Dennard violation hearing postponed...a whopping 10 days

[supafly]

Yes it was dude.

The 7/31 date was for Dennard to be arraigned on his violation of probation charge, which he then moved up to 7/24 and was promptly arraigned on that date.

Try to get it right before you go throwing around shots.

Good lord...

"Patriots cornerback Alfonzo Dennard was arraigned today, a week earlier than expected." (per July 24th, 2013)

You don't know much about what you're talking about in terms of the process of the legal system, then you proceed to start throwing around some kind of shots like you do?

I don't get you at all...As I stated multiple times, in the state of Nebraska the defendant is first arraigned on the violation of probation charge. That was scheduled for 7/31 but moved up by Dennard himself so that he wouldn't miss TC for a day.

At the time of the 7/24 arraignment when it became formal, the judge then scheduled the next date for Dennard to appear before her on 8/27. The prosecution changed that by moving it back 10 days yesterday for their first time ever.

The VOP process is a 2 step process that includes arraignment (7.24), and then the actual physical court hearing in front of the judge (now 9.6).

 

[JMC00]

You tell me who is winning so far based on the fact that they filed an immediate revocation of his probation, where he's since been arraigned on those charges...

That state did that because they are mad Dennard got off relatively easy with the 30 day sentence pushed out a year.

That was clear when the district attorney said he wouldn't cut any deal and they were going for the maximum.

Immediate revocation isn't a rare thing, it's a very regular thing especially when it comes to guys that got out of jail time or got a less severe punishment than what the district attorney's office wanted.

The fact that they have enough evidence to base new charges on him speaks otherwise.

What evidence do they have for new charges?

 

[supafly]

What the hell is your problem? Do you even pay attention to what you posts? You just posted the OLD link from MUTT& Merloni talking to the Neb. Attorney (from July 11th the day of Dennard's arrest) and then posted a synopsis of the discussion with the attorney. The attorney flat out said they could ask for a Violation of Probation hearing just for the fact that he'd been pulled over.

Believe me, I'm well educated on the system and I'm well aware of the process of violation of probation, so I'm not sure what you're getting at?

I have degrees in Criminal Justice and Forensics. I also have a minor with a focus on Criminal Psychology. You can fill me in on the process of what ever you're educated in and I'd gladly listen without calling you names or taking shots. In the meantime, try not to get your panties in a bunch and just listen to what I am saying. This isn't opinionated, it's factual.

I posted the link to allow everyone to hear the opinion of a Nebraska defense atty--nothing more. The fact that it's from a certain date has nothing to do with anything. It's to allow everyone here to listen to a Nebraska defense attorney because she knows about the specifics. I'm aware of everything she said and fully agree with it. I already knew all of those facts prior to listening to it.

As for the video and the word of 2 sworn officers. Well, we don't know what is on the video and there are plenty of corrupt cops around. Acting like there isn't is just being naive.

The bottom line is that EVERY criminal and defendant in the history of mankind claims that they didn't do anything wrong, just in case you haven't noticed.

The 2 officers (one was a sergeant) and their opinions matter a lot, despite your opinion. If it were as simple as a "he said/she said" matter no one would ever get prosecuted. They had enough reason to bring forth charges against Dennard and they didn't base it on a malfunctioning machine, or what ever you're trying to claim...

Obviously something is on the video along with the sworn testimony of 2 proven and sworn police officers to enable to prosecutor to allow charges to be brought forth. This isn't 1835, it's 2013. They have a proper check and balance system called "probable cause" which allows them to have enough evidence to proceed with charges. This evidence is checked by the prosecutor prior to bringing forth charges in ANY case.

If you wish to believe that this doesn't take place, go right ahead. In the meantime, Dennard's "word" and opinion is on the wrong side of the fence. He is up against a pretty big challenge whether he actually did it or not. His word means nothing, especially combined with their other evidence.

There aren't NEW charges.

"There aren't NEW charges?"

What the hell do you call the DUI charges? That's the "new" charges that allowed them to proceed with the violation of probation case, which only occurs with

1) a technical violation like failed drug tests

or

2) 'new' charges such as being arrested

You're absolutely wrong that these aren't "new" charges. That's exactly what they are. Now you're just making yourself look even more foolish than you already have, and believe me--you set the bar pretty high with your opinion in the Aaron Hernandez case that he was definitely innocent and the media was screwing with him.

BTW, the July 31st hearing was NOT for arraignment. But you keep telling yourself that if it allows you to sleep at night.

You're absolutely out of your mind....

(per a July 24th report)

"Patriots cornerback Alfonzo Dennard was arraigned today, a week earlier than expected."

As I said about 10x now, any time a defendant is brought forth on violation of probation charges in the state of Nebraska, they are put through a 2 part process beginning with arraignment on the VOP charges.

At that time it's nothing more than a formal technicality, and that took place on 7.24 when Dennard requested that the 7.31 date be moved up so that he wouldn't miss a day of TC.

At that time the judge then schedules a new date for approx one month later (that's where the 8/27 date came from that was moved back 10 days yesterday). On that new date Dennard will complete the 2nd part of the process and go in front of the judge. That court date is currently set for 9.6, as per requested from the prosecution.

 

[Joker]

I have degrees in Criminal Justice and Forensics. I also have a minor with a focus on Criminal Psychology. You can fill me in on the process of what ever you're educated in and I'd gladly listen without calling you names or taking shots. In the meantime, try not to get your panties in a bunch and just listen to what I am saying. This isn't opinionated, it's factual.

OK bigmouth...if you're so dyam smart tell me this....who STOLE Tebow's left arm while he was sleeping and left a double jointed jackass's foreleg in its' place?

 

[supafly]

That state did that because they are mad Dennard got off relatively easy with the 30 day sentence pushed out a year.

That was clear when the district attorney said he wouldn't cut any deal and they were going for the maximum.

The prosecutor never asked for the "maximum" as you say. The maximum would have been about 7 yrs.

The prosecutor actually claimed that he didn't even know if they'd ask for jail time or not, and said that Dennard could get anything from probation to a suspended sentence to a small amount of jail time.

First time offenders typically have a very small score on the sentencing scale, so there's no way that any prosecutor in their right mind would have felt that they'd ask for anything more than some minor jail time. There's absolutely no hint that the prosecution was unhappy with the outcome or punishment, and if you continue to read I provide an actual quote from the prosecutor himself regarding this issue.

Immediate revocation isn't a rare thing, it's a very regular thing especially when it comes to guys that got out of jail time or got a less severe punishment than what the district attorney's office wanted.

Most violation of probation cases occur when the new charges (or technical violation if it's a series of failed drug tests etc) are played out. In other words, many defendants who are on probation cannot accept plea deals due to the fact that they'd violate, and the prosecution is well aware of that when attempting to offer pleas (as happens per every 4/5 cases in the USA).

It is indeed very rare for a VOP case (probably 1/8 or 1/10) to be done prior to the findings of the "new" charges.

And again--you refer to the prosecution not being satisfied with the outcome of the case, which really isn't true at all... (per the journalstar.com)

"In court Thursday, Deputy County Attorney Matt Acton didn't ask for a specific sentence, but he said Kopsa continues to experience irritation with his jaw from the punch.

The courts have treated this type of offense very seriously in the past, he said in asking for a sentence that wouldn't depreciate the seriousness of what Dennard did or treat him differently than anyone else.

In a letter, Acton supplied the judge with information on 12 others convicted of similar offenses.

But Dennard's attorney, Terry Dougherty, pointed to that as proof Dennard should get probation. Of the 12, 11 had extensive criminal records going in, and one had a prior theft and was being arrested for another when he assaulted an officer, he said.

In other words, the prosecution was quite happy with the fact that Dennard was even receiving jail time. The judge even said at the trial that she would suspend his 30 days in the spring if he just stayed out of trouble, and the prosecution had no problem with it.

They found a fair ground between what the state was asking for (small jail time based on his sentencing score) and what the defense wanted (probation).

What evidence do they have for new charges?

Any time a probationee comes into what they refer to as "negative contact" with a police officer, or is arrested--he or she can be violated immediately under certain circumstances. As I said though, 9/10 cases they wait until the outcome is finished before asking for a revocation of probation, or before outright violating them in court.

Special circumstances would be for sexual offenders, drug dealers, repeat offenders of violent crimes etc. It is always up to the discretion of the probation officer, the prosecutor, and the judge--but it always starts with the probation officer.

The problem is that is the defendant is not found guilty of the new charges, it's unfair to hold a new increased punishment against them--so that's why they often wait to proceed with VOP charges in most cases, with the exception of the examples that I gave that are more serious in nature. In those cases, they simply violate the offender and place him in jail until the new case can be resolved.

 

[JMC00]

You're way too invested in this.

 

[supafly]

OK bigmouth...if you're so dyam smart tell me this....who STOLE Tebow's left arm while he was sleeping and left a double jointed jackass's foreleg in its' place?

That's easy old man...YOU did

In all seriousness, you know my nature. I'm always very humble, quiet, and respectful. I'm simply explaining the fact that I know about the subject, so that was the only intent. Nothing more. As I've always said, there are many more who know 10x the amount about certain subjects. I'm just trying to state that I have a working knowledge of the process and that I'm not some kid who is up hitting the bong who has an opinion and nothing to back it up with...(pssst...I think we may have one of those)

I'm just stating facts. Like it or not, this is exactly what is going on. It isn't speculative like the Hernandez case where we bounce ideas off of each other.

 

[supafly]

You're way too invested in this.

Sorry if I "bored" you. I tried to answer your questions and provide links and quotes to help you understand what was going on. You seemed to have some pretty bold opinions, so I assumed that you understood and/or were interested. You asked me to answer questions and I did, in a very straightforward way.

I think you were very misinformed about the prosecution not getting what they wanted in the assault case, so maybe that's why you are saying that?

Don't blame me because you chose to take part in a discussion and then couldn't accept the answer

 

[supafly]

OK bigmouth...if you're so dyam smart tell me this....who STOLE Tebow's left arm while he was sleeping and left a double jointed jackass's foreleg in its' place?

You may play the part of the old crank who is against society, but the truth is that you're 2x as smart and educated as most here. You aren't fooling me.

 

[Joker]

you know...I never give you advice ...but...I can tell you...what a tremendous catharsis I felt when the first Tebow Time Gaa Gaa Goony vid was done...it was like...all the venom and ill will I felt just dissipated into thin air...maybe you should think of making one yourself....get yourself a faceless dummy and sit him next to you and proceed to tell him off in no uncertain terms...maybe wear one of the 17th English judge wigs and weild a wooden thwacker to keep whacking the dummy when you make another point...I mean, you can REALLY go off...way over the edge...because..THIS is the iNTERWEB!!!

It's all true and everything is permitted!

http://youtu.be/3svB0cl3gGs

you know...it's always good when we can talk these things out...

 

[supafly]

you know...I never give you advice ...but...I can tell you...what a tremendous catharsis I felt when the first Tebow Time Gaa Gaa Goony vid was done...it was like...all the venom and ill will I felt just dissipated into thin air...maybe you should think of making one yourself....get yourself a faceless dummy and sit him next to you and proceed to tell him off in no uncertain terms...maybe wear one of the 17th English judge wigs and weild a wooden thwacker to keep whacking the dummy when you make another point...I mean, you can REALLY go off...way over the edge...because..THIS is the iNTERWEB!!!

It's all true and everything is permitted!

Gene Wilder's best scene - YouTube

you know...it's always good when we can talk these things out...

Oh man, Gene Wilder was a funny dude.

I can't say that I'm as familiar with all of his work at others, but the stuff I have seen is pretty good.

 

[Joker]

yeah...that scene is sorta politically incorrect....

...lagging behind again?...you can't hunt...you can't ride...you can't shoot...what kind of a marriage IS this?!!!!......you couldn't make a scene like that these days...

 

[DarrylS]

This illustrates the slippery slope of Violation of Probation, that even though he has not been found guilty of the driving while impaired charge, they can still try to violate the terms of his probation because he might have done it...

Is the cart before the horse??? This is why a lot of people go to jail...

 

[PatsFan2]

The original violation of probation hearing that was scheduled for tomorrow has apparently been postponed until next Friday 9/6.

As we know, Dennard has already been arraigned on the violation of probation charges as of last month, and was scheduled to go in front of the judge tomorrow.

Let the speculation begin as to why it was postponed only 10 days, and more importantly--why they'd schedule it for the Friday preparation day of the season opener.
Alfonzo Dennard due in court two days before Patriots? opener | ProFootballTalk

As to why maybe the Judge is a Ras-I Dowling fan seriously this one of the reasons why Glass-IR-Dowling will make the Team too much uncertainty.

 

[PP2]

OK bigmouth...if you're so dyam smart tell me this....who STOLE Tebow's left arm while he was sleeping and left a double jointed jackass's foreleg in its' place?

My nomination for the post of the year.

 

[goheels22002]

This Dennard legal situation is disconcerting. It's possible that he gets hung up in Nebraska two days before the Bills game. Doesn't this:

a) make keeping Marquice Cole a necessity just to have sufficient CBs on the team in the event that Dennard is detained? and

b) make old friend Derrick Martin who was cut by the Bears yesterday someone to bring back for a third tour of duty? Derrick Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last question, can the Patriots put Dennard on the PUP list if he is in jail or cleaning up litter on Nebraska highways because, technically, with shackles on his ankles, he'll be physically unable to perform? What are the options with him?

 

[supafly]

This Dennard legal situation is disconcerting. It's possible that he gets hung up in Nebraska two days before the Bills game. Doesn't this:

a) make keeping Marquice Cole a necessity just to have sufficient CBs on the team in the event that Dennard is detained? and

b) make old friend Derrick Martin who was cut by the Bears yesterday someone to bring back for a third tour of duty? Derrick Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last question, can the Patriots put Dennard on the PUP list if he is in jail or cleaning up litter on Nebraska highways because, technically, with shackles on his ankles, he'll be physically unable to perform? What are the options with him?

I think that there may be a good argument for keeping an extra CB if the news is true that they are expecting him to miss games and be punished. What specific CB's are in the running are anyone's guess of course, but Belichick will likely be preparing himself for all angles as usual.

I'm not quite as sure that he'll be severely punished to the point of having to miss too much time though. I would think that a couple games from the league (if they have that right, which is a whole other can of worms) would be sufficient. I actually think that the team may take their own approach and sit him down for a game like we've seen other teams do in the past. Sometimes this is enough to satisfy the NFL requirements for player in-house discipline.

As far as the judge's disposition for the VOP charge IF his defense can't get it pushed back far enough in the future which is always a possibility, I think she'll find a fair middle ground that doesn't take things overboard.

In other words, let's assume that he's guilty of the DUI..hell, the prosecution and his probation officer already are or they wouldn't have violated him early to begin with. The fact that he committed a DUI offense doesn't necessarily mean that his assault sentence will be any different. I posted a quote a couple of pages ago from the prosecutor in the assault case who claimed that they weren't seeking anything specific or substantial--especially when you factor in his sentencing score (which was very low).

The judge may let him know in so many ways that she didn't take kindly to his getting into police involvement with a potential DUI by adding another month or so to his sentence, but I don't think it's going to be anything quite that bad myself. In the end Dennard should be able to play in at least 12/16 games this year assuming health. The other missed games may be due to a combination of either/or missing a couple weeks in jail if he is ordered to serve his time immediately, and/or the expected Goodell suspension which should only be a couple of games.

I'm just stating my opinion as opposed to the last couple of pages which were factual (about his process), so take that into account of course.

http://bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2013/08/alfonzo_dennard_delay_may_cause_pats_a_problem

 

[supafly]

This illustrates the slippery slope of Violation of Probation, that even though he has not been found guilty of the driving while impaired charge, they can still try to violate the terms of his probation because he might have done it...

Is the cart before the horse??? This is why a lot of people go to jail...

I agree Darryl, and you know very well from your experience working in the system that this is a controversial issue.

Like I was telling JMC00, 9/10 VOP cases are waited until the process has been resolved before going through with the charges for this reason alone, but there are always those rarer occurrances where the prosecution has a hard on for the defendant as Nebraska seems to have for Dennard (unless of course we're talking about serious felony cases such as sexual offenders, repeat drug offenders/dealers, physical violence charges such as aggrevated assault etc, then they usually do have them violated immediately).

I always refer to my example here in Allegheny county where I live where a judge went on maternity leave for 6 months and all of her VOP cases were made to wait in jail until she physically returned. She would not release her VOP cases to another judge except for a few rare circumstances where other factors were involved. The majority of them sat behind bars for their violations, or until their 'new' cases were resolved and they were set free due to resolution or innocence.

Here in PA we don't grant any bond whatsoever for VOP cases, and that's pretty much the standard for a lot of the country, so in theory you can actually have a much better chance at getting bonded out for robbing a bank as opposed to violating your probation. If you are one of the 1/10 cases who gets violated immediately (as we both know, usually those charges are pretty severe or you've just pissed the judge and P.O. off so badly that you almost deserve it) you are going to sit in the county jail waiting for several months until either your VOP hearing before the judge, or the resolution of your new case--whichever comes up first. Just another one of the reasons why the courts and jails are so clogged up.

Luckily for Dennard, they either don't do that in Nebraska or they simply chose not to want him arrested and placed behind bars until he saw the judge, and as we both know that could have happened in many parts of the country.

 

[ATippett56]

Luckily for Dennard, they either don't do that in Nebraska or they simply chose not to want him arrested and placed behind bars until he saw the judge, and as we both know that could have happened in many parts of the country.

Nothing like have one ex-Patriot and another current Patriot rotting in jail at the same time. Talk about an off-season to remember or better yet forget.

 

[supafly]

Nothing like have one ex-Patriot and another current Patriot rotting in jail at the same time. Talk about an off-season to remember or better yet forget.

Yeah, that's putting it mildly. Of course all of this can go away if the team starts off hot in the month of September will several "surprise" players contributing that many other casual football fans aren't aware of. Winning cures all, let's hope that's the case.