Curran: Losing caserio might be a bigger loss if it happens.

[SVN]

Curran: Caserio the best GM for any open job, but he'd better not leave

 

[farn]

I'd rather keep Caserio - I think overall player acquisition has been better since he's been GM vs the last few years under Pioli.

 

[rookBoston]

Yeah, that would suck. It took BB a while to replace Pioli and get the scouting and talent evaluation back to that level. And it's to the point, now, where I think Caserio has been doing a better job that Pioli did. Finding guys like Lengel and Van Noy and Rowe, all contributing during crunch time, is pretty special. Caserio needs to get credit for sourcing guys like Dion Lewis, Martellus Bennett, Joe Thuney, Trey Flowers, Chris Long and Michael Floyd too.

 

[Deus Irae]

Related to the O.P, though not the end all/be all:

Draft picks from the first two rounds in the last 5 drafts:

Cyrus Jones
Malcolm Brown
Jordan Richards
Dominique Easley
JAG
Jamie Collins
Aaron Dobson
Chandler Jones
Dont'a Hightower
Tavon Wilson


That's quite underwhelming. It would be interesting to know who's generally made the final call on those (by which I mean that I wonder which have been picks where BB went against Caserio's/scouts' suggestion).

 

[ausbacker]

Related to the O.P, though not the end all/be all:

Draft picks from the first two rounds in the last 5 drafts:

Cyrus Jones
Malcolm Brown
Jordan Richards
Dominique Easley
JAG
Jamie Collins
Aaron Dobson
Chandler Jones
Dont'a Hightower
Tavon Wilson


That's quite underwhelming. It would be interesting to know who's generally made the final call on those (by which I mean that I wonder which have been picks where BB went against Caserio's/scouts' suggestion).

Respectfully, I disagree. The draft is a crapshoot & despite whatever our feelings about certain players, Brown, JAG (let's not forget, he helped get the Patriots through four Brady-less games & secure the #1 seed), and Hightower are IMO, excellent picks. Cyrus Jones is yet to be determined and the Patriots got a decent return from Collins and Jones. That sprinkles in a few busts, which I expect sits somewhere comfortably in the range of expected hits and misses.

The Pats take gambles on guys because of their perceived ceiling. Some times it works, others it doesn't. I'm not going to cry over spilt milk because as the article mentions (as do you), there are other avenues to build your team.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Related to the O.P, though not the end all/be all:

Draft picks from the first two rounds in the last 5 drafts:

Cyrus Jones
Malcolm Brown
Jordan Richards
Dominique Easley
JAG
Jamie Collins
Aaron Dobson
Chandler Jones
Dont'a Hightower
Tavon Wilson


That's quite underwhelming. It would be interesting to know who's generally made the final call on those (by which I mean that I wonder which have been picks where BB went against Caserio's/scouts' suggestion).

Cherrypicking, they have made hundreds of moves over the past five years and have repeatedly upgraded the team in season with really smart trades.Caserio has done a great job and the Patriots should open their wallet and o try and keep him here.

 

[Deus Irae]

Respectfully, I disagree. The draft is a crapshoot & despite whatever our feelings about certain players, Brown, JAG (let's not forget, he helped get the Patriots through four Brady-less games & secure the #1 seed), and Hightower are IMO, excellent picks. Cyrus Jones is yet to be determined and the Patriots got a decent return from Collins and Jones. That sprinkles in a few busts, which I expect sits somewhere comfortably in the range of expected hits and misses.

The Pats take gambles on guys because of their perceived ceiling. Some times it works, others it doesn't. I'm not going to cry over spilt milk because as the article mentions (as do you), there are other avenues to build your team.

There's not really anything to disagree with. We've seen the team have down periods in the draft before (2006-2009), and we'll see them again in the future. It's the nature of the business.

The group I pointed to is an obviously underwhelming group, and I was just curious, in light of Curran's piece, as to who's been making the calls at the top of the draft. The team's clearly had some big hits elsewhere (Bennett trade, Butler UDFA, etc...), and I wasn't looking for a bash fest.

 

[ScottishPatriots]

Money might not even matter if you give him a raise, he might just want to run his own team now and get the credit when it goes well, no matter what he does here people will always give Bill the credit.

 

[bruce_w]

He has done a great job especially at finding players off of other rosters to fill in season needs. Those moves were huge in 2014 (Akeem Ayers,Casillas). I think he would be crazy to leave though. I don't even know why he would want to.

 

[ausbacker]

There's not really anything to disagree with. We've seen the team have down periods in the draft before (2006-2009), and we'll see them again in the future. It's the nature of the business.

The group I pointed to is an obviously underwhelming group, and I was just curious, in light of Curran's piece, as to who's been making the calls at the top of the draft. The team's clearly had some big hits elsewhere (Bennett trade, Butler UDFA, etc...), and I wasn't looking for a bash fest.

I disagree that it's an underwhelming group. There's a Second-team All Pro and two Pro Bowlers in that group. It's also far too early to make calls on Jones and Brown.

 

[sportnik]

As usual, Curran is spot on. Retaining Caserio will have a bigger impact on the future of the franchise than anything else that happens this offseason, including the pending QB decision.

Caserio's track record has been exceptional. I challenge anyone who is critical of his drafts to go on profootball reference.com and find a team that has consistently drafted better since Caserio took over in 2009. Here's a link to Seattle's draft history, for example: Seattle Seahawks All-Time Draft History | Pro-Football-Reference.com. Franchise altering drafts from 2010 to 2012 & not much since.

The reality is that if you find two solid starters per draft, you've had a good draft. If you find 3, you've had a great draft. If you string a few great drafts together, like Seattle did from 10 to 12 & like the Pats did from 94 to 96, you're probably going to win a Superbowl.

The point is that it's easy to criticize anyone's draft record because every team makes bad picks every year. But you only need to hit on 2 or 3 picks a year to be well ahead of the game.

 

[Deus Irae]

I disagree that it's an underwhelming group. There's a Second-team All Pro and two Pro Bowlers in that group. It's also far too early to make calls on Jones and Brown.

Easley
Collins
Dobson
Jones

None of the above even finished out their first contract. That's not even getting to the likes of Tavon Wilson.

That's a clearly underwhelming group. It's beyond question. They've actually had better success in rounds 3 and 4 during that stretch of time, which is an impressive counterbalance.

 

[ausbacker]

Easley
Collins
Dobson
Jones

None of the above even finished out their first contract. That's not even getting to the likes of Tavon Wilson.

That's a clearly underwhelming group. It's beyond question. They've actually had better success in rounds 3 and 4 during that stretch of time, which is an impressive counterbalance.

No, it's not beyond question Deus. You're suffering confirmation bias, your opinion is open for discussion.

I provided you with 3 credentialed players and 2 players whose contributions are currently in the yet to be determined phase. Hell, most of the board knew the risk vs. reward pick Easley was. Dobson was a flat out bust as probably Wilson and Richards (which most people questioned at the time). If Brown continues to develop and Jones becomes a star, what then?

The Patriots have taken back draft capital for some of those players and others were simply released. Just because you deem it underwhelming doesn't necessarily make it true.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think Caserio does a good job but to think the whole personnel apparatus will turn to s__t is wrong.

BBs system is in place. If he leaves, he leaves.

The sun will rise. The sun will set and I will have lunch

 

[amazinPats]

My view is that the BB/Caserio team are no better than average in the first two rounds but score heavily in the later rounds of the draft. Where they especially shine is picking up JAG free agents during the course of the season and turning them into productive players. Then their management of the salary cap and ability to pick up compensatory picks for their 1 year pickups is masterful. They are also, I suspect, superior when it comes to finding productive undrafted free agents. But however you label their approach, it doesn't seem to be as effective when it comes to the first two rounds of the draft.

 

[ALP]

My view is that the BB/Caserio team are no better than average in the first two rounds but score heavily in the later rounds of the draft. Where they especially shine is picking up JAG free agents during the course of the season and turning them into productive players. Then their management of the salary cap and ability to pick up compensatory picks for their 1 year pickups is masterful. They are also, I suspect, superior when it comes to finding productive undrafted free agents. But however you label their approach, it doesn't seem to be as effective when it comes to the first two rounds of the draft.

Maybe other teams put in the time and effort in the begging 2 rounds of the draft so a lot of guys we like are gone, but those teams dont put as much diligence in later rounds/ in season pickups where in our case we take same mentality all the way through

 

[mihap]

Curran: Caserio the best GM for any open job, but he'd better not leave

IIRC he has contract till 2020

 

[luuked]

Easley
Collins
Dobson
Jones

None of the above even finished out their first contract. That's not even getting to the likes of Tavon Wilson.

That's a clearly underwhelming group. It's beyond question. They've actually had better success in rounds 3 and 4 during that stretch of time, which is an impressive counterbalance.

I should know better than to reply to your semantic games but here goes nothing..

Jones and Collins priced themselves out of the range the front office was comfortable given their contributions and were moved out for compensation. Both of them are good/great players but not for the money they expect to receive. So, yes, they didn't finish their first contracts here but the situation is different from the other two busts you mentioned.

Dobson was a bust that never got over the time he lost when he sustained the foot injury at the end of his rookie season (+ surgery on the foot in the offseason). And Easley was a high risk/high reward pick that just didn't work out for medical and personal reasons.

I don't care if you try to hide behind the literal meaning of "finish off contract", putting those 4 players together is pretty misleading..

 

[Kontradiction]

Related to the O.P, though not the end all/be all:

Draft picks from the first two rounds in the last 5 drafts:

Cyrus Jones
Malcolm Brown
Jordan Richards
Dominique Easley
JAG
Jamie Collins
Aaron Dobson
Chandler Jones
Dont'a Hightower
Tavon Wilson


That's quite underwhelming. It would be interesting to know who's generally made the final call on those (by which I mean that I wonder which have been picks where BB went against Caserio's/scouts' suggestion).

I'd like to know what level of input Lombardi had on most of them.

 

[DarrylS]

When Pioli left the Pundits all told us we would be doomed.

When Bob Quinn and Thomas Dimitroff left they told us we would be doomed also.

I have complete confidence that they will survive..

The draft is a crap shoot, every team has hits and misses in the top two rounds.. great college players do not always make great NFL players.