Don't overlook the UDFA's

[PATSNUTme]

I was just reading a study in the Pro Football Weekly Draft Guide before I filed it. Sorry no link.

It was on the impact of UDFA's on NFL teams. The study was done for the 5 years 2004 through 2008 season. It showed that there is an average of 5.5 UDFA on all NFL 53 man rosters.

The Colts led with 12, Dallas had 10 and the Patriots 5.

I guess you can draw your own conclusions from this. But those player that the Patriots signed as UDFA's this year cannot be dismissed as just TC practice players.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Re: Don't overlook the UDFA's.

Hopefully Pat Pachall can be one of them.

 

[eom]

Re: Don't overlook the UDFA's.

round by round roster:

Patriots roster by draft round - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

UNDRAFTED PLAYERS (22)
Robbie Agnone
Eric Alexander
Kyle Arrington
Leigh Bodden
Dan Connolly
Adrian Grady
BenJarvus Green-Ellis
Gary Guyton
Brian Hoyer
Darnell Jenkins
Mark LeVoir
Bret Lockett
Brandon McGowan
Marques Murrell
Rob Myers
Stephen Neal
Ron Ninkovich
David Patten
Wes Welker
Ryan Wendell
Pierre Woods
Mike Wright

 

[PatsCanDoIt]

Re: Don't overlook the UDFA's.

As far as potential to make the roster, special teams is the most traveled. I like Dane Fletcher and Buddy Farnham as special teamers. We have all heard that Buddy can make people miss and his agility numbers back that up. Dane is a TBC clone so I think he can pressure punters and cover kickoffs. I shouldn't count out Ross either.

 

[eom]

Re: Don't overlook the UDFA's.

2010 Patriots Undrafted Rookie Signings

Monday, April 26, 2010

Dane Fletcher, DE/OLB, Montana State (6-2/250)
Fletcher looks to be a 3-4 OLB with the Patriots, and is the Big Sky leader in sacks. Great pickup by the Patriots, and we think he'll make the opening-day roster.

Bryan Anderson, WR, CMU (6-5/215)
Anderson has 4.58 speed, which, combined with his impressive size is nothing to sneeze at. A good blocker as well, Anderson has a chance of making the roster.

Sergio Brown, S, Notre Dame (6-1/204)
Safety with good athleticism and 4.45 speed. It is very crowded at safety, so he will have to try and make the practice squad.

Kyle Love, DL, Mississippi State (6-1/315)
Stout defender that looks to be a backup nose tackle. Another crowded position to try and earn a roster spot.

Ross Ventrone, S, Villanova (5-8/190)
A legacy pickup, as Raymond was once a Patriot himself. Hard-worker that plays bigger than his size.

Pat Paschall, RB, North Dakota State (6-0/210)
Smart, instinctive runner that will have a heckuva time trying to unseat one of the Patriots veteran RB's. Ran a poor 4.69, but looks faster on tape.
YouTube - North Dakota State running back Pat Paschall
Pat Paschall, North Dakota State, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

John Wise, OL, Illinois (6-5/275)(Wrestler, Tryout)
It worked with Stephen Neal, so Coach Belichick is going back to the well. Wise played DL for Western Illinois in the 2004-2005 season.

Terrence Johnson, CB, California PA (5-10/190)

Buddy Farnham, WR, Brown (6-0/185)
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...farnham-andover-ma-after-minicamp-tryout.html

 

[mgteich]

Re: Don't overlook the UDFA's.

I won't ignore the UDFA's as I consider various roster possbilities. I just don't think we'll have any.

The complete list has been posted, but I would think that we will have more than our share of uDFA's with at least: Arrington/Lockett, Bodden, Guyton, Hoyer, LeVoir, McGowan, Neal, Ninkovich, Welker, Woods and Wright.

It doesn't follow that any of our current rookie UDFA's will make the 53, or will be likely to do so. The norm for patriots is one or two rookie UDFA's, but we usually don't have 12 draftees. Our long-shot binkies were drafted in the 6th and 7th round. There is plenty to choose from.

Last year, we had one of our rookie UDA's on the roster. That was no surprise. Most of us through that Hoyer had a reasonable chance at a roster spot as soon as we was signed. He was not a surprise to make the roster.

Sure, Paschall has a chance to unseat the mighty Green-Ellis, if we choose to keep five running backs. I think it more likely that we will keep four, and sign a veteran free agent if Morris is released.

I was just reading a study in the Pro Football Weekly Draft Guide before I filed it. Sorry no link.

It was on the impact of UDFA's on NFL teams. The study was done for the 5 years 2004 through 2008 season. It showed that there is an average of 5.5 UDFA on all NFL 53 man rosters.

The Colts led with 12, Dallas had 10 and the Patriots 5.

I guess you can draw your own conclusions from this. But those player that the Patriots signed as UDFA's this year cannot be dismissed as just TC practice players.

 

[jah]

Re: Don't overlook the UDFA's.

So if I'm not mistaken, these bold ones are the players who saw quite a bit of playing time last season (but not going to highlight people who will most likely do nothing this year like Springs):

FIRST ROUND (9)
Logan Mankins
Laurence Maroney
Jerod Mayo
Brandon Meriweather
Randy Moss (MIN)
Shawn Springs (SEA)
Fred Taylor (JAX)
Ty Warren
Vince Wilfork

SECOND ROUND (8)
Ron Brace
Darius Butler
Patrick Chung (not too sure but highlighted him anyway)
Alge Crumpler (ATL) (borderline but not highlighting him--we have 2 decent rookies, probably)
Kevin Faulk
Matt Light
Sebastian Vollmer
Terrence Wheatley (less so than Wilhite, but I'm not highlighting either because McCourty is taking over as nickelback)

THIRD ROUND (5)
Shawn Crable (might contribute this year but has shown exactly zero proof that he can play so far)
Bruce Davis (PIT)
Nick Kaczur (I don't see him starting this year)
Tyrone McKenzie (we have Spikes now, otherwise I'd highlight)
Brandon Tate (out of all the players who have done nothing, I expect Tate to do the most as we don't have a ton of WR depth)

FOURTH ROUND (6)
Sam Aiken (BUF) (I want him gone to be honest but he has done quite a bit on ST, am I right?)
Stephen Gostkowski
Rich Ohrnberger
James Sanders
Isaiah Stanback (DAL)
Jonathan Wilhite (see what I put for Wheatley--Wilhite will probably be dimeback)

FIFTH ROUND (6)
George Bussey
Dan Koppen
Sammy Morris (BUF)
Jeff Rowe (CIN)
Matthew Slater (special teamer but I don't expect him to make the roster this year)
Thomas Williams (JAC)

SIXTH ROUND (4)
Tom Brady
Jake Ingram
Myron Pryor (showed more promise than Brace did, he'll probably see a moderate amount of time)
Adalius Thomas (BAL) (good riddance! :singing

SEVENTH ROUND (3)
Tully Banta-Cain
Julian Edelman
Darryl Richard

UNDRAFTED PLAYERS (22)
Robbie Agnone
Eric Alexander
Kyle Arrington (you guys seem to be very high on him as a ST player)
Leigh Bodden
Dan Connolly
Adrian Grady
BenJarvus Green-Ellis
Gary Guyton (thanks to Spikes he'll most likely have to compete with McKenzie for the spot as third ILB)
Brian Hoyer (I see him being a decent backup and almost a lock for the 53 man roster, but for obvious reasons, I'm not highlighting)
Darnell Jenkins
Mark LeVoir
Bret Lockett
Brandon McGowan
Marques Murrell
Rob Myers
Stephen Neal
Ron Ninkovich
David Patten
Wes Welker
Ryan Wendell
Pierre Woods (not too sure about this guy)
Mike Wright

Why is BB so bad at drafting in the third round?

 

[eom]

Re: Don't overlook the UDFA's.

he got a starting tackle from the 3rd, and we have no idea about tate or mckenzie yet.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Re: Don't overlook the UDFA's.

Sure, Paschall has a chance to unseat the mighty Green-Ellis, if we choose to keep five running backs. I think it more likely that we will keep four, and sign a veteran free agent if Morris is released.

I think Paschall could unseat one of BJGE, Taylor, or Morris.

I'd rather BJGE and Paschall than Morris (age 33) and Taylor (age 34).

 

[JFK]

Re: Don't overlook the UDFA's.

^^ummm..When on the field, Morris is our best RB.

 

[JSn]

Re: Don't overlook the UDFA's.

I definitely don't discount the UDFA's, but on a team with SO MANY new players over two years, they're going to have to haul ass in OTA's and camp to make the team. I think a couple of them could make the P-Squad, for sure, but beyond that, until we get some more reports, I'd say I doubt ANY (from this class) make the roster this year.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Don't overlook the UDFA's.

Negative Nancy posting here. Both in this thread and others, the biggest unknown aside from the players' camp performances is the inevitable training camp injuries to starters and backups that sadly do produce unexpected opportunities for guys to make the roster.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Re: Don't overlook the UDFA's.

^^ummm..When on the field, Morris is our best RB.

Not saying much.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Don't overlook the UDFA's.

^^ummm..When on the field, Morris is our best RB.

Yes, when he's the only RB on the field, or when he's on the field with BJGE at fullback, at that point, Morris is the team's best RB on the field.

He's the team's 4th best running back overall, though.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Re: Don't overlook the UDFA's.

Negative Nancy posting here. Both in this thread and others, the biggest unknown aside from the players' camp performances is the inevitable training camp injuries to starters and backups that sadly do produce unexpected opportunities for guys to make the roster.

Well a team like the Colts had 12 according to that "study". So they can't be all on the roster because someone got injured. The difference between the players who get drafted in the last 4 rounds and those who don't is very small.

I would even say it's smaller this year because of the depth of players at many positions.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Don't overlook the UDFA's.

Apparently the choice of 2010 running back should depend on age rather than ability.

I find the choice of both BJGE and Paschall over both Morris and Taylor to be a strong candidate for the worst analysis of the year.

Personally, I prefer not to have ANY developmental running backs on the roster. I think that Green-Ellis has been a serious waste of a roster spot. If we wanted a 5th rb, a fullback or short-down back would have made much more sense in the past two years, and thisn year for that matter. I don't think that we will carry four. I think of the roster spot being moved to our new h-back Hernandez.

Running backs should be acquired each year as needed, with long-term contracts as appropriate. I think it a HUGE step backwards to have two developmental running backs as our #2 and #3 halfbacks. Obviously, Faulk is our 3rd down, receiving back.

If Belichick didn't think that he could count on at least ONE of Morris and Taylor, he would have draft a running back and/or signed one in free agency (which could still happen).

The bottom line for me is that if Morris and Taylor aren't sufficient for 2010, then sign someone better. Green-Ellis and Paschall CANNOT be expected to be better than Morris and Taylor as we start the 2010 season. Obviously, either could be injured before the season starts, in which case we would need a replacement.

I think Paschall could unseat one of BJGE, Taylor, or Morris.

I'd rather BJGE and Paschall than Morris (age 33) and Taylor (age 34).

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: Don't overlook the UDFA's.

Apparently the choice of 2010 running back should depend on age rather than ability.

I find the choice of both BJGE and Paschall over both Morris and Taylor to be a strong candidate for the worst analysis of the year.

Personally, I prefer not to have ANY developmental running backs on the roster. I think that Green-Ellis has been a serious waste of a roster spot. If we wanted a 5th rb, a fullback or short-down back would have made much more sense in the past two years, and thisn year for that matter. I don't think that we will carry four. I think of the roster spot being moved to our new h-back Hernandez.

Running backs should be acquired each year as needed, with long-term contracts as appropriate. I think it a HUGE step backwards to have two developmental running backs as our #2 and #3 halfbacks. Obviously, Faulk is our 3rd down, receiving back.

If Belichick didn't think that he could count on at least ONE of Morris and Taylor, he would have draft a running back and/or signed one in free agency (which could still happen).

The bottom line for me is that if Morris and Taylor aren't sufficient for 2010, then sign someone better. Green-Ellis and Paschall CANNOT be expected to be better than Morris and Taylor as we start the 2010 season. Obviously, either could be injured before the season starts, in which case we would need a replacement.

Seriously, what is your problem with BJGE? He has not had the opportunity that Maroney has had, to show what he can really do.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Re: Don't overlook the UDFA's.

Apparently the choice of 2010 running back should depend on age rather than ability.

I find the choice of both BJGE and Paschall over both Morris and Taylor to be a strong candidate for the worst analysis of the year.

Personally, I prefer not to have ANY developmental running backs on the roster. I think that Green-Ellis has been a serious waste of a roster spot. If we wanted a 5th rb, a fullback or short-down back would have made much more sense in the past two years, and thisn year for that matter. I don't think that we will carry four. I think of the roster spot being moved to our new h-back Hernandez.

Running backs should be acquired each year as needed, with long-term contracts as appropriate. I think it a HUGE step backwards to have two developmental running backs as our #2 and #3 halfbacks. Obviously, Faulk is our 3rd down, receiving back.

If Belichick didn't think that he could count on at least ONE of Morris and Taylor, he would have draft a running back and/or signed one in free agency (which could still happen).

The bottom line for me is that if Morris and Taylor aren't sufficient for 2010, then sign
someone better. Green-Ellis and Paschall CANNOT be expected to be better than Morris and Taylor as we start the 2010 season. Obviously, either could be injured before the season starts, in which case we would need a replacement.

What ability exactly does Fred Taylor have being the OLDEST runninghback in the league. Morris is not too far behind. I just think they are toast, both of them. We're going to see 2006 Corey Dillon from both of them. (slow as hell).

BJGE is entering year 3,I'd say he is past the developmental process. I think (I'm not the only one) he deserves to get 5-10 carries a game to prove himself.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Don't overlook the UDFA's.

And why do you think that Green-Ellis sat on the bench when there were two injured running backs for times in 2009?

No player "deserves" a chance to play in the regular season. A player needs to prove himself in the preseason and in practices. Belichick puts the best players on the field. When we had only Maroney and Faulk healthy, Green-Ellis still wasn't worth having on the field. A player that does not get on the field when two players are injured at his position is either a raw developmental rookie, a top special teamer or a roster mistake.

In 100% hindsight, it is clear that there were better uses for a roster spot in 2009 than using it for Green-Ellis. At the time, and in a previous post today, I suggested a short yardage back or a fullback. A 3rd TE also comes to mind.

I have nothing against Green-Ellis. He's been given two years to show Belichick something. If he makes the 53, I will accept that he is a better option than those who do not make the squad. Given the situation in 2009, I would find it surprising that a roster spot will be there for him unless he can show that he is a better player than Morris or Taylor, AND hen is a player who Belichick would expect to play if one of the other running backs were injured.

Seriously, what is your problem with BJGE? He has not had the opportunity that Maroney has had, to show what he can really do.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Re: Don't overlook the UDFA's.

And why do you think that Green-Ellis sat on the bench when there were two injured running backs for times in 2009?

No player "deserves" a chance to play in the regular season. A player needs to prove himself in the preseason and in practices. Belichick puts the best players on the field. When we had only Maroney and Faulk healthy, Green-Ellis still wasn't worth having on the field. A player that does not get on the field when two players are injured at his position is either a raw developmental rookie, a top special teamer or a roster mistake.

In 100% hindsight, it is clear that there were better uses for a roster spot in 2009 than using it for Green-Ellis. At the time, and in a previous post today, I suggested a short yardage back or a fullback. A 3rd TE also comes to mind.

I have nothing against Green-Ellis. He's been given two years to show Belichick something. If he makes the 53, I will accept that he is a better option than those who do not make the squad. Given the situation in 2009, I would find it surprising that a roster spot will be there for him unless he can show that he is a better
player than Morris or Taylor, AND hen is a player who Belichick would expect to play if one of the other running backs were injured.

BJGE was a ESPN top 10 highlight drop away from probably getting good playing time. I can't recall which game, but BJGE drops a diving catch in the endzone and BB took him out.

Like you said earlier though,if BJGE is cut, or one of Morris/Taylor is cut and BJGE is kept, we will see who is right.



You didn't answer my question though. You think Moris and Taylor can still provid at age 33 and 34? RBs usually tank at age 30.