Early guess: who's after O'Connell on the depth chart?

[MoLewisrocks]

The problem with that is that you can't use Edelman until the fourth quarter unless you carry him on the 45-man roster, which sort of negates the purpose of the emergency QB.

Also, the Patriots don't seem to see him as a full-time QB.

Edleman is more likely to land on the PS as the wildcat practice player. I don't envision him seeing much action in our offense with Brady back...And if we learned nothing last year it should be not to jump to conclusions based on little or no real information including the liklihood of a player at that position being nabbed off our PS at the expense of a roster spot on another team... Hoyer would have to really light it up beyond the par for the course media message board level driven hype here to not make a PS as an UDFA. Brady and O'Connell will split the lions share of 1st team reps in TC and PS because they'll both need them.

Then it will be incombant on Gutierrez to show the coaches he can lead THIS offense with and against second stringers with composure. If he succombs to the urge to try and showcase himself making plays in meaningless games again, he's toast. He can make all the throws. What he needs to prove is can be remain patient and disciplined under pressure and avoid costly mistakes. If he can't he's almost assuredly out of football.

Hoyer just needs to show he has potential upside and he'll make the PS. Whether he makes the 53 probably has as much to do with Gutierrez (and let's not forget O'Connell must show that 1st to 2nd year jump within the system) as anything. Edleman needs to show he can provide a lot more than practice snaps against a wildcat to make the 53.

They are easily all here throughout camp as you really need 4 arms to avoid overworking the other 3, particularly when the most important one has been away from the game for a year.

You know, Gruden grates me as a HC but as a commentator on NFLN he was pretty interesting. He feels given the dearth of starting QB's and the difficulty with which the position translates from college to the pros, the league needs to do something to allow for more expanded team development of potential pro players at the position. Maybe they should add a 9th player to PS's as a designated QB who could be neither activated nor poached in year 1. Might give teams a shot at at least developing a better equipped backup who could then be better positioned to make a roster in year 2. It's just too much of a squeeze to expect many teams to get better waiting on a costly top 5 drafted QB when the majority of them end up journeyman JAGS or busts. Although that's not to say several would still not make an appropriate choice even when offered a roadmap (Cassel).

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Not quite for the emergency quarterback: "After declaring its 45-man roster one hour before gametime, a team can designate a 46th player as its emergency quarterback. The emergency quarterback can enter the game if the first two are hurt. The first two quarterbacks cannot enter the game again once the emergency quarterback is inserted."

Sports | Two Teams To Join League For '94 Play -- Charlotte Early Expansion Favorite | Seattle Times Newspaper

And if the first two aren't hurt (god forbid...) then he can't enter the game until the 4th quarter. So unless you're planning on the first two being hurt every week, he's fairly useless in the wildcat since he wouldn't be available until the 4th quarter if designated as the emergency QB...

 

[efin98]

And if the first two aren't hurt (god forbid...) then he can't enter the game until the 4th quarter. So unless you're planning on the first two being hurt every week, he's fairly useless in the wildcat since he wouldn't be available until the 4th quarter if designated as the emergency QB...

I don't think there is a 4th quarter rule other than the starter and backup can't reenter New NFL rules for 2008

I'd rather that he never have to be used, but still I don't believe they will cut him or put him on the practice squad...

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I don't think there is a 4th quarter rule other than the starter and backup can't reenter New NFL rules for 2008

I'd rather that he never have to be used, but still I don't believe they will cut him or put him on the practice squad...

But that's exactly the point. Let's say it's (1) Brady, (2) O'Connell, (3) Edelman ("emergency").

If the Pats used the Wildcat before the fourth quarter with Edelman under center, Brady and O'Connell would be unable to play for the rest of the game.

In other words, the Pats could use Edelman as the emergency QB or as a wildcat QB by placing on the 45-man roster, but they can't have it both ways.

 

[sbpatfan]

Ugh.. The Wildcat. It's a gimmick formation. There are reasons why it wasn't being used anymore until last year when the Lawlfins started it. Teams caught on near the end of the season.

 

[efin98]

But that's exactly the point. Let's say it's (1) Brady, (2) O'Connell, (3) Edelman ("emergency").

If the Pats used the Wildcat before the fourth quarter with Edelman under center, Brady and O'Connell would be unable to play for the rest of the game.

In other words, the Pats could use Edelman as the emergency QB or as a wildcat QB by placing on the 45-man roster, but they can't have it both ways.

That's assuming that they use it with him as the designated emergency QB...if they even use the wildcat at all this year. They may not even keep him off the 45 man roster, they could keep him off and not use the wildcat.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

That's assuming that they use it with him as the designated emergency QB...if they even use the wildcat at all this year. They may not even keep him off the 45 man roster, they could keep him off and not use the wildcat.

He will have to show a LOT just to make the 53 let alone the 45 absent the wildcat. Roster spots are valuable here and on the 45 you better be ready to contribute somewhere, somehow...

Youre also kind of moving the goal posts since you were initially talking about Edleman as the 3rd QB (with Gutierrez gone and Hoyer on the PS). Unless the team is so decimated by injuries that no replacement is available (8 other active roster guys can't play) they use the 46th spot for the 3rd QB to free a 45 man roster spot for a backup depth player (or multi position backup). And if you start moving players back and forth between the PS and roster you risk losing them each time to a waiver claim...

 

[JoeSixPat]

No idea if he'll be able to earn a roster spot but it sure would be nice to see Edleman stick with the team.

Going back to the Tom Tupa years, its always nice when you can save a roster spot by carrying just 2 QBs with a guy like Edleman serving as the 3rd stringer.

 

[RayClay]

Hoyer. Gutierrez seemed to regress last year.

In your imagination?

On what basis do you say this, his pre season play?

 

[RayClay]

Could somebody send me the game film where they put in Guttierrez during the regular season and he was awful and regressed? I thought I'd watched every game.

I only saw him a few series during the pre season and he seemed to do as well as could be expected.

I have nothing against Gut but I don't see him fitting into the system anymore and don't see the need to keep him on the practice squad if he is still eligible.

We changed the offensive system too? Man, you can't miss a day, even in the offseason.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Last summah in exhibition games Gutz tried desperately to make things happen which were not there. He hurt himself by not playing within parameters like Cassel. Hopefully it was desperation rather than cluelessness.

 

[RayClay]

Last summah in exhibition games Gutz tried desperately to make things happen which were not there. He hurt himself by not playing within parameters like Cassel. Hopefully it was desperation rather than cluelessness.

This foolishness has gone on long enough. Here's the preseason stats page in case I mistranscribed.

New England Patriots Stats

Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD INT Rating

Matt Gutierrez 45 29 362 64.4 8.0 2 2 85.6
Matt Cassel ....34 19 165 55.9 4.9 0 1 56.6
Kevin O'Connell 32 15 40 .46.9 4.4 1 2 43.8

 

[stcjones]

This foolishness has gone on long enough. Here's the preseason stats page in case I mistranscribed.

New England Patriots Stats

Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD INT Rating

Matt Gutierrez 45 29 362 64.4 8.0 2 2 85.6
Matt Cassel ....34 19 165 55.9 4.9 0 1 56.6
Kevin O'Connell 32 15 40 .46.9 4.4 1 2 43.8

Thanks for posting these stats....very interesting.
I would think it would come down to who as a QB knows the system the BEST, much like the situation with Cassel. Hoyer, Edelman etc....don't know the system yet AT ALL......Okee is still learning it.......Gutz has been in it for a little longer......again it will be interesting to see what they do.

I have a funny feeling that if something had happened to Cassel last year (injury I am referring to) that there is no guarantee that Okee would have stepped in there. Just doesn't make sense in the BB mindset. Anyways, BB knows best and.....GO PATS!

 

[Deus Irae]

This foolishness has gone on long enough. Here's the preseason stats page in case I mistranscribed.

New England Patriots Stats

Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD INT Rating

Matt Gutierrez 45 29 362 64.4 8.0 2 2 85.6
Matt Cassel ....34 19 165 55.9 4.9 0 1 56.6
Kevin O'Connell 32 15 40 .46.9 4.4 1 2 43.8

Cassel wasn't cut and Gut was. That tells you how meaningless preseason stats are.

 

[RayClay]

Thanks for posting these stats....very interesting.
I would think it would come down to who as a QB knows the system the BEST, much like the situation with Cassel. Hoyer, Edelman etc....don't know the system yet AT ALL......Okee is still learning it.......Gutz has been in it for a little longer......again it will be interesting to see what they do.

I have a funny feeling that if something had happened to Cassel last year (injury I am referring to) that there is no guarantee that Okee would have stepped in there. Just doesn't make sense in the BB mindset. Anyways, BB knows best and.....GO PATS!

You could make a case for that (in fact, I might).

Of course the best statement would be nobody here has the slightest clue how any of these guys would perform under real game pressure and its silly to think otherwise.

I also think it's at least a coin flip that Gutierrez would have stepped in last year based on experience, at least.

 

[RayClay]

Cassel wasn't cut and Gut was. That tells you how meaningless preseason stats are.

I'm replying to posters. I don't think any Patriots coaches post here, so that's the only evidence there would be of Gutz getting worse.

Gutierrez seemed to regress last year.

Last summah in exhibition games Gutz tried desperately to make things happen which were not there. He hurt himself by not playing within parameters like Cassel. Hopefully it was desperation rather than cluelessness.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I have a funny feeling that if something had happened to Cassel last year (injury I am referring to) that there is no guarantee that Okee would have stepped in there. Just doesn't make sense in the BB mindset. Anyways, BB knows best and.....GO PATS!

But if that's the case, why have O'Connell as the #2 on the game day roster even in Week 2?

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm replying to posters. I don't think any Patriots coaches post here, so that's the only evidence there would be of Gutz getting worse.

The stats are just a mirage though, as many of us who watched the game took great pains to tell people. We weren't coaches, yet we figured it out. I'm not tooting my horn on this because I didn't say much about Gut for my own reasons, but to say there was no evidence of it is simply incorrect. You may not have seen that evidence You may have seen that evidence and dismissed it as not being valid. However, it was clearly there enough in the minds of some that those people commented about it.

 

[RayClay]

But if that's the case, why have O'Connell as the #2 on the game day roster even in Week 2?

They thought they could slip Gutz onto the practice squad. O'C was a third rounder. If anything happened to Cassel, they would have brought in a vet probably.

I don't think they have a hard and fast ranking of QBs, they just try to keep ones they think have potential. Obviously, they managed to keep Gutz and O'C, so their gamble was successful.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

They thought they could slip Gutz onto the practice squad. O'C was a third rounder. If anything happened to Cassel, they would have brought in a vet probably.

I don't think they have a hard and fast ranking of QBs, they just try to keep ones they think have potential. Obviously, they managed to keep Gutz and O'C, so their gamble was successful.

You didn't actually answer my question: once they had Gutierrez resigned, why did they still keep O'Connell as the #2 instead of having Gutierrez take that role at least for the first few weeks?