connor barwin....defensive POM

[IllegalContact]

Believe it or not, the Pats used a LOT of 4 d-linemen looks in previous years, just mostly on nickel and dime, passing down situations. With the lack of OTA's and a lot of younger players, it made sense to homogenize the defense so that the base D more closely matched the sub packages, thus cutting down on the learning curve. But don't let facts get in the way of your rage. It's probably just because BB and the Pats are incompetent.

oh, come on.....just because vrabel put his hand down from time to time, don't call him a D-lineman....I've even seen a few plays where rodney harrison put his hand down....is he a D-lineman?

 

[fnordcircle]

oh, come on.....just because vrabel put his hand down from time to time, don't call him a D-lineman....I've even seen a few plays where rodney harrison put his hand down....is he a D-lineman?

Vrabel started out as DL and played that role on several snaps for us.

Watching the actual football games might be beneficial to you.

 

[Patjew]

LOL.........thank you

I'd call it a compliment from you except that once again, your post is void of any substance......well, except for calling me a name.....

That's just what you seem like. You're probably pretty neat in real life.

 

[Darolyn72]

So who will remain unnamed couldn't tell you a two gap from a Gap Kids.

1) stop talking about other teams misses
2) stop bringing up systems and scheme, its a fanboy spin

There are people on this messageboard that would tell you Patrick Willis and Darrelle Revis couldn't play in the Pats system. They are that diluted.

The 2009 draft was a failure, not an epic failure but a failure. Imagine Vontae or Clay on this defense instead of Brace or Chung. The Pats had the #23 pick. By the time Barwin went these very good players had been drafted.
Belichick missed on ALL of them.

Michael Oher
Vontae Davis
Clay Matthews
Hakeem Nicks
Kenny Britt
Ziggy Hood
James Laurinaitis
Rey Maulaluga
Jarius Byrd
Everett Brown
Connor Barwin

Now there were busts in there too. But the Pats started with 3 picks ended up with 4. You would hope for one impact DEFENSIVE player and a Vollmer.

Vollmer solid till this season, Brace bust, Butler bust, and Chung is ok, sorry he's just ok and he's always hurt too. And don't give me the Gronk in 2010 crap, because if they really wanted him they could have targeted in another way and got him on the team.

Parcells saw Vontae for what he was and is a good solid corner on a bad team. We could have used him or any of the linebackers/ends. Also, since we can't develop a wide out and instead had to trade a 5th plus 6 mill for Ocho, Nicks or Britt would have been solid too.

There is no discussion, the Pats traded back and still missed. It started as a promising draft and has turned into a bad one. Bill's misses the last 4 years have been pretty much all on defense. He's hit on offense. He's a defensive coach, he should be better at drafting defensive players. That's why they are starting so many cast offs this year. Discussion OVER.

 

[Rob0729]

what's this OLB gap responsibility that you speak of?

They control the gap outside the tackle. He is responsible for either double team the tackle or tying up the TE. Not rocket science.

 

[Snake Eyes]

So sick of these posts.

Just because someone excels in another system does not mean he will excel in ours.

1 - Just because they havent played in our system doesnt mean that wouldn't have been successful in it

2 - We know that Butler was garbage and Brace has been nearly worthless until he proves otherwise. I'd say that makes Barwin a better risk now, and I wanted to draft him.

Until you know the answer to these questions I think you should throttle back the self-righteous BS about who we did or did not draft.

Child please, teams screw those very things up all the time. You're not a real fan unless you think you can manage/coach the team better than the managers and coaches.

 

[patfanken]

yeeeahhhh.....the system srgument......LMFAO.......what's the system now?

You know IC, you really are a ****. Its one thing to comment in a draft thread about Connor Barwin's apparent success. Its not like you were the only one who liked him coming out. There were a lot of Connor Barwin fans. That discounts the fact that Sacks alone do not make a successfull player....anywhere, let alone with the Pats. If that were true then garbage time Aaron Maybin would be in the running for defensive player of the year

Here's a news flash for you. There are lots of good players that are picked in the draft that DON'T go to the New England Patriots. Connor Barwin MAY be one of them. So what.

Here's another flash- some of the picks BB makes don't work out. But in the interest of puffing up your own insipid self importance, you couldn't wait to start a thread, to tell us "I told you so". Just like an 8 year old on the playground. Of course you'd also take credit for the good picks too. Lrolleyes:

BTW- Where were are your other Connor Barwin threads over the last 3 seasons. You know after all the "other" games he DIDN'T have 4 sacks? Where was one even earlier this year. No, like the insufferable blowhard that you are, you wait until Barwin has a career day against easy pickings before you start a thread to pump up your vastly undeserved inflated ego.

Damned, now you have me wondering how the Pats can possibly get to be were the Texans finally are. I know, after your "insightful" post, every one here is considering all the ways the Pats can be more like the Texans

 

[Sicilian]

oh, come on.....just because vrabel put his hand down from time to time, don't call him a D-lineman....I've even seen a few plays where rodney harrison put his hand down....is he a D-lineman?

Yes, for THAT PLAY, if he is lined up and has the responsibilities of a DL, he is now a DL for THAT PLAY.

 

[Sicilian]

Damned, now you have me wondering how the Pats can possibly get to be were the Texans finally are. I know, after your "insightful" post, every one here is considering all the ways the Pats can be more like the Texans

I know, if only WE could be 8-3 and leading our division... oh well.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

I know, if only WE could be 8-3 and leading our division... oh well.

Or win multiple SB's like the Texans have....

 

[IllegalContact]

More sacks, less points given up and better on 3rd down.

There's 3 and 2 are the most important thing a defense can do other than generating turnovers.

less points? are you sure? more sacks? again, are you sure?

I know turnovers are down.......

 

[Clonamery]

Hey, let's all point out everyone else's possible mistakes over the past couple years that absolutely nothing can be done about now. Sounds like a great way to go through life.

Can you reach thru your PC and physically slap him silly too?

 

[fnordcircle]

2) stop bringing up systems and scheme, its a fanboy spin

I'm a fanboy because there are numerous examples - league wide - of players, through the years, who excelled in one system but not another?

Your grasp of how intricate and diverse NFL systems are is really shallow if you cannot see how physical and mental skills and/or tools make different players a better fit to different schemes - both on the line and in the defensive backfield.

There are people on this messageboard that would tell you Patrick Willis and Darrelle Revis couldn't play in the Pats system. They are that diluted.

I think it's plausible to suggest that they would not have excelled in this system - yes. Do the Patriots miss on draft picks and FAs? Yes, absolutely.

But I do think that it is incredibly presumptuous and more than a tad ******ed for people to actually suggest that because they watched an ESPN draft show and read Dr. Z one time they know better who would fit our team than the people we have in charge of our draft who have done it for years and have actually sat down with players and run them through the various mental and physical exercises BB and crew give them.

Are BB and our scouting/personnel departments free of criticism? Are they perfect? No.

But I think it is beyond facile to go 'HE DID GOOD OVER THERE SO WE ****ED UP BY NOT DRAFTING HIM.'

Because - again - look at players who bombed when drafted at certain places who went on to excel other places and vice versa. Drew Brees was ran out of SD, now he's a consensus top 3 QB.

Discussion OVER.

Heh.

 

[cavtroop]

it's posters like IllegalContact that REALLy make this forum a chore to go through some days.

I dont mind negative posts. just back it up with some shred of intelligence, and not just name calling, innuendo and douchebaggery.

Welcome to the ignore list, maybe someday soon they'll ban you to the practice squad.

 

[Darolyn72]

I was joking about Willis and Revis, if you really believe that you shouldn't watch sports and need to consult a doctor, because you've lost brain matter.

 

[patfanken]

So who will remain unnamed couldn't tell you a two gap from a Gap Kids.

1) stop talking about other teams misses
2) stop bringing up systems and scheme, its a fanboy spin

There are people on this messageboard that would tell you Patrick Willis and Darrelle Revis couldn't play in the Pats system. They are that diluted.

The 2009 draft was a failure, not an epic failure but a failure. Imagine Vontae or Clay on this defense instead of Brace or Chung. The Pats had the #23 pick. By the time Barwin went these very good players had been drafted.
Belichick missed on ALL of them.

Michael Oher
Vontae Davis
Clay Matthews
Hakeem Nicks
Kenny Britt
Ziggy Hood
James Laurinaitis
Rey Maulaluga
Jarius Byrd
Everett Brown
Connor Barwin

Now there were busts in there too. But the Pats started with 3 picks ended up with 4. You would hope for one impact DEFENSIVE player and a Vollmer.

Vollmer solid till this season, Brace bust, Butler bust, and Chung is ok, sorry he's just ok and he's always hurt too. And don't give me the Gronk in 2010 crap, because if they really wanted him they could have targeted in another way and got him on the team.

Parcells saw Vontae for what he was and is a good solid corner on a bad team. We could have used him or any of the linebackers/ends. Also, since we can't develop a wide out and instead had to trade a 5th plus 6 mill for Ocho, Nicks or Britt would have been solid too.

There is no discussion, the Pats traded back and still missed. It started as a promising draft and has turned into a bad one. Bill's misses the last 4 years have been pretty much all on defense. He's hit on offense. He's a defensive coach, he should be better at drafting defensive players. That's why they are starting so many cast offs this year. Discussion OVER.

Take a lesson IC. THIS is an example of a well thought out criticism of the draft. Its full of information, NOT self aggrandizement

The only thing I'd question you on D, is your assumption that BB is strictly a defensive coach. FYI, after **** Reibein died, Tom Brady's QB coach for the next 2 years was Bill Bellichick. While its common wisdom to think of BB as JUST a defensive coach. BB knows offense too.

 

[IllegalContact]

it's posters like IllegalContact that REALLy make this forum a chore to go through some days.

I dont mind negative posts. just back it up with some shred of intelligence, and not just name calling, innuendo and douchebaggery.

Welcome to the ignore list, maybe someday soon they'll ban you to the practice squad.

ok......buh bye

 

[Mountain_Commando]

I finally get to pop my ignore list's cherry, yay!

 

[Sicilian]

less points? are you sure? more sacks? again, are you sure?

I know turnovers are down.......

Through the first 11 games last year, we were allowing 24 points per game. Through the first 11 this year, 20. So yes.

Sacks are actually on pace for the exact same number, 36, but based on the eye test I'm guessing we're getting more QB pressures total, as evidenced by a better 3rd down defense (especially considering through 11 games last year it was much higher than it finished).

BB teams get better defensively as the season goes.

 

[IllegalContact]

Take a lesson IC. THIS is an example of a well thought out criticism of the draft. Its full of information, NOT self aggrandizement

The only thing I'd question you on D, is your assumption that BB is strictly a defensive coach. FYI, after **** Reibein died, Tom Brady's QB coach for the next 2 years was Bill Bellichick. While its common wisdom to think of BB as JUST a defensive coach. BB knows offense too.

oh....ok

that changes everything.........the entire situation has reversed itself.....did he change your mind?

I know the examples I provided replaced defensive guys......