Curran: NO WAY Pats go into season with just Cam and Stidham

[Bourne Again Christian]

If we leave with one of Fields,Lance,Wilson, Jones, Mond, Trask, Mills, Ehlinger, Franks, Costello.
I will do what I do every draft go on eBay and other sites and buy all the memorabilia I can to support them and instantly make them in madden to be 10 times better than they are. Trask limited arm strength? Sounds like a 95 to me. Lance not used to NFL concepts or defenses better be safe and make his awareness a 85.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

I agree with the general idea that many players will take two to three years to develop. For instance the jury was totally out on Jeff Allen after year 1, but he got it together in year 2 and now he's projected to be a franchise quarterback. JE11 took a few years to find his role as a punt returner and special teamer then grew into the clutch WR we now know him to be.

The down side is you are using up a roster spot and a bunch of coaching bandwidth and related resources hoping they will develop, with no way of knowing if they ever will become a franchise level player, or a starter, or a backup, or a bust.

IMO the QB position is so important you should take many bites of many apples, keep tasting till you find one you like. The down side of that is those are some costly apples. Think of Carson Wentz, Kirk Cousins, Sam Darnold, Mitch Trubisky, etc.

I don't think BB puts the same level of value on QB as many/most do. If he did, it would have been us trading up to #3, not SF. He values the potential contribution of every resource, and spending that much draft capital on one player seems to be something he resists, unless he sees a superb value.

Curran's idea is that there is no way BB goes into the year with just Cam and Stid. That's not too high a bar to clear, just pick a fourth round guy and use him for a camp arm and you clear that bar.

I'm sure BB sees Cam for what he is, just a placeholder till he can find someone better, yet he won't over-pay for something better since the team overall talent level still needs improving. Basically Cam is the Vinny Testeverde of his era. Bill would rather tread water and improve the overall team player by player rather than pay what SF paid to move into #3 to get one key player.

I can agree with your statement besides the actions taken by the Patriots are seeing the stage for going after only a handful of players. They signed not just depth guys they signed good starters at every position on the field combined with the players coming back. This is a team who is one good QB away from playoff contention. These are the actions of a team moving up in the top 10.
We all wear different color shades but the spots I see we should address via the draft or trade.

1QB
2QB
3QB
4 D Line
5. Defensive back
6 linebacker
7 WR

my ideal draft would be to leave
With
1.Micah Parsons or Jay Owenu
2. Davis Mills or Kellen Mond
3. Josh Palmer
4. 2 defensive backs have a lot of them ranked mid round grades
5. 2 linebackers

I would double dip in the draft and pick up one of Ehlinger Costello or Franks in the 6th.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Just the fact that Stidham is still here has me somewhat optimistic that he could turn into a QB.

NKeal Harry is still here too and is a total bust. Maybe some total duds are being kept on a little too long by a coordinator who vouched for them and has egg on his face

 

[sean10mm]

Thought it was Bill who overruled everyone to take Harry?

 

[Bill Lee]

NKeal Harry is still here too and is a total bust. Maybe some total duds are being kept on a little too long by a coordinator who vouched for them and has egg on his face

Basically the threshold for cutting a player has nothing to do with where they were picked, it's about whether or not they are worth a roster spot.

It'll be interesting to see if they do get cut, if so, it means the staff agrees with the widely held point of view often expressed here.

 

[mgteich]

Basically the threshold for cutting a player has nothing to do with where they were picked, it's about whether or not they are worth a roster spot.

It'll be interesting to see if they do get cut, if so, it means the staff agrees with the widely held point of view often expressed here.

Of course it matters when a player is picked.

QUESTION 1 - PATRIOT ROOKIE YEAR
a) When has a 1st rounder failed to make the 53 or the IR?
b) When has a 2nd rounder failed to make the 53 or the IR?
c) When has a 3rd round failed to make the 53 or the IR?
d) When has a 4th rounder failed to make the 53 or the IR?
e) Who was the ONE 1st-4th round rookie cut during his rookie year?

QUESTOIN 2 - PATRIOT 2nd YEAR
a) Which 1st rounder failed to make the 53 man roster or the IR in their second year?
b) Which 2nd rounders failed to make the 53 or the IR in their second year?

OF COURSE IT MATTERS
When Belichick drafts a player in the 1st four rounds, they make the 53 or the IR? And, in addition, the 1st and 2nd and 3rd rounders are almost always given at least one more year if they are healthy.

 

[PScottman]

Of course it matters when a player is picked.

It is indeed one of many factors in roster building and the reason is simple - much higher control for the team in regards to costs against the cap versus free agents and the sliding scale of ROI over time.

 

[Bill Lee]

Of course it matters when a player is picked.

QUESTION 1 - PATRIOT ROOKIE YEAR
a) When has a 1st rounder failed to make the 53 or the IR?
b) When has a 2nd rounder failed to make the 53 or the IR?
c) When has a 3rd round failed to make the 53 or the IR?
d) When has a 4th rounder failed to make the 53 or the IR?
e) Who was the ONE 1st-4th round rookie cut during his rookie year?

QUESTOIN 2 - PATRIOT 2nd YEAR
a) Which 1st rounder failed to make the 53 man roster or the IR in their second year?
b) Which 2nd rounders failed to make the 53 or the IR in their second year?

OF COURSE IT MATTERS
When Belichick drafts a player in the 1st four rounds, they make the 53 or the IR? And, in addition, the 1st and 2nd and 3rd rounders are almost always given at least one more year if they are healthy.

Being a first rounder didn't save Dominique Easley from being cut two years into his four year rookie contract then playing 16 games for the Rams in year three.

Draft position doesn't matter when players are being cut, current production and future development potential does.

Usually they correlate well, some times they don't.

If you are looking at draft position as the prime determinant, IMO you are looking at it the wrong way.

Here's a direct quote from BB:

Ultimately, it doesn't really matter what round you take the player in. Once he walks in the door, he's a New England Patriot player. He puts on the uniform and goes out there and competes. It doesn't matter if he's in the second round or fifth round. That doesn't matter once he's on your team. So, whatever his positives and negatives are, whatever he brings to the table, whatever weaknesses you think he might have or all the other things you brought up, whatever those things are or aren't, they're the same no matter where that individual player gets selected.

Transcript: Bill Belichick Press Conference 4/15

Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick addresses the media via video conference on Thursday, April 15, 2021.

www.patriots.com

 

[amfootball]

Thought it was Bill who overruled everyone to take Harry?

Yes it was. An unbelievably horrible pick.

 

[Kdo5]

NFW I'm giving away 96 AND our 2022 1st for EITHER Lance OR ESPECIALLY Fields.

If they think one of those guys is the real deal and a franchise QB you pull the trigger. We need a legit QB of the future more than anything. I have no clue if BB or the scouts feel that way about any of those QBs but if they do it’s a no brainer to surrender 96 which may well be a bust and next years first which could be a lower end pick anyhow.

 

[sean10mm]

Yeah, the wishy-washy sounding but true answer is if you believe your future QB is within reach, you have to be willing to pay (almost) anything to get them. Don't get cute and risk somebody leapfrogging you to try to save a 3rd rounder or some crap.

Conversely, if you don't like any of the available prospects when you pick you have to pass on QB there and move on to the next pick.

I have no pretense of being able to scout NFL QBs, but with how many QBs bust in the NFL most of the GMs can't do it either. Hopefully Belichick's QB scouting is better than his WR scouting.

 

[sb1]

Next years first which could be a lower end pick anyhow.

Right now I’m not so sure it will be to be honest. We’re better, but so are other teams and it remains to be seen how much better we really are especially with a lot of uncertainty at the most important position on the field.

 

[Nehalem]

Yeah, the wishy-washy sounding but true answer is if you believe your future QB is within reach, you have to be willing to pay (almost) anything to get them. Don't get cute and risk somebody leapfrogging you to try to save a 3rd rounder or some crap.

Conversely, if you don't like any of the available prospects when you pick you have to pass on QB there and move on to the next pick.

I have no pretense of being able to scout NFL QBs, but with how many QBs bust in the NFL most of the GMs can't do it either. Hopefully Belichick's QB scouting is better than his WR scouting.

6/7 of the last 7 SBs have featured a QB drafted by BB

and 7/7 have featured a QB that has started for BB

 

[Bill Lee]

Thought it was Bill who overruled everyone to take Harry?

Albert Breer quoted unnamed sources who said so.

Since it fits a lot of narratives, some accept it without question.

 

[sean10mm]

Albert Breer quoted unnamed sources who said so.

Since it fits a lot of narratives, some accept it without question.

I mean, the alternative that BB can't tell his WR scouting staff stinks for pushing Harry isn't a lot better than him overriding good scouting who said Harry stinks. It's 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

 

[Bill Lee]

I mean, the alternative that BB can't tell his WR scouting staff stinks for pushing Harry isn't a lot better than him overriding good scouting who said Harry stinks. It's 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

You act as if drafting is an exact science, and if a player disappoints then someone "stinks".

 

[sean10mm]

You act as if drafting is an exact science, and if a player disappoints then someone "stinks".

I mean Harry isn't the only WR whiff Belichick has had, there's a long history of botched picks at that position.

And failed FA and trade moves for WRs that crapped out.

The team didn't end up with no good WR or TE in 2020 because... they were doing a good job there lately.

Also I use "I mean" as a figure of speech too much here

 

[Bill Lee]

I mean Harry isn't the only WR whiff Belichick has had, there's a long history of botched picks at that position.

And failed FA and trade moves for WRs that crapped out.

The team didn't end up with no good WR or TE in 2020 because... they were doing a good job there lately.

Also I use "I mean" as a figure of speech too much here

No one is good at everything.

PIT has drafted a lot of impressive WRs but it hasn't translated into SB wins or appearances.

Almost 50% of first round selections do not sign second contracts with their teams.

If Harry makes it to the end of his rookie contract with us, he'll be average.

I think we'll learn a lot by seeing if he's on this season's Week 1 roster or not.

If so, the staff thinks he is currently at WR4 or above level with potential for further development.

If not, they agree with you, he's a bust, time to move on.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Yes it was. An unbelievably horrible pick.

let’s hope bb does see any tape on Bateman of Minnesota. He and Harry play the exact same way!