Edelman Update

[aluminum seats]

Guys who risk their bodies and long term health to win championships have my undying loyalty. Bird, McHale, etc.

JE11 is in the category.

Freaking gamer.

Exactly. Whenever you've got a guy who seems like he cares as much as we do, you gotta love 'em.

 

[shmessy]

3. I've read where 20% of Jones fractures reoccur. Now I'm not sure whether that is 20% of all Jones fractures or just those from athletes. but there IS a significant percentage. On the plus side, the chance that it won't are much higher.

At the same time, the word has been repeated over and over that it is a 6-8 recovery and he will be 9 weeks out when the pats take the field against the Chiefs.

So, I'm guessing that 20% recurrence rate is in a 6-8 week normal return rate period.

In that respect, I'm glad right now that BB held edelman back instead of playing him in NY and Miami.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Here's a paper that might have some useful information. Dunno if it can be downloaded for free. The abstract:

This study details six instances of refracture of clinically and radiographically healed fractures of the base of the fifth metatarsal after intramedullary screw fixation. Four professional football players, one college basketball player, and one recreational athlete underwent intramedullary screw fixation of fifth metatarsal fractures. The athletes were released to full activities an average of 8.5 weeks (range, 5.5 to 12) after fixation, when healing was clinically and radiographically documented. Three football players developed refracture within 1 day of return to full activity. The other three athletes refractured at 2.5, 4, and 4.5 months after return to activity. Two football players underwent repeat fixation with larger screws and returned to play in the same season. The college basketball player underwent bone grafting and returned to play in subsequent seasons. The other three athletes underwent nonoperative management and healed uneventfully over 6 to 8 weeks. On the basis of this series, we recommend that 1) screw fixation using a large-diameter screw should be given careful consideration for patients with large body mass for whom early return to activity is important; 2) functional bracing, shoe modification, or an orthosis should be considered for return to play; 3) if refracture occurs, exchange to a larger screw may allow return to play in the same season; and 4) alternative imaging should be considered to help document complete healing.

Refracture of proximal fifth metatarsal (Jones) fracture after intramedullary screw fixation in athletes. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Tunescribe]

Here's a paper that might have some useful information. Dunno if it can be downloaded for free. The abstract:

Refracture of proximal fifth metatarsal (Jones) fracture after intramedullary screw fixation in athletes. - PubMed - NCBI

That's not terribly encouraging.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

On a more positive side, there's this thesis from a student (dunno if grad or undergrad, though) at a Norwegian university:

Results: All fractures healed and there were no recurrence of fracture. Treatment was rated successful if the patient was able return to full preinjury level. 36 of 39 (92.3%) cases returned to full level of activity. The time from surgery until return to pre-injury level varied from 5.6-22.4 weeks, median 8.6 weeks. There were no infections. 10 patients felt tenderness when kicked or stepped on, but this did not limit their activity. 38 out of 39 operations resulted in patient satisfaction and they would have gone through the same treatment again. Of the 39 operations, 36 of the patients came to the conclusion that they would have preferred surgical treatment as the first treatment option.

http://munin.uit.no/bitstream/handle/10037/2851/thesis.pdf?sequence=2

 

[Schmo]

Youre also not a professional athlete with all the best doctors and rehab at your finger tips. At least i think...

Duh. Sure as hell didn't imply that I did. Maybe reread it to get my point.

 

[supafly]

Here's a paper that might have some useful information. Dunno if it can be downloaded for free. The abstract:

Refracture of proximal fifth metatarsal (Jones) fracture after intramedullary screw fixation in athletes. - PubMed - NCBI

Yes, Edelman is right at the average timeframe, which is approx. 9 weeks. As your source notes, it's actually 8.5.

We saw what someone like Bryant looked like after 7 weeks, as he's now had a second procedure.

The positive in all of this is that we hope to have him for only 3 games, so he can have additional surgery and rest in the offseason, should he need it.

 

[supafly]

That's not terribly encouraging.

One would have to wonder how prepared they are for the possibility of another procedure come next month. The importance of Edelman to our stretch run is what matters now, though.

 

[patfanken]

That's not terribly encouraging.

Actually I found it VERY encouraging. In that study 3 of the football players refractured their feet within a day of going back to full activity. From what I understand Edelman has been back running and cutting on his feet for more than 2 weeks now with no set backs.

Based on what you can read from that study, for athletes like football players, refracturing will happen quite quickly when it happens. Clearly he has passed a significant crisis point.

 

[Mack Herron]

And just in case...
Former UCF receiver J.J. Worton signs with Patriots

 

[RayClay]

That looks pretty good.

 

[TommyD4207]

There is actually. That time frame was for return to play, not time to fully healed.

I'm getting tired of seeing Dr. Lester Munson Chao on here as a legitimate source.

 

[Tunescribe]

Actually I found it VERY encouraging. In that study 3 of the football players refractured their feet within a day of going back to full activity. From what I understand Edelman has been back running and cutting on his feet for more than 2 weeks now with no set backs.

Based on what you can read from that study, for athletes like football players, refracturing will happen quite quickly when it happens. Clearly he has passed a significant crisis point.

It depends on how they define "full activity." I'd define it as playing in a game. Edelman has been practicing but has been held back. What he's done in practice has come short of approximating game intensity, which only makes sense. He said today the team has had to step in to protect him from himself (pick up at the 2:40 mark Julian Edelman 1/11: 'I want to go full throttle'). The only thing that will tell is playing in an actual game.

 

[RIpats88]

idk, those cuts look full activity to me. I kind of took the paper to mean once you start activity again. cutting, stopping and starting is pretty close to what he will do in game. if he can do that in practice, not sure (other than getting tackled) what the other risk would be

 

[BTTA]

Here's a paper that might have some useful information. Dunno if it can be downloaded for free. The abstract:
Refracture of proximal fifth metatarsal (Jones) fracture after intramedullary screw fixation in athletes. - PubMed - NCBI

On a more positive side, there's this thesis from a student (dunno if grad or undergrad, though) at a Norwegian university:
http://munin.uit.no/bitstream/handle/10037/2851/thesis.pdf?sequence=2

Cut that out. There's no room for real scientific research here. You are going to ruin the entire conversation, and send us all back to the Jets Suck thread.

 

[Tunescribe]

idk, those cuts look full activity to me. I kind of took the paper to mean once you start activity again. cutting, stopping and starting is pretty close to what he will do in game. if he can do that in practice, not sure (other than getting tackled) what the other risk would be

Like I said in the earlier post, "full activity" isn't really quantified, nor are the positions the football players played. WR cuts and route running are different when going against a DB in a live game (much higher intensity, adjusting on the fly).

 

[RIpats88]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Good footage of <a href="Julian Edelman (@Edelman11) | Twitter">@Edelman11</a> looking sharp at <a href="News about #Patriots on Twitter">#Patriots</a> practice today during drills. <a href="#WBZ hashtag on Twitter">#WBZ</a> <a href="#Edelman hashtag on Twitter">#Edelman</a> <a href="Scott Sullivan on Twitter">pic.twitter.com/AIL7fwI5sh</a></p>&mdash; Scott Sullivan (@SullySportsTV) <a href="">January 11, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[nowayback]

Here's a paper that might have some useful information. Dunno if it can be downloaded for free. The abstract:

Refracture of proximal fifth metatarsal (Jones) fracture after intramedullary screw fixation in athletes. - PubMed - NCBI

Helpful but from 2000, 16 years ago, lots have changed . I am also sure Julian has had all the possible Medical and healing advantages possible

 

[patfanken]

It depends on how they define "full activity." I'd define it as playing in a game. Edelman has been practicing but has been held back. What he's done in practice has come short of approximating game intensity, which only makes sense. He said today the team has had to step in to protect him from himself (pick up at the 2:40 mark Julian Edelman 1/11: 'I want to go full throttle'). The only thing that will tell is playing in an actual game.

Well of course there is a difference between "full speed" and "Game Speed". But in the article QM posted, they led us to believe that the 3 football players refractured their feet during their first full day back with their teams. Clearly that is not the case with Julian.

Bottom line: The proof is in the pudding, And it won't matter a bit how much we speculate and agonize over this injury. Really its no different than a hamstring injury. When you come back it will be more likely to pull again, or it won't. Julian IS coming back. We will know real early if he's going to be a factor, or be a decoy like Gronk was in the 2011 Superbowl....or somewhere inbetween

We are all going to waste a lot of energy worrying about it between now and Saturday afternoon if we continue on this path. Personally, I'd rather figure out how the Pats are going to solve that very good front 7 KC has, if I'm going to worry about something.,

 

[Rob0729]

I'm getting tired of seeing Dr. Lester Munson Chao on here as a legitimate source.

His info should not be taken as gospel for sure. And since he has never examined Edelman or seen his x-rays he is just guessing. He is just a good guide to get a kind of barometer of a timeline.

He isn't Lester Munson bad. If he was, he would be predicting Edelman needing to get his foot amputated.