change his strategy on how he builds a team. In all likelihood the Chris Hogan's and Brandon Lafell's of the world aren't going to cut it anymore. He also won't get higher end players (Moss, AB, Dillon) all happy to come here and take a little less for a chance at a ring. He is going to need to spend more on free agents and also draft significantly better. People are just assuming because it's Bill he can do it but he hasn't really done it before.
Of course it’s been done before. Teams with Tom Brady have actually been good teams and win sbs
 

Boomer B

In the Starting Line-Up
I think we are rebuilding, not reloading. We have holes at many positions that will take multiple drafts/offseasons to fill.

The main thing I see on our roster is a severe lack of upper end talent. In the first part of the dynasty we had Hall of Fame level talent in Seymour, Law, Moss, Vinatieri, Mankins, Harrison, Wilfork, and Brady. We had Pro Bowl level talent in Welker, McGinnest, Bruschi, Light, Brown, Dillon, Vrabel, and Samuel. In the 2nd half of the Dynasty we had Hall of Fame talent in Gronk and Brady. We had Pro Bowl level talent in Hightower, McCourty, Edelman, Thuney, Mayo, Gilmore, Jones, Hernandez, and Gostkowski. Where is the upper end talent now and in the next few seasons? Our best player (Gilmore & Thuney) likely won’t be on the team next year and our other upper tier talent guys (Edelman, McCourty, Hightower) are nearing the end. Sorry to say it but this team is filled with JAGs.

I think we are looking at a 3-4 year rebuild with a serious need of talent on our roster, starting at the QB position. WR, TE, D-line, and LB need to be rebuilt.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
This is where I disagree. I think he has been slow to adapt to the way the league is changing and I think it shows with the state of the roster. The game is basketball on grass and I still think he looks at it the way it was in 2001. The league is all about the vertical passing game. Speedy receivers on the outside, a slot guy underneath, and a pass catching TE. We all know Travis Kelce cant block in the least bit but he has something like 1400 yards this year but Bill is still looking for a Gronk type TE who can block and catch and Gronk's don't grow on trees. At this point you at TE you get a blocker or a pass catcher and we need pass catchers. On the flip side I don’t think he is drafting linebackers that can cover these basketball players on the other side. Uche looks to at least have the athleticism and hopefully Bill starts getting more athletic guys but the Bentley's and Hightower's of the world can't cover these shifty backs out of the backfield of these receiving TEs.

Basically we need to draft athletes. This roster needs speed ASAP. We can't pass on guys like Metcalf and Deebo and take plodders like Harry. We need a threat to take the top off the defense.

I actually agreed with you on the LBs. It's what I wrote in my post.

There are many different kinds of successful offenses that can be run still, and in terms of rarity, the rarest bird of all is a Pat Mahomes type. He's is one of a kind. Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray are not Mahomes.

As fr vertical passing games, how is this new? We were told about McVay and his new system, but they've been stifled. The only thing really new out there is Mahomes and the crazy dynamic of that offense, but it only runs because of Mahomes. Andy Reid has been around forever. He's finally found success.

I'll take Josh McDaniels instead. He's proven to be very innovative and ingenious in designing plays into open space. I'm not holding the bad QBing against him.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
I think the Pats are in excellent position to turn it around next year (tons of cap space where a lot of teams are going to have to cut good players just to get under the cap). But the ability to turn things around are now exponentially tougher than in the past without Brady. Brady could cover for a lot of personnel mistakes and areas of deficiency that this team had. I think Belichick can turn this thing around and make the Pats a Super Bowl contender as soon as 2021, but he has a lot more work to do this time.

Yes, absolutely. I mean, good QBs don't grow on trees. Everything is predicated on BB finding someone in the draft or else someone who is best served by moving on. Garoppolo and Stafford may be possibilities, but Wentz is not.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
I would say the only issues with this is I would not count on McCourty and Chung going forward. Same with High.

The closest rebuild I would compare this to is the 2001 off season. There's a lot of holes, as there was on that team. Bill filled those holes much faster than expected and we know the outcome. With the availability of cap space, I am confident he will bring in the right pieces to fill the majority of holes. The main issue is the QB position. Cam is horrible, the receivers are horrible. Need at least one of each.

I haven't even included the geezers in my rebuild math of a core of 20 players. Even if they are back for one more year, I don't see them as Super Bowl contenders next year. This is why I wrote contending for the division and making the playoffs. Super Bowl is down the road.
 

DropKickFlutie

In the Starting Line-Up
I hear you, but in 2005, things were challenging. The D was ravaged and the team was counting on Beisel & al. The team was aging and the weapons on O were few & far... that team was better than this season’s, but I remember thinking in 2005 « that was such a great run ! 3/4 ! »

People don’t remember how many holes the 2005 team had. Again, 2005 > 2020, but there wasn’t reason to believe they’d keep that train rolling as long as they did.

Not a good sign as it was 10 years from 05 till the next title
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
I think we are rebuilding, not reloading. We have holes at many positions that will take multiple drafts/offseasons to fill.

The main thing I see on our roster is a severe lack of upper end talent. In the first part of the dynasty we had Hall of Fame level talent in Seymour, Law, Moss, Vinatieri, Mankins, Harrison, Wilfork, and Brady. We had Pro Bowl level talent in Welker, McGinnest, Bruschi, Light, Brown, Dillon, Vrabel, and Samuel. In the 2nd half of the Dynasty we had Hall of Fame talent in Gronk and Brady. We had Pro Bowl level talent in Hightower, McCourty, Edelman, Thuney, Mayo, Gilmore, Jones, Hernandez, and Gostkowski. Where is the upper end talent now and in the next few seasons? Our best player (Gilmore & Thuney) likely won’t be on the team next year and our other upper tier talent guys (Edelman, McCourty, Hightower) are nearing the end. Sorry to say it but this team is filled with JAGs.

I think we are looking at a 3-4 year rebuild with a serious need of talent on our roster, starting at the QB position. WR, TE, D-line, and LB need to be rebuilt.

Good post, but I would answer this by saying that Shaq Mason is excellent, we still have Thuney and given the cap situations of other teams, where's he going to go? Wynn needs to stay healthy but he's an excellent LT. The OL is already there. Many of them are already highly regarded. Our RBs look good. As for players like McGinest, Bruschi, Light, Vrabel, Samuel, etc.? What were these players in their early years? Many like Bruschi and Vrabel didn't even play. It's way too pessimistic to call these players JAGs: Wynn, Mason, Onwenu, Dugger, D Harris, Taylor, Uche, JC Jackson, J Jones.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
Not a good sign as it was 10 years from 05 till the next title

It is really hard to win a Super Bowl, as those 10 years have proved.

Aaron Rodgers has won one SB. The perennially contending Steelers haven't won a Super Bowl in the last 10 years. Drew Brees, one Super Bowl.

Maybe this is where the disconnect of this thread is happening. I would take one SB victory over the next 10 years while hoping for two! Patriots fans have very high expectations, it seems. Rationally, we have to lower them.
 

skinnydog

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
I hear you, but in 2005, things were challenging. The D was ravaged and the team was counting on Beisel & al. The team was aging and the weapons on O were few & far... that team was better than this season’s, but I remember thinking in 2005 « that was such a great run ! 3/4 ! »

People don’t remember how many holes the 2005 team had. Again, 2005 > 2020, but there wasn’t reason to believe they’d keep that train rolling as long as they did.
Uh, the 2005 roster was loaded. Do you mean 2006? Still a good roster and likley go to the SB if they had paid Branch.
 

Wax Frog

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
There are other threads that you can spread your negativity to, can we keep this one positive? Lol
How dare you ask people to roll with the spirit of a humble solitary thread? *gasp* :p (yep, slow work day so far...)

Anyway, count me among those who believe that a 'fatty' NT, a solid vet WR/TE and a competent QB will go a long way toward healing the team's current ills. The Golden Age is over, but things will work out OK long term. This isn't suddenly the Sullivan/Kiam era again.
 
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