Drake Maye has arrived . . .

[Rob0729]

So your argument is he went home in January and came back a different person in August?
So you think he would have held back this years team last year but the suck that was surrounding him last year would be irrelevant now.

Perhaps you can show me all of the examples from this year where his OL and weapons look like last years team and he just flinched it off and then you can point out all of the examples last year when his protection and weapons did great and he spit the bit.
It won’t take long.

He is better this year because the coaching and the team around him allows him to be. He was worse last year because the coaching and team around him made it impossible for him to succeed.
He didn’t become a different player this spring.

That isn't my argument at all. In fact, I have said the opposite. I said he is vastly improving and noticeable each week. I didn't say he came back a different guy. Again, Brady improved every year for much of his career from January to August. He didn't become a different player. He became a much of version of himself. Same with Maye. Maye is now a much better version than Maye was this time last year. He isn't a different QB.

And no I didn't say he would be held back by this year's team last year and the suck was last year is irrelevant now. I said the exact opposite. I say would have would have had rookie season and would be better than he is now if he had this team last year. I specifically said last year's team hurt his development.

Please stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't argue any of this.

 

[KCSVEN]

My use of the word "undisciplined" may not have been exactly what I meant. I just couldn't think of the correct word.

But what you are saying isn't that much different than what I am saying as it seems. I never said he completely changed his playing style. He is fixing the issues by improving his footwork etc. He didn't just change his style or mechanics completely. I never suggested that.

Again, I said he wasn't nearly as raw as Allen. Hence why he cleaned up a lot of his issues virtually overnight.

And what Maye improved more anything was his feel for the pocket and his awareness and his ability to make elite level throws and direct the receivers and things like that. He didn't need to improve his accuracy. You cannot deny that he isn't making throws that he wasn't capable of last year even if he had Diggs. And Collinsworth pointed out in the Bills game how he would get twitchy in the pocket and put his head down and run because he regressed to that a bit early in that game probably because of nerves.

Honestly, his footwork looks mostly the same to me so I don't get that being more than a minor change.

I disagree with Collinsworth, I could show you similar plays by Allen this year. You have your reads, you have an internal clock on pressure, you can run in certain defenses if you get thru the line etc.
Every play is different; Maye has kept his head up all year IMO, even last year many plays where he did that.

He really made that leap from Freshman to Sophomore year. He made a concerted effort on that going into the 2nd year at UNC and was night and day from 1 year. It was obvious on tape he got good at it then.
I honestly don't see him much different at that than he was his 2nd year in college.
That was one of my big takes in his scouting report on how he completely changed the run first approach to keeping his head up the second year in college. That someone could make that leap like that was one of the impressive things about him.

Sure, there are plays this year he bails the pocket too soon, probably more than Allen would do but also considerably less than most QB's that can run. I think he has improved on that with better line play. Hard not to bail too early sometimes when your used to a terrible O Line.

I guess my issue is the scouts saying he was raw, He was incredibly advanced college QB, high level processor, very accurate, almost always under pressure and throwing to tight windows.

I think what you are seeing is improvements of any QB coming from college to Pro. Maye has looked better so far this year IMO because of 2 things:

1-Environment (Coaches and teammates better)
2-He was so advanced already it made the improvement happen quicker (Basically, He was the opposite of raw)

Just my view in it, could be wrong, but feel comfortable with my analysis. I watched every play multiple times in college. Made we say WOW a ton watching hm in college. I couldn't believe we drafted him. Just glad my analysis, in the end seems like it might have been good overall. Great times for Pats fans!

 

[Ring 6]

That isn't my argument at all. In fact, I have said the opposite. I said he is vastly improving and noticeable each week. I didn't say he came back a different guy. Again, Brady improved every year for much of his career from January to August. He didn't become a different player. He became a much of version of himself. Same with Maye. Maye is now a much better version than Maye was this time last year. He isn't a different QB.

And no I didn't say he would be held back by this year's team last year and the suck was last year is irrelevant now. I said the exact opposite. I say would have would have had rookie season and would be better than he is now if he had this team last year. I specifically said last year's team hurt his development.

Please stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't argue any of this.

You said he would not have done well with teams years team last year, which means he would have held it back. You said he would be doing great this year with last years team meaning the suck surrounding him was irrelevant.

Everything but Drake Maye changed from last year to this year.
Maye has done nothing but develop as a player normally does, and everything but him is blinding you to why the results are different.

Ultimately you jumped upon a comment I made and gave a viewpoint that I wholeheartedly disagree with. You have not says a single thing that has altered my viewpoint at all.
Do you really want to keep saying the same thing over and over again that doesn’t sway me, or are we moving on?

 

[Rob0729]

Honestly, his footwork looks mostly the same to me so I don't get that being more than a minor change.

I disagree with Collinsworth, I could show you similar plays by Allen this year. You have your reads, you have an internal clock on pressure, you can run in certain defenses if you get thru the line etc.
Every play is different; Maye has kept his head up all year IMO, even last year many plays where he did that.

He really made that leap from Freshman to Sophomore year. He made a concerted effort on that going into the 2nd year at UNC and was night and day from 1 year. It was obvious on tape he got good at it then.
I honestly don't see him much different at that than he was his 2nd year in college.
That was one of my big takes in his scouting report on how he completely changed the run first approach to keeping his head up the second year in college. That someone could make that leap like that was one of the impressive things about him.

Sure, there are plays this year he bails the pocket too soon, probably more than Allen would do but also considerably less than most QB's that can run. I think he has improved on that with better line play. Hard not to bail too early sometimes when your used to a terrible O Line.

I guess my issue is the scouts saying he was raw, He was incredibly advanced college QB, high level processor, very accurate, almost always under pressure and throwing to tight windows.

I think what you are seeing is improvements of any QB coming from college to Pro. Maye has looked better so far this year IMO because of 2 things:

1-Environment (Coaches and teammates better)
2-He was so advanced already it made the improvement happen quicker (Basically, He was the opposite of raw)

Just my view in it, could be wrong, but feel comfortable with my analysis. I watched every play multiple times in college. Made we say WOW a ton watching hm in college. I couldn't believe we drafted him. Just glad my analysis, in the end seems like it might have been good overall. Great times for Pats fans!

I respect your analysis. Most disagree with you at least in the professional world. Doesn't mean you are wrong. But I agree with most of the professionals. Maybe you are right about the raw part or at least there is a happy medium on what that means. He clearly wasn't Josh Allen raw, but also clearly wasn't Jayden Daniels polished either.

I do disagree with your assessment on the footwork. I do see him stepping to his throws a lot more than he did last year.

But I already said that his situation last year affected development. If he had McDaniels and Diggs and an o-line last year, he would have been much better better last year and most likely much better this year than he is now.

And I forgot to address this in response to your previous post about Allen's completion percentage increase from year one to year two. Maye had a 66.6% completion percentage last year and he now has a 73.2% completion percentage this year. That is a 6.6% jump. You talk about Allen's completion percentage jump from year one to year two. But he jumped from 52.8% in year one to 58.8% in year two which is a 6% jump. That is actually less of a jump than Maye has from year one to year two (so far). Maye may have be one of the most accurate passers both years, he is far more accurate this year and he is seems to making a lot more low percentage, higher skill level throws this year. His average YPA has gone from 6.7 yards to 8.5 yards.

 

[Joey007]

You're forgetting how many ****ty coaches get opportinuites.
If the Pats and Maye continue on this trajectory, McD will get opportunities in the future.
I don't think he should, but he will.

You’re forgetting Josh had already has had his second opportunity.

It wasn’t like it was some normal coach firing, where he simply didn’t win enough. Both of his jobs ended with locker room mutiny that was widely known across the league.

Maybe a college program would take a shot at him at some point? But I don’t think the NFL ever goes after him for that role again.

 

[Joey007]

Idk, he failed pretty spectacularly in both of his HC jobs. And that’s not even to mention the time he backed out after accepting a job. The stories in Vegas were really, really bad. I have a hard time seeing him getting another head coaching job after that when it was already his second chance or third if you count the Colts thing.

Exactly. Simply not winning enough games is fine for a second, maybe even third chance in a few cases. A very mediocre coach like Mike Mularkey comes to mind.

But creating a toxic locker room? No one will want to go near that.

 

[Joey007]

I agree, but.....
He's still young, and I'm sure he can play the "I've changed, I've learned so much" card.
Time will tell.
I've already stated I think it would be a mistake, but some senile old owner can be talked into it.

Josh is pushing 50 now.

Not exactly old in the coaching world. But he isn’t a kid anymore like he was in Denver.

The Raiders job was his second chance, and it failed miserably.

 

[TommyD4207]

Exactly. Simply not winning enough games is fine for a second, maybe even third chance in a few cases. A very mediocre coach like Mike Mularkey comes to mind.

But creating a toxic locker room? No one will want to go near that.

This hypothetical 'McDaniels Head Coach' opportunity (which isn't going to happen), would be his 4th.
Can't leave out the Indianapolis debacle.

 

[Joey007]

Ok I'm not just saying it to say it. He only took the Patriots job because he wanted to work with Vrabel, and he's not interested in moving his family. My only concern with McDaniels is that he retires in 3 or 4 years.

Maybe he takes the BC job in a few years

 

[TommyD4207]

Maybe he takes the BC job in a few years

I feel like O'Brien's going to be there a long time, but...that one's sort of interesting. Short commute anyway.

 

[Joey007]

Regarding age, I really like that both McDaniels/Vrabel are right around that 50 mark in age. Similar to where Bill was with us back in 01.

Old enough to have needed experience. Young enough to be here for the entirety of Maye’s career if things can work out.

 

[KCSVEN]

I respect your analysis. Most disagree with you at least in the professional world. Doesn't mean you are wrong. But I agree with most of the professionals. Maybe you are right about the raw part or at least there is a happy medium on what that means. He clearly wasn't Josh Allen raw, but also clearly wasn't Jayden Daniels polished either.

I do disagree with your assessment on the footwork. I do see him stepping to his throws a lot more than he did last year.

But I already said that his situation last year affected development. If he had McDaniels and Diggs and an o-line last year, he would have been much better better last year and most likely much better this year than he is now.

And I forgot to address this in response to your previous post about Allen's completion percentage increase from year one to year two. Maye had a 66.6% completion percentage last year and he now has a 73.2% completion percentage this year. That is a 6.6% jump. You talk about Allen's completion percentage jump from year one to year two. But he jumped from 52.8% in year one to 58.8% in year two which is a 6% jump. That is actually less of a jump than Maye has from year one to year two (so far). Maye may have be one of the most accurate passers both years, he is far more accurate this year and he is seems to making a lot more low percentage, higher skill level throws this year. His average YPA has gone from 6.7 yards to 8.5 yards.

I'm talking year 2 to year 3 for Allen because it was between those years he changed his mechanics.

I chalk Maye's increase to the fact he's not behind the worst Offensive Line in the NFL this year and has Diggs + Josh.

At one point I posted analyses from some website that disproved the footwork for QB matters. They determined all that mattered was pressure. Whether a QB had supposed bad mechanics or good they completed like 80%+ on throws with no pressure. With pressure, regardless of QB the completion % dropped considerably but the variances showed mechanics were not the issue, it was the fact QB's can't throw with good mechanics under pressure.
Of course there are the Tom Brady elite that move in the pocket so well they can keep the mechanics on a higher percent of throws as they avoid the pressure

Maye is under less pressure thus higher % of good footwork.

I would say for mechanics if Maye was to work on one thing I would suggest he work on bringing the ball up going back on shorter throws. He brings ball down, loopier than a Brady, though others do this as well so it's not a killer but I think some of the batted balls could be avoided by quickening his release on shorter throws, minor thing but an area that he could work on IMO.

 

[mayoclinic]

Nice set of clips.

Maye's footwork alone takes my breath away. So fluid maneuvering in the pocket.

 

[Uptown]

 

[Uptown]

Yeeeeaaah, Maye may be pretty decent at this QB thing..

 

[Thunderhead]

Current MVP odds per Draft Kings:

 

[Huckleberry1]

He also doesn’t need to stay here and play second fiddle to Vrabel. Once again I think Josh will stay for a while because it is a comfortable gig for him but in the event that an opportunity did arise I’m pretty confident he would opt for the money. I would too.

I think MacDaniels will stay until his kids are done with school.

 

[Huckleberry1]

************, I don't want anyone comparing him to that asshat Rodgers. Maye is a team player, Rodgers is a Prima Donna.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Funny you mention that.
The Brady years if we took a holding penalty and started 1st and 20 it was no big deal.
Post Brady, every time we took a holding penalty on 1st down my immediate thought was, "well this drive is over".
With Maye this year, we are back to being able to overcome adverse down and distances again.
It's a very, very nice feeling!

Agree completely. For the first time since Brady they have a QB who can overcome long yardage situations. He's money on 4rd and long, and great in the clutch.

 

[NormZauchin]

Never forget:

Hoge's career was ended by receiving too many concussions. They may have affected his judgement.