Dillon to retire?

[Deus Irae]

It sounds like a Lawyer Milloy scenario except Corey used retirement as an excuse first and now is changing his tune this morning.

What other reason would he want to leave the Patriots except because of a paycut?

He's a proud man. Maybe being #2 doesn't sit any better today than it did when he was with the Bengals. I'm not saying it's the case, but it would be another possible reason.

 

[carolinatony]

What are division foes are saying

He really slowed down. I didn't understand that.
But NE has a more than suitable replacement in Maroney. That guy scares me.
Corey was good but he has definately lost a step....no big lost there.

Dillon was on the decline anyway and it was only gonna get worse
, so I actually wish he did stick around for another year and take carries awa
y from Maroney
IMO the Pats are better off, now they can let Maroney carry the load with
no sulking from a declining vet

I have a feeling the Patsies take Leonard with their second #1 now.

on this one I agree with you. NE has a way of rebounding from losses of personnel.
MARONEY is waiting in the wings! They will go out and get a quality RB if they
feel MARONEY can not do it. That is the mystique of NE!

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

What are division foes are saying

He really slowed down. I didn't understand that.
But NE has a more than suitable replacement in Maroney. That guy scares me.
Corey was good but he has definately lost a step....no big lost there.

Dillon was on the decline anyway and it was only gonna get worse
, so I actually wish he did stick around for another year and take carries awa
y from Maroney
IMO the Pats are better off, now they can let Maroney carry the load with
no sulking from a declining vet

I have a feeling the Patsies take Leonard with their second #1 now.

on this one I agree with you. NE has a way of rebounding from losses of personnel.
MARONEY is waiting in the wings! They will go out and get a quality RB if they
feel MARONEY can not do it. That is the mystique of NE!

I hope you're right with them drafting another quality running back.

He's a proud man. Maybe being #2 doesn't sit any better today than it did when he was with the Bengals. I'm not saying it's the case, but it would be another possible reason.

Pride is a vice and the relaity of the situation there were many times he disappeared for stretches at a time. Anybody know if he was one of the flu people in the AFC Champ game?

 

[Brady to Brown]

Something stinks here. Is he asking for his release because another team has offered him big money for one year? If that is the case the Patriots would be crazy to release him. If he is not going to retire then he has trade value.

 

[solman]

So we gotta pay 4.4 - 1.6 mill just to release him? 2.8 mill seems like an awful lot to pay a guy who may or may not retire...

We don't have to pay anything to release him, but (If I'm right about the bonus) we've already paid him nearly $3M in bonuses that have not yet been counted against the cap.

I don't think this really hurts our cap situation. We had to negotiate the Dillon deal this way because of the intricacies of our personal relationship with him. We have more than this amount of cap space comming back to us from the 2006 LTBE bonus of Antwain Spann (and hopefully still more from Koppen and Brown).

 

[solman]

I think according to Miguel, the Pats should gain about 1.6 mill.

I'm not sure how signing bonus works when you retire. Didn't Barry Sanders have to pay his back? Not sure the Pats would require that, but its an awful lot of money to take a hit on, especially if he is hinting at possibly playing elsewehre.

Contracts with signing bonuses usually require players to return the money if they are unable to play for circumstances loaid out in the contract. This should always include reirement, and may also include suspensions and injuies due to off field activity.

HOWEVER, Dillon is not actually planning on retirement. That's just spin.

 

[Ring 6]

Contracts with signing bonuses usually require players to return the money if they are unable to play for circumstances loaid out in the contract. This should always include reirement, and may also include suspensions and injuies due to off field activity.

HOWEVER, Dillon is not actually planning on retirement. That's just spin.

You may be right or wrong, but Im sure you cannot read his mind.
Im sure there could be a motive to pretending he is retiring, but conspiracy theories grow legs around here so Im not buying yet.

 

[solman]

You may be right or wrong, but Im sure you cannot read his mind.
Im sure there could be a motive to pretending he is retiring, but conspiracy theories grow legs around here so Im not buying yet.

I was talking specifically about Dillon having to refund his bonus.

If the Patriots do not cut Dillon, they will be paying him:

$2.5M to play
$2.25M in option bonus [third hand knowledge]
plus
$3.5M has already been paid to him in prorated bonus for 2007-2009 that he will be allowed to keep.

If he retires, all or most of that goes back to the Patriots.

$8.25M is a big chunk of change.

He is NOT going to retire if the Patriots don't release him because he won't want to give up that kind of cash.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I was talking specifically about Dillon having to refund his bonus.

If the Patriots do not cut Dillon, they will be paying him:

$2.5M to play
$2.25M in option bonus [third hand knowledge]
plus
$3.5M has already been paid to him in prorated bonus for 2007-2009 that he will be allowed to keep.

If he retires, all or most of that goes back to the Patriots.

$8.25M is a big chunk of change.

He is NOT going to retire if the Patriots don't release him because he won't want to give up that kind of cash.

I'm not sure where you are getting your figures from. Dillon got a bonus of $3M when he renegotiated his deal in the spring of 2005. $600K per of that was amortized over the 5 years the contract extension covered. So $1.8M of that would remain as amortization - about the same amount we let TJ retire with or a likely wash whether we release him or he retires. He converted $3M in salary to bonus for cap purposes last year. While it remains amortized, he earned it. He deferred the $3M option bonus he was due at that time (in exchange for which they guaranteed and converted that salary) and has not been paid any of it since it isn't due until likely early March (since it was due in March last year, and that is when options are generally due).

The most he would have to give back in retirement would be $1.8M, and the Krafts have a history of not asking for it back from guys who do retire after helping them win achieve dynasty status.

I think you need to switch to decaf.

 

[Pat_Nasty]

My guess is that the Patriots were asking Dillon to take a pay cut to a level more commensurate to his reduced role on the team. Dillon's decided that 8-10 carries for backup-player money isn't worth the rigor and beating. If he's going to risk his health down the road, he wants one more chance to be a feature-back, and he wants it to be worth it, financially.

This makes perfect sense to me.

It also seems like he's trying to make this happen without disparaging his time w/ the Pats, and organization as a whole. My best guess is that his agent will test the waters, and if there's a team interested, he and the Pats might reach a compromise, where he buys out some of his signing bonus.

 

[solman]

I'm not sure where you are getting your figures from. Dillon got a bonus of $3M when he renegotiated his deal in the spring of 2005. $600K per of that was amortized over the 5 years the contract extension covered. So $1.8M of that would remain as amortization - about the same amount we let TJ retire with or a likely wash whether we release him or he retires. He converted $3M in salary to bonus for cap purposes last year. While it remains amortized, he earned it. He deferred the $3M option bonus he was due at that time (in exchange for which they guaranteed and converted that salary) and has not been paid any of it since it isn't due until likely early March (since it was due in March last year, and that is when options are generally due).

The most he would have to give back in retirement would be $1.8M, and the Krafts have a history of not asking for it back from guys who do retire after helping them win achieve dynasty status.

I think you need to switch to decaf.

1. I hate coffee

2. I think we're getting a little side tracked here. All I am saying is that the decision to end Dillon's current deal is being made by the Patriots. Specifically:

IF the Patriots decided to honor Dillon's current deal, and pay him the bonus that he is due under that deal, THEN Dillon would not retire.

3. I agree he's earned the portion of last year's salary that he converted to signing bonus last year. I'm not sure that his contract says that he gets to keep it if he retires.

Since, based on his 2005 play, the Patriots would have been willing to cut him had he not restructured last year, it would have been entirely reasonable for him to agree that this signing bonus be treated like any other (i.e., the prorated portion is returned if he retires).

 

[Ring 6]

1. I hate coffee

2. I think we're getting a little side tracked here. All I am saying is that the decision to end Dillon's current deal is being made by the Patriots. Specifically:

IF the Patriots decided to honor Dillon's current deal, and pay him the bonus that he is due under that deal, THEN Dillon would not retire.

3. I agree he's earned the portion of last year's salary that he converted to signing bonus last year. I'm not sure that his contract says that he gets to keep it if he retires.

Since, based on his 2005 play, the Patriots would have been willing to cut him had he not restructured last year, it would have been entirely reasonable for him to agree that this signing bonus be treated like any other (i.e., the prorated portion is returned if he retires).

Is #2 specualtion, or are you purporting it as fact?
I don't know that i get the same conclusion. Dillon has said he is retiring for the reasons players typically retire. I don't assume that his decision is motivated by money, and havent heard any credible evidence that the Patriots told him they won't honor his contract, so that forced him into retirement.
Can yuo clarify please?

 

[Ring 6]

I was talking specifically about Dillon having to refund his bonus.

If the Patriots do not cut Dillon, they will be paying him:

$2.5M to play
$2.25M in option bonus [third hand knowledge]
plus
$3.5M has already been paid to him in prorated bonus for 2007-2009 that he will be allowed to keep.

If he retires, all or most of that goes back to the Patriots.

$8.25M is a big chunk of change.

He is NOT going to retire if the Patriots don't release him because he won't want to give up that kind of cash.

he said he was retiring. Where does the conclusion that he wouldnt retire if the money was right come from? I have not heard him say at all that it has anything to do with money.
He already has the 3.5 million, and while technically I suppose he could be required to give it back, I don't think there is any realistic expectation that it would happen.
Ultimately it boils down to he has a 2.5mill salary, which you are saying he would change his mind about retirement to earn, but somewhere behind the scenes, the Patriots told him he had to take less and he wants to retire becuase its less? Since the Pats would stand to save something along the lines of 1.5mill to not have him, I'm sure they would be willing to save less than 1.5 mill TO have him, so they would clearly be willing to pay him more than 1mill. Does your argument boil down to Dillon is being disingenuous and lying publicly because his decision is that he wants to play if he gets 2.5mill but retire if he get 1mill, and age, injury risk, his health for the rest of life mean nothing and he would sell them for 1.5million dollars?
Thats a sad commentary on human nature to me.

 

[Handel]

Pats agreed to release him: http://www.patriots.com/news/index.cfm?ac=latestnewsdetail&pid=24230&pcid=41

 

[Ring 6]

Pats agreed to release him: http://www.patriots.com/news/index.cfm?ac=latestnewsdetail&pid=24230&pcid=41

Careful, though, that says the agent said the Patriots will release him, not the Patriots said they will release him.
Probably before long it will be confirmed by the Pats, but before they do its still speculation.
I'm not sure why the Pats would have reason to release him. They don't have to release him for him to retire, and they don't need to free up cap space.

I guess this brings up the question of whether there is a bonus coming due soon

 

[solman]

he said he was retiring. Where does the conclusion that he wouldnt retire if the money was right come from? I have not heard him say at all that it has anything to do with money.
He already has the 3.5 million, and while technically I suppose he could be required to give it back, I don't think there is any realistic expectation that it would happen.
Ultimately it boils down to he has a 2.5mill salary, which you are saying he would change his mind about retirement to earn, but somewhere behind the scenes, the Patriots told him he had to take less and he wants to retire becuase its less? Since the Pats would stand to save something along the lines of 1.5mill to not have him, I'm sure they would be willing to save less than 1.5 mill TO have him, so they would clearly be willing to pay him more than 1mill. Does your argument boil down to Dillon is being disingenuous and lying publicly because his decision is that he wants to play if he gets 2.5mill but retire if he get 1mill, and age, injury risk, his health for the rest of life mean nothing and he would sell them for 1.5million dollars?
Thats a sad commentary on human nature to me.

In the real world people DO trade health for money, and it often turns out to be the correct decision for them.

If they didn't make this tradeoff, there would be no NFL.


I made my assertion based on financial reality and common sense, not on what Dillon said. Since then Dillon and his agent have said a bunch of things to back me up:


Albert Breer writes:

Agent Steve Feldman said late last night that Corey Dillon is not retiring. Rather, Feldman said that Dillon has asked for his release, and that wish will be granted on March 2, the first day of the NFL’s free agency period. At that point, Dillon will look for a bigger role with a new team.

Dillon's agent says:

We were in discussions the last few days and, based on the roster and the offense, we felt there were better opportunities out there in the NFL

Also according to Alber Breer:

FSN’s Greg ****erson passed along word that he just spoke with Patriots RB Corey Dillon, and Dillon told him that his intention is not necessarily to retire immediately — it’s just one of the options he’s considering.

He is, however, definitely done with the Patriots, saying a return “is not going to happen.'’ He said that was his mindset even before the season began and in reference to the idea of coming back to Foxboro he added that he’s “Been there, done that.'’

With the season more than six months away, Dillon said, “Right now it’s too early to be talking about football. I’m just enjoying my time off.'’

I am aware of no interview in which Dillon said "The Patriots wouldn't give me enough money to make another year worth it, so I'm going to try to find a team that will meet my price" but if you don't read between the lines and see that, then I think you're being deliberately obtuse.


Also, as far as your assertion that the Patriots would only save $1.5M, that's not correct. It will cost the Patriots close to $4.8M to keep Dillon for one more year under his current contract. The 2007 salary cap impact might only be $1.5M (or less), but the remaining amount would have to be made up in dead money in 2008.

If we kept Dillon on his current contract all the way through 2009, it would cost us nearly $10M for three years.

 

[solman]

I guess this brings up the question of whether there is a bonus coming due soon

There IS a bonus comming due soon. Based on the numbers that Miguel attributes to a Colt troll, that bonus is $2.25M.