Does Rob Ninkovich make the Pats Hall of Fame?

[Ring 6]

You seem to discount all intangibles etc. Noone can seriously say that Faulk is a "better" football player than e.g. Seymour. But he got in before him. Clearly there are intangibles at work here as well and I believe those favor Ninkovich.

No I don't see more intangibles for ninkovich than other players on teams that won just as much who contributed better play.
Who are you saying he belongs ahead of because of intangibles?

 

[Biffins]

Yes.
Warren was here about just as long and was a better football player.
Solder has protected Brady's blindside for 6 years.
White and butler are not done yet.
Moss was dominant but short term.
Blount is in the ballpark if push came to shove I'd rank nink higher but not drastically.

I love nink but he was a very average player.

Warren? Based on what? Draft status? Aesthetics? Certainly not production.

Solder? So all Left Tackles automatically get in? Mankins is 10x the player Solder is.

Moss was here for just 3 years.

Blount is a JAG, who only was here 3 years. He was paid $1m only last year because he's a JAG. He was let go to head to Pittsburgh because he's a JAG. He was picked up again when no other team would take him because he's a JAG. And he was let go again this year because he's a JAG. To discuss Blount's short 3 years here (2013, 2015, 2016) in the same breath as other Pats Hall of Fame members or candidates is laughable

 

[Biffins]

No I don't see more intangibles for ninkovich than other players on teams that won just as much who contributed better play.
Who are you saying he belongs ahead of because of intangibles?

Vrabel, Warren, Solder

 

[Ring 6]

Vrabel, Warren, Solder

What did ninkovich do that they didn't?
Vrabel was a leader here for a long time. Warren did his job. Solder played through testicular cancer.

 

[BTTA]

You seem to discount all intangibles etc. Noone can seriously say that Faulk is a "better" football player than e.g. Seymour. But he got in before him. Clearly there are intangibles at work here as well and I believe those favor Ninkovich.

Ninkovich's intangibles seem more significant due to primacy-recency rather than reality.

Plus, can we deconstruct "intangibles" at least a little bit? Otherwise it feels like a term that's used to justify a preference without evidence.

 

[Ring 6]

Warren? Based on what? Draft status? Aesthetics? Certainly not production.

Warren was a better football player.

Solder? So all Left Tackles automatically get in? Mankins is 10x the player Solder is.

Wow. Mankins was 10x the player. That doesn't even deserve a response.
Solder was a better lt than nink was a de.

Moss was here for just 3 years.

So you want it to be the hall of longevity?

Blount is a JAG, who only was here 3 years. He was paid $1m only last year because he's a JAG.

Hall of salary? How much did nink make?

was let go to head to Pittsburgh because he's a JAG. He was picked up again when no other team would take him because he's a JAG. And he was let go again this year because he's a JAG. To discuss Blount's short 3 years here (2013, 2015, 2016) in the same breath as other Pats Hall of Fame members or candidates is laughable

A) I revised that. B) teams cut nink too does that make him a Jag?

Look I love nink but he is what he is.

 

[tasmlab]

Assuming the current format continues (one player via fan vote every year, plus one from the veteran's committee every four years; player must be retired for four years), the next few years will look something like this (obviously some of these can be flip flopped, especially not knowing when current players will retire):

2018: Richard Seymour
2019: Rodney Harrison
2019 veteran: Julius Adams
2020: Vince Wilfork
2021: Wes Welker
2022: Adam Vinatieri
2023: Tom Brady
2023 veteran: Russ Francis
2024: Matt Light
2025: Jerod Mayo
2026: Julian Edelman
2027: Mike Vrabel
2027 veteran: Fred Marion/Leon Gray/???
And at some point you can add Bill Belichick.


That's ten years worth of team hall of famers. By that time Ninkovich will be just as forgotten as a more deserving guys like Houston Antwine was for so long, or Julius Adams still is.

Here's a question: who is more deserving: Rob Ninkovich, Dante Scarnecchia, Ernie Adams or Randy Moss?

Great post!

Since the Patriots HOF is, to an extent, a football museum, I think Randy Moss is included because of his general fame as one of the greatest WR ever, his TD record in 2007 and his role in the near perfect season. His play in 2008 and 2009 don't need to count and he's still a big part of the history.

Even if Ernie doesn't get the official jacket, some kind of memorial would be fitting in the Patriots HOF. Five superbowls.

The 2025 spot you've reserved for Mayo could go to Nink depending on how our memories turn out and who hangs around after retirement. Both put in around 8 years and were total Patriot types. Mayo seen as the better player, Nink has 2 rings in a team sport. In a decade we could remember them differently. This said, if Mayo continues to be a personality on the team, shows up for season openers etc., his legacy lives on.

Anyway, I think your analysis is sound and that suggest there is no room for Nink.

 

[Biffins]

Assuming the current format continues (one player via fan vote every year, plus one from the veteran's committee every four years; player must be retired for four years), the next few years will look something like this (obviously some of these can be flip flopped, especially not knowing when current players will retire):

2018: Richard Seymour
2019: Rodney Harrison
2019 veteran: Julius Adams
2020: Vince Wilfork
2021: Wes Welker
2022: Adam Vinatieri
2023: Tom Brady
2023 veteran: Russ Francis
2024: Matt Light
2025: Jerod Mayo
2026: Julian Edelman
2027: Mike Vrabel
2027 veteran: Fred Marion/Leon Gray/???
And at some point you can add Bill Belichick.


That's ten years worth of team hall of famers. By that time Ninkovich will be just as forgotten as a more deserving guys like Houston Antwine was for so long, or Julius Adams still is.

Here's a question: who is more deserving: Rob Ninkovich, Dante Scarnecchia, Ernie Adams or Randy Moss?

Where's Mankins?

 

[pats4life12]

I can think of a few people who should go in before him but yes, I do think he definitely deserves it and will get in eventually.

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

That's ten years worth of team hall of famers. By that time Ninkovich will be just as forgotten as a more deserving guys like Houston Antwine was for so long, or Julius Adams still is.

I think this is right on point. Lots of questions that you have to make assumptions about, looking 10 years or so into the future. What does the organization look like? Who's running it? What about the media landscape? How're we looking back on the prime Ninko teams, i.e., '11, '14, and '16 - especially the years '15 and '16 where he was one of the team captains? Fans are feeling very positive about him now, will they remember that en masse, or forget it over time and need to be reminded?

I think he'll eventually make it - but he's seemingly a prime candidate to be pushed backwards in time by the biggest standouts who've played for the team in this era.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

No. These players are ahead of him, off the top of my head.
Brady
Edelman
Welker
Moss
Light
Solder
Mankins
Seymour
Warren
Wilfork
Hightower
Vrabel
Harrison
Butler
McCourty
Vinatieri
Ghost
Milloy
BB



Others that are in the same ballpark
Woody
Andruzzi
Volmer
Francis
Gray
Blount
White (projecting)
Chandler jones ( better but not as long)
Veris
Adams
Hamilton
Vincent brown
Slade
Lippet
Fox
James
Chung
McDaniel
Weiss
Dante
Crenell
Patricia


I'm sure I missed others but the list is way too long.

This is why he won't, give or take a few of these guys ^

And this list will grow faster than each new player is inducted. Ninkovich was a very good player and fans can appreciate his contributions, but there's no way he is in the top echelon of Patriots, even for this one era.

 

[jmt57]

Where's Mankins?

Good catch, I somehow overlooked him in that post.

Let's try it again.

2018: Richard Seymour
2019: Rodney Harrison
2019 veteran: Julius Adams
2020: Vince Wilfork
2021: Logan Mankins
2022: Wes Welker
2023: Adam Vinatieri
2023 veteran: Russ Francis
2024: Matt Light
2025: Tom Brady
2026: Julian Edelman
2027: Rob Gronkowski
2027 veteran: Fred Marion/Leon Gray/??? (hopefully not Parcells)...
2028: Devin McCourty
2029: Stephen Gostkowski
2030: Jerod Mayo/Mike Vrabel/Rob Ninkovich/Nate Solder/Lawyer Milloy/etc

Obviously some of the dates are very fluid, depending on when current players retire.

As noted above, other current players could push that 2030 group even further down the list.

If - and it is a very big if - Ninkovich is voted in to the Patriot Hall of Fame, it is not going to happen anytime in the near future.

 

[Urgent]

Ninkovich - great career with the Pats.
But as many others have pointed out, the selections the next 10 years are choked, as the Super Bowl core retires.

Many have been comparing his stats to Vrabel's. Vrabel has not gotten in. While their stats are similar, Vrabel was a more versatile defensive player (putting aside the offense).
Vrabel set the edge, rushed the passer, and dropped into coverage. When he played with Willie McGinest, Adalius Thomas and Rosevelt Colvin, he played in the middle of a 3-4. Vrabel was more of a difference-maker.

Ninkovich is a current player and our memories are clearer. Vrabel was playing 10-15 years ago. (!)

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Very interesting case given he never was a Pro Bowl/All-Pro level of talent.

I've always looked at individual team HOFs in a different way than Canton. If looking at it in a similar way, than no, Nink would absolutely not belong in any HOF.

But..I think a team HOF has variables that go beyond outstanding play. Longevity, leadership, etc are the emphasis, rather than simply accolades that are measured league-wide in the form of Pro Bowls/All-Pro selections.

An original "New England" Patriot

Ray Clayborn was drafted out of UT when Adams was already a six-year veteran, and he talked on Thursday about Juli mentoring the younger players on the D-Line, including Lester Williams prior to the '86 AFCCG, where Williams pushed back All-Pro Dwight Stephenson all day.

Just take a minute and think about it. From the very first game played in Foxborough, through the end of 1987 Julius was there for all of it, making huge plays and acquitting himself like a champion on and off the field.

While he did not toot his own horn, he stood tallest among opponents, making it clear to one and all that the Patriots - his team - belonged right up there with anyone and everyone else.

Julius Adams alone, defies all of the moronic incorrect disparagement of the on-field Patriots since the day he was drafted.

He belongs in the Patriots' Hall of Fame.

 

[Nunchucks]

Vrabel was a much better player than Ninkovich. Stats may be somewhat similar but they do not tell the story. 6 more interceptions....set the edge like a beast.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Ninkovich - great career with the Pats.
But as many others have pointed out, the selections the next 10 years are choked, as the Super Bowl core retires.

Many have been comparing his stats to Vrabel's. Vrabel has not gotten in. While their stats are similar, Vrabel was a more versatile defensive player (putting aside the offense).
Vrabel set the edge, rushed the passer, and dropped into coverage. When he played with Willie McGinest, Adalius Thomas and Rosevelt Colvin, he played in the middle of a 3-4. Vrabel was more of a difference-maker.

Ninkovich is a current player and our memories are clearer. Vrabel was playing 10-15 years ago. (!)

Mike caught all those TD passes...and his name rhymes with (Steve) Zabel!!

 

[Alternator]

No, he doesn't get in, and no, I don't think he deserves it. Nink was a solid player for an extended period, but he was neither a star nor the lynchpin of the defense. There are better choices available, and with the way the Patriots draft, there will continue to be better choices until Nink is forgotten.

 

[JayNM]

Too many great players to fit in the team's Hall of Fame

Man, what a life