Curran on Branch's Absence

[Pats726]

It's basically irrelevant. You can't take every player who does well and pay him what he's worth while being stuck paying some players more than they're worth. The cap doesn't allow it. He's a UFA in 12 months, he can wait until then.

Totally agree..one can't keep adjusting salaries every year up or down..If the players think they might like that..maybe a point for the next CBA...BUT I doubt they'd ever wish for ANY decreases..so..moot point.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

It's basically irrelevant. You can't take every player who does well and pay him what he's worth while being stuck paying some players more than they're worth. The cap doesn't allow it. He's a UFA in 12 months, he can wait until then.

I agree. Excellent point.

 

[mgcolby]

I'm kind of torn on this one for two reasons.

1. This is the Patriots and we have grown accustom to not having hold outs. Seymour changed that and I believe that a year ago most would be blasting Branch for this. But since Seymour broke the ice and did it by not blowing up in the media or dogging the team we are a little more forgiving about it.

2. I honestly don't know why this isn't done, the only thing that I can imagine is that Branch overvalues himself. With the amount of cap space we have one would think locking up our best reciever would be a top priority especially given the current state of our WR position. Has there been an article that gives a range that Branch is seeking? I think he deserves to be paid more than 1 mil this season but if he wants more than 5-5.5 mil a year then he is overvaluing himself.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

MgColby:

Branch wants $12 million to sign and the Pats already offered $8 million. The Pats can easily get a couple more years out of him by franchising him next year at a $4 million average for these two years.

Seymour was the first player to hold out because he is our first 'star' other than Brady who is worth the big money. Branch is not worth big money, just medium-big money, and that makes his holdout a little more of a concern.

Players are gonna hold out, even Pats players. We used to have such a working class roster that not many players were in a position to complain about their salary....

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

The Pats can easily get a couple more years out of him by franchising him next year at a $4 million average for these two years.

The Franchise number for a WR is closer to $8M than $4M.

 

[mgcolby]

MgColby:

Branch wants $12 million to sign and the Pats already offered $8 million. The Pats can easily get a couple more years out of him by franchising him next year at a $4 million average for these two years.

Seymour was the first player to hold out because he is our first 'star' other than Brady who is worth the big money. Branch is not worth big money, just medium-big money, and that makes his holdout a little more of a concern.

Players are gonna hold out, even Pats players. We used to have such a working class roster that not many players were in a position to complain about their salary....

Your talking bonus money, when I said 5 - 5.5 a year I meant cap hit. I don't care what they give him in bonus money as long as the deal averages out to the 5 to 5.5 range over 4 or 5 years at the most. I don't think Branch will be a productive reciever in his 30's he is just to fragile.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Belichick fan:

To get Branch's price for two years, you add this year to next year's franchise of around $8 million and divide by two. That's in the 4.5 million range.

MgColby:

The signing bonus is the only number I have seen, sorry if it wasn't helpful!

 

[ilduce06410]

stone wall here, can't figure out why

It's basically irrelevant. You can't take every player who does well and pay him what he's worth while being stuck paying some players more than they're worth. The cap doesn't allow it. He's a UFA in 12 months, he can wait until then.

hey fan, whassup?
i brought this up in three contexts:
1. curran's not accurate when he suggests the twig has been appropriately compensated. his total payments in the rookie contract, which he has honored (the whole $2.5m - $3.6m thing), are inconsistent with the nfl's compensation environment, or even that of the patriots. branch should be paid a much higher figure. his contract should be ben done over.
2. our boy (TB) got a do-over, and sure, he deserves every nickel. faulk, brandon gorin, and fauria's contracts were REDONE to help the cap figure AND to improve the players' security and/or incentive structures. gorin's contract was ripped up and he got more compensation. so it's not that patriots have a policy of not wanting to change contracts;
3. curran's references to hypothetical considerations (e.g., "if branch weren't here in this system, with this quarterback, how good would he be?") in a real-time situation. the "would this have happened?, would he have done that?") questions really seem disingenuous.
4. if brady weren't here, in this system, with this coach, would he ever have gotten into ANY game? is that a valid point for consideration in his salary negotiation?
5. i love my patriots, but i find it interesting that you say BB/SP are "stuck paying some players more than they're worth". and some less. it looks that way to me too.
6. all these setups are BB/SP's. i think the last kraft/carroll deal was ty law's. yet today, there is salary inequity, and people on the roster who aren't worth what they're getting. does that mean (oh god), that mistakes have been made? just llike everybody else?
of course it seems like BB/SP make fewer than others.
BUT. i don't like the thought.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

To get Branch's price for two years, you add this year to next year's franchise of around $8 million and divide by two. That's in the 4.5 million range.

I get what you're saying now. But Franchising him next year still costs $8M, the fact that this year brings the average down is irrelevant as he's locked into that number unless he sits out.

 

[spacecrime]

Belichick fan:

To get Branch's price for two years, you add this year to next year's franchise of around $8 million and divide by two. That's in the 4.5 million range.

This makes no sense at all.

His price this year is what it is. He will play for that amount.

If you want ONE MORE YEAR out of him, it will cost EIGHT MILLION dollars. THere is no way around this.

If you really want to try to make franchising look good, why not spread the franchise amount over his entire 5 year contract? That would drop the crranchise cost down to under 2 mil, and then we could afford to franchise him for three or four years.

 

[Welker83]

That article is ignorant. Without branch the starting WR's are who? Reche Caldwell a #2 at best...Chad jackson? Just try to name 5 Rookie WR's that had starter type seasons...(michael Clayton,...Ummm...?) Troy brown? i'm sorry but father time isn't a #1 receiver... Childress? Mcgrew? Stone?

I'm sorry but Branch has ALL the leverage. And He's Due! The Pats FO needs to get their stuff together and stop letting their players Hit FA..or Branch will turn into another AV... a guy who was mad that they wouldn't give him a contract so as soon as he could leave he BOLTED!

Go ahead give Branch the Tag.. Pay the guy 8 million for one year instead of using that cash as his signing bonus on a long term deal.

I cant believe it...A team is way uinder the cap and they can't get their only "elite" receiver signed...

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

i brought this up in three contexts:

I agree with what you said and, despite how it may sound, I love Deion. But to get his contract done a year early, he has to give a little in total value. That's just how it works. The Patriots are in great shape to get it done, with all their cap money but if Deion wants to scrape out every dollar he needs to play it out this year because Belichick won't pay as much for a WR as some other teams will. So Deion needs to decide, does he want to :

1) Stay with the Patriots, get his big money a year early but take a little less total.

or

2) Play out his cheap contract, leave and get every dollar he can on the open market.

His choice. But he can't stay with the Patriots, get his big money a year early and get every dollar he can on the open market because that's just not going to happen.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Just try to name 5 Rookie WR's that had starter type seasons...(michael Clayton,...Ummm...?)

I'm sure I could do it if I looked at the draft histories, Anquan Boldin is another who I am sure had a big rookie year.

 

[spacecrime]

1. curran's not accurate when he suggests the twig has been appropriately compensated. his total payments in the rookie contract, which he has honored (the whole $2.5m - $3.6m thing), are inconsistent with the nfl's compensation environment, or even that of the patriots. branch should be paid a much higher figure. his contract should be ben done over.

I think the point is that the "nfl environment" you talk aobut does indeed have him paid consistently with other draft picks on thier rookie contracts. In Branch's case, he is being paid MORE than another team would have paid in that he was a consensus fourth round pick and the Patriots took him in round 2.

At any rate, the NFL environment does not allow for raising everyone's pay to what it would be in a free market because it uses multi-year contracts.

If teh NFL only had single year contracts, then sure, everyone would have his pay adjusted every year.

However, that wouldn't mean that everyone could be paid what they are now, as there is still the cap to consider. No matter how you look at it, each team gets a certain amount of money in the NFL environment. If they choose to raise the pay of some players, they can, but not to the same extent as now because you simply can't pay everyone top dollar.

 

[ilduce06410]

we're not discussing contracting policy. this is only the twig

Totally agree..one can't keep adjusting salaries every year up or down..If the players think they might like that..maybe a point for the next CBA...BUT I doubt they'd ever wish for ANY decreases..so..moot point.

of course "one" can't adjust salaries every year.
who suggested the players thought they might like that?
one could observe, with certainty, that nfl franchises routinely walk away from player contracts. do decreases get made? yes at the option of the teams. do-overs are commonplace.
last year patriots did, routinely, over 10 do-overs.

 

[mgcolby]

I'm sure I could do it if I looked at the draft histories, Anquan Boldin is another who I am sure had a big rookie year.

Terry Glenn I heard she had a 90 catch rookie season.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Terry Glenn I heard she had a 90 catch rookie season.

Forgot about her The odds aren't great on rookie WR but the good seasons are definitely out there.

 

[ilduce06410]

who said $12 million? who said $5.5m bonus? who said TC holdout?

I think the point is that the "nfl environment" you talk aobut does indeed have him paid consistently with other draft picks on thier rookie contracts. In Branch's case, he is being paid MORE than another team would have paid in that he was a consensus fourth round pick and the Patriots took him in round 2.
At any rate, the NFL environment does not allow for raising everyone's pay to what it would be in a free market because it uses multi-year contracts.
If teh NFL only had single year contracts, then sure, everyone would have his pay adjusted every year.
However, that wouldn't mean that everyone could be paid what they are now, as there is still the cap to consider. No matter how you look at it, each team gets a certain amount of money in the NFL environment. If they choose to raise the pay of some players, they can, but not to the same extent as now because you simply can't pay everyone top dollar.

if you say he's slotted correctly for a #65, i got no dispute with that. we'd still have to talk about gorin.
by every indication twig will honor that contract. even curran sez so.
you make the point. i agree. multi-year contracting is stabilizing for player compensation. but since mullti-year contracts aren't honored, by either franchise or player, stabilization is ineffectual. gene upshaw screwed the pooch on this one.
there IS always the cap to consider. patriots are underneath it right now. does that mean the twig can't/shouldn't be offered $2 million increase, 5-year contract, right now?

 

[Pats726]

I cant believe it...A team is way uinder the cap and they can't get their only "elite" receiver signed...

He isn't an elite receiver..and should not be paid like he is. He doesn't rate with Moss, TO and Chad Johnson and others. He's in the top 15; hardly elite. That being said, he should get paid a solid and fair amont with incentives...quite fair.

 

[Welker83]

Forgot about her The odds aren't great on rookie WR but the good seasons are definitely out there.

Thats my point. Rookie sensations are few and far between... Who do you have so far? Bolden, Clayton, Glenn? average it out prolly at leats 8 receivers are drafted in the first 3 rounds...since 96 then we are looking at 80 receivers and we can only name 3 off the top of our head? Those odds SUCK! and even worse is i LOVE jackson and think he'll be great... But no way can he and reche caldwell fill the void of Branch....