ESPN: Lombardi on Pats "starting price" for Cassel

[Box_O_Rocks]

Everyone seems to be missing what "starting price" means when you're offering a commodity. Rarely does the item go for the high 1st asking price.

I see your everyone and raise you $1.00

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

How is taking 6.6 million less in 2009 a win situation for Cassel??

Depends how much he gets guaranteed in 2010. Just because he would get more in 2010 if he makes it through 2009 doesn't guarantee him anything. None of us are guaranteed tomorrow, especially football players. I'm not saying he should take 2/20 but any guaranteed money over $14.8M is money that the one year contract does not guarantee. How much over is enough is the question.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

For the sake of discussion, let's just say Brady comes back healthy and wants to play four more years (I know in the past, he's said he wants to play much longer, but just for grins). What do you do with two starting QBs? I'm an old guy and I remember teams doing that: the old Rams had Bob Waterfield and Norm van Brocklin, both hall of famers, share for 4 or 5 years. The 49ers had three guys share the QB position a couple of years, but one of them was mostly a running QB, like out of a wildcat position. But, we're going back 40 - 50 years here, and I don't remember it being done since. I'm sure there have been a few other times teams have intentionally shared the QB position, but it's been more out of indecision of who's better.

Again, what do you do with two proven starting QBs? I'm the type that hates to see good players move on, and I'd hate to lose either of them, but.....

That was pre Salary Cap. A different universe.

 

[Canada's #1 Pats Fan]

I think Cassel will work with the Patriots as the relationship is very good. Pats took the chance of drafting him and stuck with him thereby allowing the opportunity for him to prove himself. He likely would have been out of the league if the Pats hadn't stuck with him this season. He knows that and he'll have an open mind towards discussions about staying and signing a longer term contract.

you hope his agent hasn't messed with his head.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

you hope his agent hasn't messed with his head.

Cassel strikes me as a thoughtfull, mature guy who's centered. He's married and has responsibilities but he's not somebody who has shown that he's totally self-absorbed and unrealistic. I'm confident he'll make the best choices career wise. It's up to the Pats organization to present him with options reasonably congruent with that goal. If they can and if they do, he's astute enough to know a win-win.

 

[Fencer]

This is the perfect situation if a deal could be made :

The National Football Post | Notes From Lombardi

"I know that Minnesota is going to explore every possible idea for a starting quarterback. The Vikings know they need to make the move there; Tarvaris Jackson’s days as a starter are over in the Twin Cities."

We get to put him in the NFC, a team that needs a QB who can play now gets him and Cassel gets to go to a contender.

Win. Win. Win.

After the Jared Allen deal, what does Minny have to trade in the way of picks?

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

After the Jared Allen deal, what does Minny have to trade in the way of picks?

All the picks they traded were 2008 picks so they should have a full complement; their pick availability won't be affected by the Allen deal anyway.

 

[spacecrime]

Thats why I was saying before that if the Chiefs gave us their #2, thats at 35
If they threw in Tyler Thigpen that would give the Patriots some Brady insurance.

I would take the Ciefs first round pick for Cassel just fine, but if they throw in Thigpen, then I would want their first and second round picks to compensate.

 

[IcyPatriot]

You have Stafford and Bradford as possible top 10 picks. Stafford is being compared to Matt Hasselbeck ... be still my beating heart. If there was ever a year where a guy like Cassel has value this is it. Grab yourself Cassel and one of the 3 or 4 1st round OT's and you're talking.

I think Belichick would take a 2nd this year and a conditional 1st or 2nd next year ... Bill doesn't really want a top 10 kid ... just some great value, or two ... or three.

 

[Miguel]

I'm not saying he should take 2/20

If you can not say that he should take 2/20, then it can not be a win-win for Cassel.

 

[Miguel]

If you can not say that he should take 2/20, then it can not be a win-win for Cassel.

Also, if Cassel wants to be a starter in 2009, why would he agree to a deal that makes it easier for the Pats to keep him as a backup??

 

[tombonneau]

I think Belichick would take a 2nd this year and a conditional 1st or 2nd next year ... Bill doesn't really want a top 10 kid ... just some great value, or two ... or three.

I don't know about that. The last two times the Pats had picks in the top 10 they ended up with Seymour & Mayo. I'll take those results.

 

[aluminum seats]

For me ? If we could get #35 I would be thrilled, I'd take it and run. From this article, though, it sounds like we would be asking for this year's #2 and next year's #1. That sounds AWFULLY pricey but I'm basing my response on what Lombardi and Reese said not what I would think.

Why in the world would the Pats be happy with the 35th pick in the draft? Teams take QBs in the first 10 picks every year, with huge contracts that don't work out. Cassel has shown he can perform at a high-level already, and has been coached exceptionally well. I would be shocked if the Pats didn't get a #1 and another high pick for him.

And could everyone stop referencing Derek Anderson? I love how he's the one guy who keeps getting mentioned over and over again as someone who performed well and then fell off. Enough already with Anderson.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

If you can not say that he should take 2/20, then it can not be a win-win for Cassel.

No-one here has said it wouldn't be more than $20M. Lombardi threw that number out. Maybe it would be 2/23 which means another 8+M to his guaranteed lifetime nestegg. Maybe 2/24. All I said is that taking less in 2009 can still be a deal that satisfies Cassel depending on what the full deal is.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Why in the world would the Pats be happy with the 35th pick in the draft? Teams take QBs in the first 10 picks every year, with huge contracts that don't work out. Cassel has shown he can perform at a high-level already, and has been coached exceptionally well. I would be shocked if the Pats didn't get a #1 and another high pick for him.

I said I would be happy, not that the Patriots should be. But I'm not a tough negotiator (as the failure of my fantasy teams shows). Cassel will ultimately be worth what someone is willing to pay; in my mind that would be at least Minnesota's #1 - how could they possibly think their #1 isn't worth fixing their QB situation - but we'll just have to wait and see what's offered.

 

[slash83]

I expect atleast a 1st rounder for Cassel, anything else would be a steal for the team aquireing him.

 

[aluminum seats]

I said I would be happy, not that the Patriots should be. But I'm not a tough negotiator (as the failure of my fantasy teams shows). Cassel will ultimately be worth what someone is willing to pay; in my mind that would be at least Minnesota's #1 - how could they possibly think their #1 isn't worth fixing their QB situation - but we'll just have to wait and see what's offered.

Fair enough, but see even you are saying in your mind it would be "at least" a number one, so I don't think you'd be "thrilled" with a 2nd rounder.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Fair enough, but see even you are saying in your mind it would be "at least" a number one, so I don't think you'd be "thrilled" with a 2nd rounder.

Logically I think we should be able to get a #1. Good QB are hard to find, a team should be willing to pay for one. However, I am a pessimist by nature and worry that teams will either not want to deal with us or will out-think themselves and try to get by with a rookie, an over the hill vet or a Vince Young type. So, yeah, logically I expect a #1+. But in reality if we got a high #2 I'd be smiling.

Minnesota picks directly ahead of us, btw, back to back picks would be sweet.

 

[LuthierJr]

Even if we only got a third out of him it would be the same as a comp pick, at best, but at least we would have some control over where he went to. That's good enough for me! (not that it matters of course)

That said I think we get at least a 2nd. Probably more.

 

[Ungeheuer]

Even if we only got a third out of him it would be the same as a comp pick, at best, but at least we would have some control over where he went to. That's good enough for me! (not that it matters of course)

That said I think we get at least a 2nd. Probably more.

You guys are all crazy. If Cassel gets traded there is absolutely no way he goes for less than a #1.

Cassel's value exists at the intersection of the two most horrifying financial realities of the NFL game. One is that your entire annual investment in a team and a coaching staff is useless without a good quarterback. The other is that the easiest way to cripple a franchise for five or six years is to make a massive investment in a young quarterback who can't play and doesn't pan out. Just ask Detroit after Joey Harrington, San Diego after Ryan Leaf, Houston with David Carr, and every other team that broke the bank for a rookie quarterback how that worked out. And ask Baltimore for the last six years or so, or Minnesota for the last two, how trying to get by cheap at the quarterback position while first filling out the rest of the team worked out.

A good young quarterback just entering his prime is the most valuable commodity there is in this sport. Even going beyond the on-the-field value, a guy like Cassel who has proven that he can be a leader in the locker room and handle the enormous public relations responsibilities inherent in the job is an invaluable commodity. If it were me I would place Cassel's value at two #1s and maybe a #3. And I think that is bidding low. Maybe you folks have all been spoiled by Brady over the years, but what Cassel showed this year was unbelievable. In my mind, he won over the league in his last games against Oakland, Seattle and Buffalo -- showing that he could play after his father's death, lead a team to a 4th-quarter comeback in a desperate situation in Seattle and then flawlessly execute his job in one of the all-time terrible weather games in Buffalo shows that this is a kid who is going to be consistent, accountable and dependable in the most extreme kinds of situations. You can't put a price tag on that. Just look what Atlanta paid for Michael Vick, a player who had immense talent but a) was unproven at the NFL level b) had a serious height issue and c) had major issues with his throwing mechanics. They invested gigantic money in a player who even in the best case scenario was going to need to be taught how to read defenses and throw correctly. Absolutely none of that is going to be an issue with Cassel. The only real question is if he can still perform at a high level without Moss and Welker.

Plus there's the added bonus: Cassel could get better. Athletically there are no limits there. He's proven AND he has upside still -- at the premium position.

Not just the whole NFL game but the whole NFL team business is built around the quarterback. You can't do anything without a good one and they are hard to get.

I would bet just about anything that the Patriots hold on to Cassel for the whole of next year, however. They will hold on to him for the same reason they drafted O'Connell last year; they have to start preparing for the post-Brady future and I'm sure it is worth $15 million or so to wait to see a) what Cassel's ceiling is and b) whether brady will be okay.