Combine observations, stats, and discussion (DB)

[ctpatsfan77]

"Overshare Violation"?

As in "TMI."

 

[Off The Grid]

The name you're looking for, Lady + Gentlemen...is Curtis Marsh.

Ryan Jones

Josh Thomas

And, yes: please add Brother Buster Skrine.

These are all happy thoughts.

 

[Off The Grid]

As in "TMI."

Thank you, Brother Conn.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Wow!!! Great great great info Don Kipines, Box_O_Rocks, and patchick!! Mocking the Pats draft will be difficult. A lot of stuff to take into account, that makes it more fun though!!

I saw Box_O_Rocks say you guys could used depth at QB. Do you think Bill will be using Brian Hoyer as trade bait pretty soon?

And what kind of RB's do Bilichick like? (Scat back, Down hill runner, etc) Also, Is Faulk coming back or do you think his days are numbered in NE?

Hoyer is likely available, but his price would probably be steeper than most teams would consider reasonable at this point in his career. Depth serves multiple functions, "camp arm" to help pace Brady and Hoyer, competition to prevent Hoyer from complacency, finding that diamond in the rough (Cassel) and seeing how he handles the greater complexity of an NFL offense and reading NFL defenses, finally, grooming late round QBs into viable NFL journeymen and starters is a Belichick goal he learned from Coach Walsh and his coaching tree.

Belichick likes RBs who make yards, he likes to have some variety in his backs, and he wants them to learn to excel at running, receiving, blitz pick-up, lead blocking, and Special Teams as returner/coverage/blocker (the more the merrier). If a RB can split wide and create a mismatch against a LB, if they can pick-up short yardage first downs (and will go for the first down instead of scrambling around trying to break a big play), if the play is designed to go inside you look to run inside first and only bounce it outside when there's no room to run, if there's only two yards available, get those two yards. Vision, he wants great field vision. Fumbles - DON'T! Kevin Faulk struggled early in his career, but he was a holdover from the previous GM who worked hard at getting better. BenJarvus Green-Ellis is not a fumbler. Danny Woodhead had one fumble last season when he took a shot to the head from a DL. This is the Belichick standard.

I'd love to see Kevin Faulk coming back, but at this point in his rehab it's uncertain. Don't rule it out, but draft as if he might not be back.

As to the downhill/scatback runner question: NE uses a blend of man and zone blocking. They want a one cut and go runner who can see the backside lane or a zone crease open and be gone, they want a very disciplined runner who understands down & distance and runs accordingly. The runner needs to know his blockers like the back of his hand and time himself to their efforts.

Remember, NE morphs their game to create mismatches with their opponent. If Pittsburgh's defense is strong against the run, NE will create a mismatch in the passing game to move the ball and soften them up for the run game. If Green Bay is a demon in passing defense, NE will try to run them out of it. A RB who can do it all (Kevin Faulk) will have a long career with NE.

 

[BornNraisedWhoDat]

Great info bro. Not just for mock draft purposes, but as a fan of football (and Ol' Bill) very interesting.

So how long do you guys think you can ride with Tom Brady. Seems like he is still in his prime. He's what....33/34. I figure he's got 4-6 good years left in him.

What do guys think of WR Edmond Gates? He was the kid with sissy white tights on at the combine. He could be a nice vertical threat, no sure if he is a Patriots type of guy or not. But you could probably snatch him with a 3rd.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Great info bro. Not just for mock draft purposes, but as a fan of football (and Ol' Bill) very interesting.

So how long do you guys think you can ride with Tom Brady. Seems like he is still in his prime. He's what....33/34. I figure he's got 4-6 good years left in him.

What do guys think of WR Edmond Gates? He was the kid with sissy white tights on at the combine. He could be a nice vertical threat, no sure if he is a Patriots type of guy or not. But you could probably snatch him with a 3rd.

I've read two differing evaluations of Gates so I'm unsure, but a safe rule of thumb is to consider small school kids only if they totally dominated their level, have prototypical physical builds for their position(s), are versatile, and if they are projected to the later rounds.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Whoops, forgot Brady ... easy to do with his low profile. He states he wants to play until he's 40, as long as he stays healthy he'll probably make it.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Howdy WhoDat!Bill Belichick has a number of goals when drafting:
-- Make the "team" better. He wants bigger, faster, stronger, quicker, more explosive, smarter, disciplined, harder working, high football IQ players at each position. Mobile, agile, hostile, quick twitch Field Generals at each position, team captain a plus.

All great point so I can add little here. As a minor aside I should not that there has also been an emphasis on toughness after the Wheatley disaster. Toughness and avoidance of injuries will become even more important if there is an 18 game season. [Youth will also become more important with a longer season.]

The way BB drafts is like this: He does most of his pre-draft preparation targeting specific needs and does not do research on all the available players like some teams do. On draft day(s) BB goes into draft process with a list of need areas and the ratings of each player in the need area. Notice that I used plural; he does not have the myopic tunnel vision that us draftnics have (.e.g. we all thought he had to take a pass rusher with the first pick last year)

When it is the Patriots turn to pick BB looks at the value of the available players in his need areas; i.e. he can go in a variety of ways. So last year he went in with need areas for the DL LB CB and TE and he was planning to use the first 4-5 picks in those areas in no particular order. He let's the value decide the order.

When it was the Patriots turn to pick in the first round last year BB saw that he could trade down and still get value in a need area. When the Patriots finally picked they noted that McCourty was a huge value pick compared to available pass rushers and TEs so BB pulled the trigger before someone else nabbed McCourty. [And McCourty became the 2-3'd best pick of the BB era (after Brady and tied with Seymour).]

The Patriots also look at other teams near them and try to project their picks. They did that last year when they anticipated that Baltimore was after Gronk and moved up and got him.

 

[VJCPatriot]

- What are some of the Patriot's tendencies when drafting players? Are they a Best Player available type of team, do they draft for needs, are they aggressive as far as trading up for a player they want, do they usually go defense in the 1st round?

Best player who fits their system. When need meets talent that's usually the ideal scenario. I think defense early is going to be a safe bet this year.

- What are some of the needs the Patriots have? Some people have you guys getting an RB, but I just dont see it. Is Green-Ellis not performing up to par?

DE, OLB, OL are the primary needs. But OLB rarely gets addressed early. Cunningham is the earliest BB has drafted an OLB to date.

- Would Belichick ever take a WR in the 1st round?

Very unlikely. He subscribes to there are very few 300 lbs athletes theory.

Thanks guys, I'll check back later, hopefully you guys can help me answer some of these questions.

Are you the Pats GM for this mock?

I think the Pats will also look at a slot corner/free safety prospect in the middle rounds.

So Skrine is a riser huh.
Was Burney even invited?
I remember him looking like a fit at the Senior Bowl.

 

[BornNraisedWhoDat]

Best player who fits their system. When need meets talent that's usually the ideal scenario. I think defense early is going to be a safe bet this year.



DE, OLB, OL are the primary needs. But OLB rarely gets addressed early. Cunningham is the earliest BB has drafted an OLB to date.



Very unlikely. He subscribes to there are very few 300 lbs athletes theory.



Are you the Pats GM for this mock?

I think the Pats will also look at a slot corner/free safety prospect in the middle rounds.

So Skrine is a riser huh.
Was Burney even invited?
I remember him looking like a fit at the Senior Bowl.

Thanks for the info. No Im not a GM. This is just something I usually do yearly on saintsreport.com.

I will post it once Im done. I'll be working hard on it this week.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Exactly. Same build as Terrence Wheatley.

Al Davis takes him [DeMarcus Van Dyke] in the second. I am taking bets on this...

Ha! Oakland took him in the third....

 

[captain stone]

IMO the best fit for the Pats profile this year is Brandon Harris. Later possibilities include Buster Skrine, and Ras-I Dowling or Cortez Allen as CB/S tweeners.

Seems that others in another thread don't share your opinion of Brandon Harris.

 

[captain stone]

Ha! Oakland took him in the third....

Good call, Fred. Looks like Oaksterdam is reverting to the Speed Uber Alles theory.

 

[patchick]

Seems that others in another thread don't share your opinion of Brandon Harris.

Honestly, by the time the draft actually happened (almost 2 months later), neither did I. The 2 db's on my draft contest list were Ras-I Dowling and Buster Skrine.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Seems that others in another thread don't share your opinion of Brandon Harris.

Actually the Brandon Harris issue is an interesting one since he was taken at 60 (late second round). The Patriots could have taken him but traded the pick to Houston for Houston's third- (#73) and fifth-round (#138). The Patriots then used those picks for Stevan Ridley and Marcus Cannon. Only time will tell if Harris was worth it. If he proves to be as good as Ras-I then the Patriots could have use the Ras-I pick on Jabaal Sheard or Akeem Ayers or even Bruce Carter and still got another CB. Ugh. We shall see but I have a lot of doubts about this draft.

 

[Sciz]

Jabaal Sheard or Akeem Ayers or even Bruce Carter

A pure 4-3 DE and two pure 4-3 OLBs?

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

A pure 4-3 DE and two pure 4-3 OLBs?

BB is not so rigid that he cannot adopt his schemes for a superior pass rusher...or is he?

 

[Sciz]

BB is not so rigid that he cannot adopt his schemes for a superior pass rusher...or is he?

Well the first has no ability to drop into coverage, the second has no ability to play the run and little ability to rush the passer, and the final has no ability to play the run or rush the passer...

 

[WaterfallJumper]

BB is not so rigid that he cannot adopt his schemes for a superior pass rusher...or is he?

Except none of those players are even close to "superior" pass rushers.

 

[captain stone]

Sheard & Brooks Reed & Justin Houston & Sam Acho are, however,
superior to anybody we have.