Did The Baltimore Game Change Anyones Views On "Team Needs"?

[Leemo]

I don't think needs have necessarily changed we still need the following areas strengthening. Hopefully some of these needs are addressed in free agency as we need some proven players and not just a boat full of rookies.

In no particular order
Secondary
D-line
Outside backers
Wideout

 

[p8ryts]

Agree completely with you on the WR. Who that guy is in the draft I don't know, most receivers don't seem to have the deep speed to perform successfully in the possession game and the deep threat game.

I'm high on Sanu but his speed is a question mark. I know you like Criner but I think there are reasons why he is rated so low by the experts (mental issues I've seen hinted at). Dwight Jones seems like a possibility but he seems un-patriot like with his drops and sloppy performance.

So here are four names I think qualify as all round receivers who are draftable, have the skills but also have big question marks:

Tommy Streeter
Jeff Fuller (think his stock is going to soar)
Rueben Randle
Jarius Wright

Thoughts?

BJ Cunningham Michigan St?

 

[p8ryts]

Cover Corner
Free Safety
Strong Safety
Pass Rusher

Maybe McCourty returns to form on the corner or at free safety.
Ihedigbo is not the answer to anything.
Chung, jury still out for me, hurt a lot
Arrington, ok but nothing great
Dowling looked good but will he ever be on the field
Jones and Molden, I don't think so.
Andre Carter, surprised me on the run and pass, bring him back
Anderson, better than what we have had since Willie and Vrabel were in their prime.
I like those two but the goal needs to be to improve there. Anderson has the speed but not the power. Combines well with an inside rush.
DT's look solid to me.

I admit to being a kool aid drinker and in bill I trust but I swear when we draft DB's we screw them up in the coaching. Our guys can never turn to the ball and that seems to be coaching to me. I say we need a top secondary coach. Even Dom Capers did not improve them when he was here.

The game didn't change my views but exacerbated the need for defensive players.
Offense was fine. People were open, Tommy over threw or fixated on Welker. Putting in Slater as a deep threat is a waste of down. Better off with Tiquan.

 

[MaineMan]

You think a legit sub for Gronk and Hernandez could be found that easily? It took BB , what, 9 or 10 years to find those guys. Despite spending many draft picks trying to get something like either one of them. I saw no effort in the offseason of BB looking for a "legit sub" for Gronk or Hernandez. I only saw a halfhearted effort to find a blocking TE. He even cut Crumpler. BB decided to use backup OTs in that role instead.

No, if Gronk or Hernandez are out for any significant time we just change attacks and keep on kicking tail. Just like we did this year when Hernandez was out with a knee injury.

Where did I say (or as much as barely imply) it would be "easy" (especially with the 2012 crop of TEs)?

The guys I referred to were all blockers first, yes, and certainly more likely to be Crumpler replacements, at least to start. The only point I was making in mentioning those guys is that their acquisition in the first place seems to make it apparent that BB is not done with his search, at least for development projects, just because he's got Gronk and Ahern now. I have a difficult time believing that finding a guy or two who can fill at least part of Gronk/Ahern's roles isn't fairly high on his priority list. That doesn't necessarily mean (nor did I intend to suggest) that he's going to spend another relatively high pick on a TE this draft, just that we're very likely to see some new TE faces in 2012 camp again, one way or another.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

1. This year we most likely lose Gerard Warren and Shaun Ellis. Both are up there in age and likely to retire. Wilfork, Deaderick, Love are the only DT's on the team. We definitely need more depth at DT.

2. We went from having the best deep threat in the game, to having no deep threat at all. This is why I was so opposed to releasing Brandon Tate. He was pretty much our only burner at WR. Teams can sit on our short/intermediate routes and that forces Brady to hold onto the ball longer. The Ravens did it last week, the Jets did it last year.

 

[MaineMan]

I liked ****erson out of UPitt in the 2010 draft; and if Bill hadn't already taken Shake & Bake,
then I would've been hoping that ****erson could've lasted until our 3 7th-round comps.
I look forward to monitoring his progress during TC; perhaps he could be the HBack/3rd TE/6th WR guy
who brings both versatility (i.e., roster-saving space) & production
to the post-OchoStinko/Kid 'n Play Error.

Agree 110% on ****erson. He was one of my 2010 binkies. Really happy that he's on the roster, even if it's just the PS for now.

 

[MaineMan]

My argument is 3 legit targets is what is needed in the current incarnation of the Patriots offense to function at the highest level. And by legit, I mean someone who will abuse single coverage over the course of a game. Right now trying to cover Welker, Gronk or Hernandez 1 v 1 with anyone other than Revis is a fools errand. Safety or zone help is almost always needed. We can't say that about
Branch/Ocho/Edelman/Underwood/Woodhead/Ridley/Law Firm/Solder. They profit from either being able to run to the soft spot in the zone, or winning only a portion of their 1v1 battles that often is aided by the defense selling out against the Big-3.

Most defenses can handle one guy that demands extra attention. Good defenses are able to handle two guys that demand extra attention. Defenses start to breakdown when three guys need extra attention.

So if we assume that the Pats want 3 legit match-up nightmares, a 4th is a very desirable commodity as a functional reserve.

As a side note, the Steelers are in cap trouble. WR Mike Wallace is an upcoming RFA and I don't think the Steelers can afford to franchise him, so the strongest hold on his rights the Steelers may be able to afford if there is no long term deal before the start of free agency would be a 1st round RFA tender. Would he be worth #32 and a 5 year 35 million dollar contract?

If we're looking at Steelers receivers for comparison, I'd actually rather try for an Antonio Brown type in the 3rd/4th. He has good deep speed (not Wallace-level, but still good), AND he seems more effective than Wallace at running other routes. He's also a fine PR/KR. IOW, he's what the Pats were hoping Tate or Price would be.

 

[jsull87]

1. This year we most likely lose Gerard Warren and Shaun Ellis. Both are up there in age and likely to retire. Wilfork, Deaderick, Love are the only DT's on the team. We definitely need more depth at DT.

2. We went from having the best deep threat in the game, to having no deep threat at all. This is why I was so opposed to releasing Brandon Tate. He was pretty much our only burner at WR. Teams can sit on our short/intermediate routes and that forces Brady to hold onto the ball longer. The Ravens did it last week, the Jets did it last year.

Don't forget that we will hopefully be getting back: Brace, Pryor and Wright to our defensive front after all were IR/PUP'd this year. So their health has a direct correlation to the need at DT / 3-4 DE.

 

[captain stone]

I wouldn't count on Pryor or esp. Wright for anything next season, or any season.

We need more than just fat-bodies & IR-bodies on our DL; we need healthy young athletes, too.

 

[mrscruff]

If we're looking at Steelers receivers for comparison, I'd actually rather try for an Antonio Brown type in the 3rd/4th. He has good deep speed (not Wallace-level, but still good), AND he seems more effective than Wallace at running other routes. He's also a fine PR/KR. IOW, he's what the Pats were hoping Tate or Price would be.

Antonio Brown was voted the Team MVP this year. Over 1000 yards apiece receiving and returning in the same year. First man in NFL history to achieve the feat.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Where did I say (or as much as barely imply) it would be "easy" (especially with the 2012 crop of TEs)?

The guys I referred to were all blockers first, yes, and certainly more likely to be Crumpler replacements, at least to start. The only point I was making in mentioning those guys is that their acquisition in the first place seems to make it apparent that BB is not done with his search, at least for development projects, just because he's got Gronk and Ahern now. I have a difficult time believing that finding a guy or two who can fill at least part of Gronk/Ahern's roles isn't fairly high on his priority list. That doesn't necessarily mean (nor did I intend to suggest) that he's going to spend another relatively high pick on a TE this draft, just that we're very likely to see some new TE faces in 2012 camp again, one way or another.

I certainly hope you're right, blocking technique can be taught, bodies can be strengthened, but it's kinda tough to teach elite receiving and field navigation skills, this is why we need COBY FLEENER!

 

[Peachhead]

Where did I say (or as much as barely imply) it would be "easy" (especially with the 2012 crop of TEs)?

The guys I referred to were all blockers first, yes, and certainly more likely to be Crumpler replacements, at least to start. The only point I was making in mentioning those guys is that their acquisition in the first place seems to make it apparent that BB is not done with his search, at least for development projects, just because he's got Gronk and Ahern now. I have a difficult time believing that finding a guy or two who can fill at least part of Gronk/Ahern's roles isn't fairly high on his priority list. That doesn't necessarily mean (nor did I intend to suggest) that he's going to spend another relatively high pick on a TE this draft, just that we're very likely to see some new TE faces in 2012 camp again, one way or another.

OK, then I totally misunderstood your original position.

 

[Daigle]

I certainly hope you're right, blocking technique can be taught, bodies can be strengthened, but it's kinda tough to teach elite receiving and field navigation skills, this is why we need COBY FLEENER!

Ye I like this Fleener guy too. Not elite speed maybe but gets separation and makes plays. If he is available in 3rd rounds maybe we should pick him.
Or which round would be a good pick for us, taking him ?

 

[Wilfork#75]

Ye I like this Fleener guy too. Not elite speed maybe but gets separation and makes plays. If he is available in 3rd rounds maybe we should pick him.
Or which round would be a good pick for us, taking him ?

The consensus seems that he is the #2 TE in this draft behind Dwayne Allen from Clemson. He's probably a 2nd round pick at the moment, but I can see some team trying to replecate the Pats and draft him late in the 1st. I'm not as high on him as others, and I don't think TE is a huge need, so there is no way I would look at him that high. I would prefer a raw, but high upside guy like Ladarius Green in the 4th round.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Ye I like this Fleener guy too. Not elite speed maybe but gets separation and makes plays. If he is available in 3rd rounds maybe we should pick him.
Or which round would be a good pick for us, taking him ?

I take him in the early 2nd round depending on who's available in the first, if Coples or Upshaw are available at 27 I go for them and then try to trade back #32 (knock on wood) a few spots and grab Fleener there.

Right now my realistic offseason plan is something like this.

- Sign Welker
- Sign Lloyd
- Sign FA DT or DE (this also depends on whether Ellis and Warren can still play, and want to return)
- Sign the best FA safety available

With a stud TE like Fleener available, the offense would be in outstanding shape, leaving only upgrades/depth as a need for the O-line.

I'd like to add some youth to the D-line, and Alameda Ta'amu is still my binkie (reminds me of Haloti Ngata).

So, these are my main draft targets, in no particular order.

- Coby Fleener
- Alameda Ta'amu
- Kenny Tate
- Janoris Jenkins
- Nate Potter
- Senio Kelemete
- Devon Wylie "The Coyote"

 

[Sciz]

So, these are my main draft targets, in no particular order.

- Coby Fleener
- Alameda Ta'amu
- Kenny Tate
- Janoris Jenkins
- Nate Potter
- Senio Kelemete
- Devon Wylie "The Coyote"

Tate is going back to school. I am a huge fan of Fleener, Jenkins, and Wylie, though

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I certainly hope you're right, blocking technique can be taught, bodies can be strengthened, but it's kinda tough to teach elite receiving and field navigation skills, this is why we need COBY FLEENER!

Yes blocking can be taught, but the courage to block can NOT be taught. Without that courage you are not going to get good blockers no matter how much you teach them.

"Willing" blocker is a term draftniks use for guys that have some success as blockers, but would rather not do it.

There are very few college TE's that are good blockers, route runners and have hands.

The thing about Fleenor is that he has a lot of tape of him blocking. He is not nearly the blocker that Graham was at Colorado, but he appears to have the courage to be a blocker. Add to that the tremendous tape he has as an excellent route runner and the good hands to boot (10 TD's this year) and you have a TE that should interest BB.

The question for BB is how mugh of his cap should he be spending on a third string TE, because Fleenor is rising up draft boards and if he runs a 4.6 at the combine, he will be a first rounder.

The "untapped potential" TE that might appeal to BB is from NC State. He was used terribly this year and wound up on the bench after being all ACC the year before. As an UDFA, he might be able to stick on the roster where Smith could not earlier this year.

Another TE BB should have an eye on is Eifert of Notre Dame. A day three pick, he is not the player Fleenor is, but could stick immediately due to ST and middle of the field route running and catching.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Yes blocking can be taught, but the courage to block can NOT be taught. Without that courage you are not going to get good blockers no matter how much you teach them.

"Willing" blocker is a term draftniks use for guys that have some success as blockers, but would rather not do it.

There are very few college TE's that are good blockers, route runners and have hands.

The thing about Fleenor is that he has a lot of tape of him blocking. He is not nearly the blocker that Graham was at Colorado, but he appears to have the courage to be a blocker. Add to that the tremendous tape he has as an excellent route runner and the good hands to boot (10 TD's this year) and you have a TE that should interest BB.

The question for BB is how mugh of his cap should he be spending on a third string TE, because Fleenor is rising up draft boards and if he runs a 4.6 at the combine, he will be a first rounder.

The "untapped potential" TE that might appeal to BB is from NC State. He was used terribly this year and wound up on the bench after being all ACC the year before. As an UDFA, he might be able to stick on the roster where Smith could not earlier this year.

Another TE BB should have an eye on is Eifert of Notre Dame. A day three pick, he is not the player Fleenor is, but could stick immediately due to ST and middle of the field route running and catching.

I’m not so sure he’ll be a 3rd string TE, he’ll line up there but I also think he’ll line up wide quite a bit. Many people have spoken about our need for a deep/outside threat, I think he gives us exactly that and would be worth an early 2nd round pick.

That said, it’s certainly possible someone grabs him before we can, so I’m all about looking into the raw prospects with a lot of upside.

 

[manxman2601]

Yes blocking can be taught, but the courage to block can NOT be taught. Without that courage you are not going to get good blockers no matter how much you teach them.

"Willing" blocker is a term draftniks use for guys that have some success as blockers, but would rather not do it.

There are very few college TE's that are good blockers, route runners and have hands.

The thing about Fleenor is that he has a lot of tape of him blocking. He is not nearly the blocker that Graham was at Colorado, but he appears to have the courage to be a blocker. Add to that the tremendous tape he has as an excellent route runner and the good hands to boot (10 TD's this year) and you have a TE that should interest BB.

The question for BB is how mugh of his cap should he be spending on a third string TE, because Fleenor is rising up draft boards and if he runs a 4.6 at the combine, he will be a first rounder.

The "untapped potential" TE that might appeal to BB is from NC State. He was used terribly this year and wound up on the bench after being all ACC the year before. As an UDFA, he might be able to stick on the roster where Smith could not earlier this year.

Another TE BB should have an eye on is Eifert of Notre Dame. A day three pick, he is not the player Fleenor is, but could stick immediately due to ST and middle of the field route running and catching.

Pretty sure Eifert's going back to school.

 

[fester]

I’m not so sure he’ll be a 3rd string TE, he’ll line up there but I also think he’ll line up wide quite a bit. Many people have spoken about our need for a deep/outside threat, I think he gives us exactly that and would be worth an early 2nd round pick.

That said, it’s certainly possible someone grabs him before we can, so I’m all about looking into the raw prospects with a lot of upside.

I'm pretty sure that by practicality, it is near impossible for a tight-end to be a deep threat, as there are not too many 250lbers who are able to run a consistent 4.43 or less.