Ebner now ahead of T. Wilson on the depth chart

[BradyFTW!]

Not everyone agreed with that most felt he performed well for a rookie safety and his stats would indicate that as well.



Breaking Down Tavon Wilson?s Fit in New England | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2014 NFL Draft

Breaking Down Tavon Wilson's Rookie Year with the New England Patriots | Bleacher Report


Patriots Draft Pick Review: Tavon Wilson | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2014 NFL Draft

Those people were wrong. He was fine for the first couple of games, then got beat for long touchdowns on an identical play in back-to-back weeks. That kind of game-breaking stupidity is not allowed in New England, and he's been benched pretty much ever since. Based on the limited action that we saw from him in the preseason, he still hasn't learned. He gets torched and doesn't learn from his mistakes, which are two of the worst qualities that you can have as a young defender.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I think TW was an obscene reach but if you think about it we got Dennard out of the 7th round. Let's just try to think that Dennard was our second rounder and TW was our seventh. I think it makes that pick less of a disaster.

If nothing else, it highlights how little sense it makes to evaluate draft performance by round. That's like rating a movie in 15 minute increments. It doesn't really make sense. You can talk about how some movies have better opening scenes than others, but sometimes the opening scene is deliberately slow-paced to set up action later, etc. etc. It's part of a larger whole, and trying to evaluate without considering this at all is just a fool's errand.

It turns out that the Wilson pick was pretty bad, but any sweeping generalization about how the Pats should actively trade out of the round or 'can't draft' in the same round where they got Gronk, Spikes, Vereen and Vollmer is just nonsense. It reminds me of all the people who complained that the Patriots couldn't draft tight ends until suddenly they could. Or the people who complained that the Pats couldn't draft WRs until suddenly it looks like they might have learned how to again. Or the people who complained that the Patriots couldn't draft DEs until suddenly they got Chandler Jones. Or how they couldn't draft corners until suddenly they got McCourty and Dennard. Or how they couldn't draft RBs until suddenly they figured out how to and got Ridley and Vereen.

This kind of analysis is a gross oversimplification that betrays fundamental laziness and a complete misunderstanding of how draft preparation actually works.

 

[Ivan]

If nothing else, it highlights how little sense it makes to evaluate draft performance by round. That's like rating a movie in 15 minute increments. It doesn't really make sense. You can talk about how some movies have better opening scenes than others, but sometimes the opening scene is deliberately slow-paced to set up action later, etc. etc. It's part of a larger whole, and trying to evaluate without considering this at all is just a fool's errand.

It turns out that the Wilson pick was pretty bad, but any sweeping generalization about how the Pats should actively trade out of the round or 'can't draft' in the same round where they got Gronk, Spikes, Vereen and Vollmer is just nonsense. It reminds me of all the people who complained that the Patriots couldn't draft tight ends until suddenly they could. Or the people who complained that the Pats couldn't draft WRs until suddenly it looks like they might have learned how to again. Or the people who complained that the Patriots couldn't draft DEs until suddenly they got Chandler Jones. Or how they couldn't draft corners until suddenly they got McCourty and Dennard. Or how they couldn't draft RBs until suddenly they figured out how to and got Ridley and Vereen.

This kind of analysis is a gross oversimplification that betrays fundamental laziness and a complete misunderstanding of how draft preparation actually works.

Holy crap, common sense and reason about the Draft. Good post, right on the money. The way these guys cherry pick to try and support their ridiculous contention that Belichick can't draft is beyond absurd. No NFL team can have this kind of success year in and year out without being among the best team's in the league at drafting. They clearly aren't doing it through free agency and the truth is that they both draft well and use the entire process to obtain many players who end up being major contributors to their success. The draft is as inexact a science as there is, and every team in the league has a high share of misses in the process, the Patriots have their share of misses, but they also continually build their roster from the process, and since no team has more success the fact is that they are as good or better at it as any team in the league. Does it suck when they miss on valuable picks, absolutely, but using that as the sole determinant for their success or failure in it is as myopic as it gets.

 

[Crononaut]

Are they actually boom or bust however? If you look at the most successful picks of the second and third rounds you have:

• Rob Gronkowski: the best tight end in the NFL when healthy but most tight ends are drafted in the second round or later historically, at the time Gronkowski was drafted 42nd overall only 6 tight ends had been drafted higher in the previous decade by a team. So hitting on a tight end in the second round is it really a boom?

Brady, Dennard and (before he made a BOOM) Hernandez were boom picks none of the players taken in the second may me say - oh wow I cannot believe he found that tight end or right tackle in the second round. Honestly so much of our team is built on UDFA that is where Belichick truly shines, if he could ever find a way to draft adequately in the second and third he would have a pro bowl roster.

Gronk is on pace to obliterate just about every TE record that's ever existed. He is exceptional at all aspects of his position, unlike most of the other star TEs. He is almost impossible to match-up with for anyone's secondary, is deceptively fast, and has remarkable hands for a guy his size (great hands period). IMO he's a Top 10 player across all positions in the NFL. His ONLY issue is durability, and even if he's healthy 70% of the time for his career it wouldn't surprise me if the records still came crumbling down. He's a BOOM in every sense of the word.

I understand your rationale, and don't want to get too off topic here, but if all teams knew what he would become, he wouldn't have made it out of the first half of the first round, TE or not.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Are they actually boom or bust however? If you look at the most successful picks of the second and third rounds you have:

• Rob Gronkowski: the best tight end in the NFL when healthy but most tight ends are drafted in the second round or later historically, at the time Gronkowski was drafted 42nd overall only 6 tight ends had been drafted higher in the previous decade by a team. So hitting on a tight end in the second round is it really a boom?
• Sebastian Vollmer: one of the better right tackles in the NFL and although many considered him a reach because he was an unknown smaller school player is it really a boom to find an upper echelon right tackle in the second round of a draft?
• Brandon Spikes: a very good run stopping middle linebacker, once again though middle linebacker is generally the type of position you see taken in the second and third rounds of the draft.
• Shane Vereen: we’ve all been happy with Vereen but in hindsight has he really given us that much for a second round running back? When you look at players like Ryan Rice (second), Maurice Jones-Drew (second, LeSean McCoy (second), Jamaal Charles (third), Frank Gore (third), Alfred Morris (sixth) and Arian Foster (UDFA) can you really see a boom in a player like Vereen.

In my opinion if he attempting to grab as many lottery tickets as possible and receive these boom players then he isn’t succeeding at all, he is hitting on players and positions that are generally taken in the second round of the NFL draft.

Brady, Dennard and (before he made a BOOM) Hernandez were boom picks none of the players taken in the second may me say - oh wow I cannot believe he found that tight end or right tackle in the second round. Honestly so much of our team is built on UDFA that is where Belichick truly shines, if he could ever find a way to draft adequately in the second and third he would have a pro bowl roster.

Re: the bolded section: most players at every position are drafted after the first round. I assume that what you meant is that it's rare to see even the elite TE prospects taken before the second round, but even that's simply untrue.

Since 2000, the following TEs have been taken in the first round:

2000:
Bubba Franks, #14 overall
Anthoy Becht, #27 overall

2001:
Todd Heap, #31 overall

2002:
Jeremy Shockey, #14 overall
Daniel Graham, #21 overall
Jerramy Stevens, #28 overall

2003:
Dallas Clark, #24 overall

2004:
Kellen Winslow, #6 overall
Ben Watson, #32 overall

2005:
Heath Miller, #30 overall

2006:
Vernon Davis, #6 overall
Marcedes Lewis, #28 overall

2007:
Greg Olsen, #31 overall

2008:
Dustin Keller, #30 overall

2009:
Brandon Pettigrew, #20 overall

2010 (Gronk's draft class):
Jermaine Gresham, #21 overall

So every single draft between 2000 and Gronk's class in 2010 had at least one TE taken in the first round, with TEs going as high as #6 overall on multiple occasions. This is without a doubt where Gronk would have gone if he did not have injury concerns. So yes, to get him at #42 is an absolute home run.

The fact that every team in the NFL would trade at least 2-3 second rounders to get him supports that point.

 

[Brady6]

Re: the bolded section: most players at every position are drafted after the first round. I assume that what you meant is that it's rare to see even the elite TE prospects taken before the second round, but even that's simply untrue.

Ok as I said around 8 tight ends were drafted by another NFL in the decade prior to Gronkowski in the first round - you highlighted the years since 2000 and there were a total of 13 players 2 of which were Patriots selections. You covered 11 drafts which would amount to 352 first round selection so the 13 tight ends equates to 3.69% of the time which means 96% of the time a team does not use a first round draft pick on a tight end.

I am not debating that Gronkowski was a great draft selection what I am debating is saying his selection in the second round was a BOOM the fact is we did not need to compile additional draft assets to be able to draft a tight end in the second round that is a very common position for that round of the NFL draft historically. The fact teams would trade a lot of draft picks for him is neither here nor there, teams would trade even more for Russell Wilson who Seattle took in the third, or Richard Sherman who Seattle took in the fourth those types of picks constitute BOOM because you’re drafting a MVP caliber QB in the third round and a shutdown CB in the fourth. If Gronkowski is BOOM then Jimmy Graham is a nuclear bomb because he was taken 95th overall.

 

[Brady6]

Gronk is on pace to obliterate just about every TE record that's ever existed. He is exceptional at all aspects of his position, unlike most of the other star TEs. He is almost impossible to match-up with for anyone's secondary, is deceptively fast, and has remarkable hands for a guy his size (great hands period). IMO he's a Top 10 player across all positions in the NFL. His ONLY issue is durability, and even if he's healthy 70% of the time for his career it wouldn't surprise me if the records still came crumbling down. He's a BOOM in every sense of the word.

I understand your rationale, and don't want to get too off topic here, but if all teams knew what he would become, he wouldn't have made it out of the first half of the first round, TE or not.

I understand what you’re saying and don’t get me wrong the Rob Gronkowski pick was an exceptional choice what I am saying is it was not the type of pick that makes you say I cannot believe he drafted that tight end in the second round. If you look at his draft profile we took Gronkowski exactly where most projected us to and the reasons he was slated to go there were due to injury concerns which have been valid at the NFL level.

*Rob Gronkowski | Arizona, TE : 2010 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

As far as the records I am not sure if he is on pace for any other than the touchdown record for tight ends, he and Jimmy Graham came into the league at the same time and Graham has 64 receptions and 488 receiving yards more than Rob Gronkowski as of today, I personally believe Gronkowski is the superior player but I am not sure that translates into records.

 

[Brady6]

If nothing else, it highlights how little sense it makes to evaluate draft performance by round. That's like rating a movie in 15 minute increments. It doesn't really make sense. You can talk about how some movies have better opening scenes than others, but sometimes the opening scene is deliberately slow-paced to set up action later, etc. etc. It's part of a larger whole, and trying to evaluate without considering this at all is just a fool's errand.

It turns out that the Wilson pick was pretty bad, but any sweeping generalization about how the Pats should actively trade out of the round or 'can't draft' in the same round where they got Gronk, Spikes, Vereen and Vollmer is just nonsense. It reminds me of all the people who complained that the Patriots couldn't draft tight ends until suddenly they could. Or the people who complained that the Pats couldn't draft WRs until suddenly it looks like they might have learned how to again. Or the people who complained that the Patriots couldn't draft DEs until suddenly they got Chandler Jones. Or how they couldn't draft corners until suddenly they got McCourty and Dennard. Or how they couldn't draft RBs until suddenly they figured out how to and got Ridley and Vereen.

This kind of analysis is a gross oversimplification that betrays fundamental laziness and a complete misunderstanding of how draft preparation actually works.

Ok so let’s look at the 2012 draft as a whole

Chandler Jones
Donta Hightower
Jake Bequette
Nate Ebner
Alfonzo Dennard
Jamie Ebert

So including Hightower who is not exactly an all pro Belichick hit on 3 of 7 picks which means he succeeds 43% of the time, are you happy with a 43% draft pick success rate? Before you tell me that Ebner was a good pick for a sixth round let me remind you that as you said we aren’t looking at where the picks are we’re looking at it as a whole and in that case being the 9th defensive back out of 10 on the team would make Ebner unsuccessful.

Now with that aside your logic is silly because everything in life is about the investment vs. reward so if you own a company and you keep missing on your front end products but are fortunate enough to makes sales with your backend products all you’re really doing is finishing even, the idea of the draft is to grow. The fact Belichick can get more out of a late round pick than other GM’s is excellent and something I admire about him but it does not excuse his misuse of our early draft picks, in simple terms if you shoot someone just cause you’re the one that resuscitates them does not mean that you aren’t held accountable for shooting them.

 

[Brady6]

Holy crap, common sense and reason about the Draft. Good post, right on the money. The way these guys cherry pick to try and support their ridiculous contention that Belichick can't draft is beyond absurd. No NFL team can have this kind of success year in and year out without being among the best team's in the league at drafting. They clearly aren't doing it through free agency and the truth is that they both draft well and use the entire process to obtain many players who end up being major contributors to their success. The draft is as inexact a science as there is, and every team in the league has a high share of misses in the process, the Patriots have their share of misses, but they also continually build their roster from the process, and since no team has more success the fact is that they are as good or better at it as any team in the league. Does it suck when they miss on valuable picks, absolutely, but using that as the sole determinant for their success or failure in it is as myopic as it gets.

I understand what you're trying to say here man but the problem with that logic is that you look at the Alfonzo Dennard as this steal but really was it a steal? Dennard dropped to the seventh round because he was arrested a week before the draft prior to that he was projected to be a second round draft pick. Teams went away from Dennard because they were fearful of his legal issues and those fears are very real he was sentenced to jail time in April and is currently pending trial for a DUI. I don’t think as many GM’s are sitting around wishing they drafted Dennard or envying Belichick draft day intelligence for that decision. That happens for Brady, outside of that the Hernandez situation has taught us that a spade is most times a spade.

I think Belichick shines in UDFA and exceptional in the first round but he does leave some on the table in the mid rounds, overall he is the best ever but nobody is perfect.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Ok so let’s look at the 2012 draft as a whole

Chandler Jones
Donta Hightower
Jake Bequette
Nate Ebner
Alfonzo Dennard
Jamie Ebert

So including Hightower who is not exactly an all pro Belichick hit on 3 of 7 picks which means he succeeds 43% of the time, are you happy with a 43% draft pick success rate? Before you tell me that Ebner was a good pick for a sixth round let me remind you that as you said we aren’t looking at where the picks are we’re looking at it as a whole and in that case being the 9th defensive back out of 10 on the team would make Ebner unsuccessful.

Now with that aside your logic is silly because everything in life is about the investment vs. reward so if you own a company and you keep missing on your front end products but are fortunate enough to makes sales with your backend products all you’re really doing is finishing even, the idea of the draft is to grow. The fact Belichick can get more out of a late round pick than other GM’s is excellent and something I admire about him but it does not excuse his misuse of our early draft picks, in simple terms if you shoot someone just cause you’re the one that resuscitates them does not mean that you aren’t held accountable for shooting them.

If you come out of any draft with three good starters, one of which produces at an All Pro level (which Jones is doing), you've had a very successful draft. If Ebner turns into serviceable depth at safety, then that's all the better, but even if he doesn't no reasonable person can look at that draft class and call it anything other than a success.

Also, you must have misread what I said, because I never said that picks shouldn't be evaluated for where they're drafted. Obviously a first round pick and a sixth round pick are going to carry different expectations. What I said was that individual rounds should not be isolated and considered in a vacuum without regard for other rounds. If a sixth round pick evolves into serviceable rotation depth, then that's a hit. If a first round pick becomes the same, that's clearly a miss.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Ok as I said around 8 tight ends were drafted by another NFL in the decade prior to Gronkowski in the first round - you highlighted the years since 2000 and there were a total of 13 players 2 of which were Patriots selections. You covered 11 drafts which would amount to 352 first round selection so the 13 tight ends equates to 3.69% of the time which means 96% of the time a team does not use a first round draft pick on a tight end.

I am not debating that Gronkowski was a great draft selection what I am debating is saying his selection in the second round was a BOOM the fact is we did not need to compile additional draft assets to be able to draft a tight end in the second round that is a very common position for that round of the NFL draft historically. The fact teams would trade a lot of draft picks for him is neither here nor there, teams would trade even more for Russell Wilson who Seattle took in the third, or Richard Sherman who Seattle took in the fourth those types of picks constitute BOOM because you’re drafting a MVP caliber QB in the third round and a shutdown CB in the fourth. If Gronkowski is BOOM then Jimmy Graham is a nuclear bomb because he was taken 95th overall.

You could make the same argument about literally any other position as well, so what's your point there? Take the number of first round picks over an 11 year span, divide it by the number of that position that typically plays in a base offense/defense, and you're looking at the same or lower number for almost all positions. The only positions that I'd expect to see drafted in the first round with dramatically more frequency are QB, T, CB and DE.

Besides, that wasn't what you stated. You stated was that elite TE prospects typically go in the second round anyway, which is demonstrably untrue. Between 2000 and 2010, the top TE prospect always went in the first round, and multiple times went as high as #6 overall.

 

[Brady6]

You could make the same argument about literally any other position as well, so what's your point there? Take the number of first round picks over an 11 year span, divide it by the number of that position that typically plays in a base offense/defense, and you're looking at the same or lower number for almost all positions. The only positions that I'd expect to see drafted in the first round with dramatically more frequency are QB, T, CB and DE.

You really could make that case though; most top QB, LT, CB, DL and even WR are taken in the first round of the draft. If you look at the top TE how in the league outside of Vernon Davis and Tony Gonzalez who was drafted in the first round? I am not knocking the pick it was clearly one of the best selections of the Belichick era all I am saying is it was not this reach pick that shocked the world and you say oh wow how could Belichick find Gronkowski in the second round of the draft, he was taken where he was expected to be taken and the possibility that he would become the player he is was always there.

You basically agree when you say you’d expect to see QB, CB, T, DE drafted ahead of the TE because that is my point the TE position is not a highly sought after selection in the first round.

Besides, that wasn't what you stated. You stated was that elite TE prospects typically go in the second round anyway, which is demonstrably untrue. Between 2000 and 2010, the top TE prospect always went in the first round, and multiple times went as high as #6 overall.

It was 3.69% so to me that would imply elite prospects generally go post round 1, unless you’re saying only 3.69% of the time is there an elite tight end to be drafted in which case I disagree, many elite tight ends went post round one – Witten, Gates, Graham, Finley, Pitta, Cook, Rudolph.

 

[Brady6]

If you come out of any draft with three good starters, one of which produces at an All Pro level (which Jones is doing), you've had a very successful draft. If Ebner turns into serviceable depth at safety, then that's all the better, but even if he doesn't no reasonable person can look at that draft class and call it anything other than a success.

Also, you must have misread what I said, because I never said that picks shouldn't be evaluated for where they're drafted. Obviously a first round pick and a sixth round pick are going to carry different expectations. What I said was that individual rounds should not be isolated and considered in a vacuum without regard for other rounds. If a sixth round pick evolves into serviceable rotation depth, then that's a hit. If a first round pick becomes the same, that's clearly a miss.

I apologize if I misread what you wrote, my only point is not to bash Belichick as a drafter because I think he does a remarkable job in many areas but he has missed on picks and we’ve over invested in players for a limited RIO many times in recent years and that has an impact, his getting a higher RIO than anticipated with his later picks helps diminish some of that impact but it still is not ideal.

 

[supafly]

I think I'm just wondering if he feels that there is a decent percentage of draft picks failing in general, so lately he has tended to take more to try and improve those odds by taking a higher volume of picks?

If you take into account the fact that they've often been in round two where there is a boom or bust factor involved altogether (I recently recall someone stating that it was a bit more than a 50% success rate for a certain number of years playing, but I'm unsure of the specifics re: the criteria) it may not be quite as surprising that he has failed so miserably.

It's not about hit percentage; it's about total number of hits. The whole reason why the Patriots trade down and stockpile draft picks is because it enables them to get contributing players even with misses.

I think we may be in agreement regarding the way we see this, especially if you read my quote from above. I do think there is a certain percentage of failure that Belichick expects from any draft, which may be why he decided to take a chance on having a larger volume of picks overall.

I was just responding to Fencer's post that stated that we haven't done too badly (paraphrase) with our 2nd/3rd round picks, so I wanted to examine that a little further.

 

[Nehalem]

You really could make that case though; most top QB, LT, CB, DL and even WR are taken in the first round of the draft. If you look at the top TE how in the league outside of Vernon Davis and Tony Gonzalez who was drafted in the first round? I am not knocking the pick it was clearly one of the best selections of the Belichick era all I am saying is it was not this reach pick that shocked the world and you say oh wow how could Belichick find Gronkowski in the second round of the draft, he was taken where he was expected to be taken and the possibility that he would become the player he is was always there.

You basically agree when you say you’d expect to see QB, CB, T, DE drafted ahead of the TE because that is my point the TE position is not a highly sought after selection in the first round.

It was 3.69% so to me that would imply elite prospects generally go post round 1, unless you’re saying only 3.69% of the time is there an elite tight end to be drafted in which case I disagree, many elite tight ends went post round one – Witten, Gates, Graham, Finley, Pitta, Cook, Rudolph.

There are 22 starters on offense and defense. Assume 1 typically is a TE. If all positions are equally likely to go in the 1st round then 1/22 picks or ~1.45 picks per year should go in the first round.

From 2000-2010(11 drafts) 16 TEs were drafted or an average of 1.45.

Seems a TE is neither more or less likely than any position to go in round 1. It is basically right in the middle.

 

[Brady6]

There are 22 starters on offense and defense. Assume 1 typically is a TE. If all positions are equally likely to go in the 1st round then 1/22 picks or ~1.45 picks per year should go in the first round.

From 2000-2010(11 drafts) 16 TEs were drafted or an average of 1.45.

Seems a TE is neither more or less likely than any position to go in round 1. It is basically right in the middle.

These are the number of players drafted in the first round by position between 2002 and 2012 this totaled 10 drafts:

Defensive Ends – 41
Cornerbacks – 39
Wide Receivers – 37
Offensive Tackles – 37
Defensive Tackles – 33
Linebackers - 32
Quarterbacks – 30
Running Backs – 27
Safeties – 16
Interior Offensive Linemen – 14 (7 Guards and 7 Centers)
Tight Ends – 13

There is really no disputing that tight end is the least sought after position in the first round of the draft or at least it was BG (before Gronk). But even this year there was 1 tight end taken in round 1.

 

[Crononaut]

I understand what you’re saying and don’t get me wrong the Rob Gronkowski pick was an exceptional choice what I am saying is it was not the type of pick that makes you say I cannot believe he drafted that tight end in the second round. If you look at his draft profile we took Gronkowski exactly where most projected us to and the reasons he was slated to go there were due to injury concerns which have been valid at the NFL level.

I thought we were discussing whether picks were booms or busts. From the sounds of it, are we more so discussing whether the pick was a reach or a steal given the point at which they were taken?

If so, I accept your premise on TE's as precedent, although still disagree because of looking at it in a fundamentally different way. To me, I think, if the draft happened again, would he be taken higher or lower than he was initially? As said, I think he would be taken in the early first round, and thus would call him a steal. Your premise seems to preclude recognizing players outperforming their expected draft position. If we're talking strictly about reach picks like TW, obviously I buy into your rationale a whole lot more.

As far as the records I am not sure if he is on pace for any other than the touchdown record for tight ends, he and Jimmy Graham came into the league at the same time and Graham has 64 receptions and 488 receiving yards more than Rob Gronkowski as of today, I personally believe Gronkowski is the superior player but I am not sure that translates into records.

Lol I have to respectfully disagree here as well. I will point out that when I made the comment I was referring to existing records, not records that may or may not be set by another player such as Graham. If we look at the side by side comparison of some key stats, however, we get this:

Player: Gronk Graham
GP 47 56
REC 211 275
TGTS 302 419
YARDS 3006 3494
AVG 14.2 12.7
TD 40 35

As you pointed out, Graham is currently leading on receptions and yards. But he has also played 11 more games. I think it is more useful to look at their averages per game to see what they're on pace for (I will concede this somewhat discredits my statement about Gronk still setting records if injured 30% of the time).

Average yards is already given, with Gronk having a 1.5 yard advantage per reception.

Gronk has a 69.9% complete rate, Graham's is 65.4%.

Gronk averages 64.0 yards per game, Graham 62.4.

Graham averages 4.9 receptions per game, Gronk 4.5.

And of course TD's is in favor of Gronk. So you're right, they're close across all measurables, although if they continued to play at this pace (keep in mind too that Graham is three years older than Gronk), Gronk would eventually pass him on all items except for receptions.

 

[Nehalem]

These are the number of players drafted in the first round by position between 2002 and 2012 this totaled 10 drafts:

Defensive Ends – 41
Cornerbacks – 39
Wide Receivers – 37
Offensive Tackles – 37
Defensive Tackles – 33
Linebackers - 32
Quarterbacks – 30
Running Backs – 27
Safeties – 16
Interior Offensive Linemen – 14 (7 Guards and 7 Centers)
Tight Ends – 13

There is really no disputing that tight end is the least sought after position in the first round of the draft or at least it was BG (before Gronk). But even this year there was 1 tight end taken in round 1.

Sure there is. You have to account for the fact that you would typically have one starting TE. But for example 3 starting interior linemen, 2 starting CB, 2 starting safeties, 3 starting LB, etc.

 

[Brady6]

Sure there is. You have to account for the fact that you would typically have one starting TE. But for example 3 starting interior linemen, 2 starting CB, 2 starting safeties, 3 starting LB, etc.

Yeah I disagree with you on this one, no hard feelings I just see it different.

 

[virginiapatriot]

the pats have recent notoriety at picking DB losers in the 2nd round

darius butler
tyrone wheatley
patrick chung
tavon wilson


we love them almost as much as we love ron brace

Do this enough and it shows on the roster. And not in a good way

Both Harmon and Wilson were reach picks at the time they were drafted. That only applies to the actual draft pick itself. Meaning just because a player was a reach in the draft doesn't mean he's going to be crap on the field. Likewise, for "value" picks.

Wilson sucks, therefore he has justified his reach label with his garbage play on the field. A strict special teamer is not what you're looking for when you draft a DB in the second round. Harmon, while a reach pick, so far has played relatively decent on the field - so even though the pick itself was a bad one - the player hasn't been so far yet.

So, again, a guy can be a reach pick, but that doesn't mean he's going to be a bust automatically without ever stepping foot on the field. Your play speaks for itself, regardless of where you were drafted.
True, a reach pick can turn out to be a fine player. But with guys like Wilson and Harmon,especially Harmon, BB could have gotten them on day 3 and still have taken better value om day 2.
/birdcents

While it is true that Tavon Wilson has not lived up to his draft status, let's not delude ourselves with the implication that he is the only NFL player drafted that highly to do so.


From the first round of that 2012 draft:

DB Dre Kirkpatrick, Bengals
He too can't crack the starting lineup, and in his NFL career has zero picks, two passes defensed, one fumble recovery, and 13 tackles (12 solo). By comparison, the maligned Wilson has four picks, six passes defensed, two fumble recoveries, and 43 tackles (30 solo).

WR A.J. Jenkins, Chiefs
If you want to know the definition of a draft bust, here you go: a first round pick being traded away in his rookie year. Jenkins is unable to get any playing time even on the offensively-challenged Chiefs; in his NFL career he has one reception for six yards.

RB David Wilson, Giants
Granted his biggest issue is injury-related, but that has never stopped others here from labeling a player as a bust. Even if he does recover, his fumbling problems will keep him in Tom Coughlin's doghouse and on the sideline.



From the second round of the 2012 draft:

WR Brian Quick, Rams
Quick has 11 receptions this year, which ranks him 8th on the St. Louis team this year. On the season he has had 16 or fewer yards receiving in a game seven times.

DE Andre Branch, Jaguars
Has struggled with Jacksonville; after a bad rookie season there were rumors the Jags were trying to trade him. Consider this: he can't even start on what may be the worst NFL team in the last fifty years.

RB Isiah Pead, Rams
Pead is number three on the depth chart, behind 5th and a 7th round round draft picks; he ranks 6th on the team this year with all of 21 yards rushing.

WR Ryan Broyles, Lions
Inactive for three games, totaling 8 receptions for 85 yards in six other games before going on IR.

OT Mike Adams, Steelers
You may recall from the Steeler fans that were here a few weeks ago, Adams was a huge liability and such a turnstyle that he lost his starting job on that bad offensive line.

QB Brock Osweiler, Broncos
While Osweiler has done nothing wrong, thus far this appears to be a wsted draft pick.

DE Vinny Curry, Eagles
Philly was actively trying to trade him this year, but not a single team wanted to touch him with a ten foot pole.

RB LaMichael James
Getting almost no work in SF, third on the depth chart. A whopping 37 yards rushing and 4 yards receiving this season.

These guys weren't glaring reaches. And it is true that value picks sometimes just don't pan out. Still, I wouldn't include guys like Dre Kirkpatrick who have missed more games with injuries than he's played. Anyway, these are all young guys who are basically yet to show what they can do. The same may apply to Wilson. We'll see. At any rate, the fact that some rookies from the same draft class have yet to really shine doesn't make me feel any better about the Wilson pick. Isn't BB supposed to be a superior drafter?