College Football Star Michael Sam Says He Is Gay; May Become First Publicly G...

[upstater1]

Hey guys, people in the Bible sinned too. Lot, Lot's daughters, Moses, King David, Paul etc. Jesus was the only one without sin.

So, why point to Lot and the Angels then as an example of God being against homosexuality?

 

[Patsrock]

I just sinned twice tonight

 

[Christiancat]

I find it interesting that those intolerant of homosexuality always seem to gravitate to religion and to the bible, when they get backed into a corner.

Do you realize, as far as the new testament, Jesus never spoke about homosexuality, only Paul did, and even then, the word he used, arsenokoit?s, means something completely different when you understand that the bible he and others used was in fact, the Septuagint, which is the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament? In that context, arsenokoit?s means pederasty, which we today identify as pedophilia.

Also no Christian in this thread is condemning anyone to hell. Those Christians in this thread talking about hell are explaining to you their interpretation of what the bible says about certain acts, hell, and how some are condemned to hell for those acts. The bible states this stuff. Christians didn't come up with this and Christians in this thread are NOT trying to condemn anyone to hell. What or who the bible condemns to hell is what or who the bible condemns to hell.

I want to add that this post of your is a double standard.

What do I mean?

You say that when those who are intolerant of homosexuality gravitate towards religion and the bible when backed into a corner.

Well the same could be said of some of those who are atheists or against Jesus and his followers. Some of the atheists when backed in to a corner are ready to gravitate to saying certain priests molested children or how they know of some Christians who watch gay porn or do other bad things.

Some people who claim to be Christians, Catholics etc. don't live according to God's word. No one is saying that every person that claims to be a Christian, Catholics etc truly lives their life for God. However, many Christians, Catholics etc. truly try to live their lives to God's standards. Those who claim to be followers of Christ, but don't truly live their life to God's standards really aren't followers of Christ.


Nevertheless, whether or not every person who claims to be a Christian, Catholic etc. are Good or Bad does not help to bolster your argument in support of homosexuality. But rather just says that not every person who claims to be a Christian, Catholic etc. are Good. Thus, I think you are trying to say that every person that is a Christian, Catholic etc. is bad because SOME people who claim to be Christians, Catholics etc. do bad things and don't truly live by God's standards. Which is crazy because even though some who claim to be Christian do bad things, not all Christians are like that. There are many Christians who do good things and use the power of God to enrich the lives of others.

The teaching of ************ are supposed to help lead those who follow him to do good in their own lives and the lives of others. However, SOME people will claim to be Christian, Catholic etc. and they will do the opposite of what God wanted and taught to those who follow him. Thus, it is not Christianity that is bad, but it is those people who claim to follow Christ, yet do the opposite of what ************ taught all his followers.

No follower of Christ in this thread has made any argument stating that everyone who claims to be Christian, Catholic etc. are Good. They're just stating what they interpret the Bible to be saying about homosexuality. So rather than bash any and every person who follows Christ, you should focus on bolstering an argument for your cause that actually supports homosexuality. Because so far your arguments just shows that not EVERY person who claims to be a Christian, Catholic etc do the right thing.

There's good and bad in all walks of life, so by pointing out that SOME people who claim to be Christians, but do bad things doesn't prove that Christianity is wrong or that Jesus is wrong. But rather, that not everyone who claims to follow Christ truly live by God's standards.

Those in this thread who are followers of Christ are offering you their interpretation of what the Bible says about something in this case homosexuality.If you don't agree with the bible fine, but don't bash Christians for agreeing with or following what is in the bible. Most if not all Christians in this thread are leaving it up to God to decide who makes it to heaven and who doesn't.

 

[Boogs]

So, why point to Lot and the Angels then as an example of God being against homosexuality?

I'm not sure what you're asking upstater

 

[upstater1]

So, Episcopalians, who disagree with you about the word of God, aren't Christian.

Now that we cleared that up.

And you don't think that's insulting and offensive?

Some people who claim to be Christians, Catholics etc. don't live according to God's word. No one is saying that every person that claims to be a Christian, Catholics etc truly lives their life for God. However, many Christians, Catholics etc. truly try to live their lives to God's standards. Those who claim to be followers of Christ, but don't truly live their life to God's standards really aren't followers of Christ.

 

[upstater1]

I'm not sure what you're asking upstater

I'm saying that people cite the Lot passage in saying their religion is against homosexuality. The very same passage they cite is pro-gang-rape of virgins.

 

[Christiancat]

So, Episcopalians, who disagree with you about the word of God, aren't Christian.

Now that we cleared that up.

And you don't think that's insulting and offensive?

I don't like the way you're coming off at me. Many that know me as a poster know that I am a nice poster. With that being said my post wasn't intended to offend anyone. I said the statement some people who claim to be Christians, Catholics etc. aren't all good and don't live to God's standard. I was stating that in reference to some posters saying that they know certain Catholic Priests that molested children. That is one example of some person claiming to be in this case catholic and not living according to God's standard. Thus, showing that not all who claim to be Catholic are good and follow God's teachings. I was saying that I know that not every person who claims to be Christian is good. However, Christianity itself is NOT bad, but rather those who claim to be Christian, Catholic etc. and do bad things are the ones who are bad. Jesus's teachings try to teach the fellow person to do the right thing and do good by your fellow person which is part of the teachings of Christ. Many Catholics, Christians etc try to live by Christ's teaching, but unfairly get mixed in with those few bad apples. Which leads some to try and say see that Catholic or Christian did that horrible act, so it must mean that Christianity is wrong and that Catholics, Christians etc are bad people which is wrong and unfair.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't like the way you're coming off at me. Many that know me as a poster know that I am a nice poster. With that being said my post was'nt intended to offend anyone. I said the statement some people who claim to be Christians, Catholics etc. aren't all good and don't live to God's standard. I was stating that in reference to some posters saying that they know Catholic Priests molested children. That is one example of some person claiming to be in this case catholic and not living according to God's standard.Thus, showing that not all who claim to be catholic are good.I was saying I know that not every person who claims to be Christian is good. However, Christianity itself is not bad, but rather those few who claim to be Christian, Catholic etc. and do bad things are the ones who are bad. Jesus's teachings try to teach the fellow person to do the right thing and do good by your fellow person which is part of the teachings of Christ. Many Catholics, Christians etc try to live by Christ's teaching, but unfairly get mixed in with those few bad apples. Which leads some to try and say see that catholic or Christian did that horrible act, so it must mean that Catholics, Christians etc are bad people which is wrong and unfair.

If what you profess is hurtful to others, whether you mean well or not, it is not right. "Christians" and society in general telling gay people that what they feel is wrong because that is what you believe has certainly been harmful to some gays, especially teenagers who must listen to people ridicule them and tell them there is something wrong with them because of what they feel.
Gay teenagers have resorted to self-medicating with drugs, disassociating themselves from mainstream society out of fear, shame or hatred, and in many cases committed suicide.

I do not understand how it is a 'Christian attitude' to judge people based upon what you believe and cause so much hurt.

A gay teenager has as much right to live the way they feel is correct as you do, and your (not you individually but the group you are posting as a representative of) beliefs being shoved in their face and making them feel like less of human being is really despicable. You have a right to say whatever you want, but you have a responsibility to understand how it affects others and to recognize that just because you believe it, doesn't mean other people must be force fed it.

And for the record, the part about Preists molesting children was directed at the high moral ground the poster was putting the church that has allowed it to happen for 100 years on. Frankly I have no respect for the position on anything sex related of an organization that is frought with child molesters and refuses to take a real stand to make it stop. It would have been very simple to guarantee and end to it many years ago, if it were taken seriously and thousands of damaged children who should not have had to endure that.

I will take the heaven with the gay people over the one with the people in the Catholic church who looked the other way and allowed rape.

 

[PP2]

Also no Christian in this thread is condemning anyone to hell. Those Christians in this thread talking about hell are explaining to you their interpretation of what the bible says about certain acts, hell, and how some are condemned to hell for those acts. The bible states this stuff. Christians didn't come up with this and Christians in this thread are NOT trying to condemn anyone to hell. What or who the bible condemns to hell is what or who the bible condemns to hell.

I want to add that this post of your is a double standard.

What do I mean?

You say that when those who are intolerant of homosexuality gravitate towards religion and the bible when backed into a corner.

Well the same could be said of some of those who are atheists or against Jesus and his followers. Some of the atheists when backed in to a corner are ready to gravitate to saying certain priests molested children or how they know of some Christians who watch gay porn or do other bad things.

Some people who claim to be Christians, Catholics etc. don't live according to God's word. No one is saying that every person that claims to be a Christian, Catholics etc truly lives their life for God. However, many Christians, Catholics etc. truly try to live their lives to God's standards. Those who claim to be followers of Christ, but don't truly live their life to God's standards really aren't followers of Christ.


Nevertheless, whether or not every person who claims to be a Christian, Catholic etc. are Good or Bad does not help to bolster your argument in support of homosexuality. But rather just says that not every person who claims to be a Christian, Catholic etc. are Good. Thus, I think you are trying to say that every person that is a Christian, Catholic etc. is bad because SOME people who claim to be Christians, Catholics etc. do bad things and don't truly live by God's standards. Which is crazy because even though some who claim to be Christian do bad things, not all Christians are like that. There are many Christians who do good things and use the power of God to enrich the lives of others.

The teaching of ************ are supposed to help lead those who follow him to do good in their own lives and the lives of others. However, SOME people will claim to be Christian, Catholic etc. and they will do the opposite of what God wanted and taught to those who follow him. Thus, it is not Christianity that is bad, but it is those people who claim to follow Christ, yet do the opposite of what ************ taught all his followers.

No follower of Christ in this thread has made any argument stating that everyone who claims to be Christian, Catholic etc. are Good. They're just stating what they interpret the Bible to be saying about homosexuality. So rather than bash any and every person who follows Christ, you should focus on bolstering an argument for your cause that actually supports homosexuality. Because so far your arguments just shows that not EVERY person who claims to be a Christian, Catholic etc do the right thing.

There's good and bad in all walks of life, so by pointing out that SOME people who claim to be Christians, but do bad things doesn't prove that Christianity is wrong or that Jesus is wrong. But rather, that not everyone who claims to follow Christ truly live by God's standards.

Those in this thread who are followers of Christ are offering you their interpretation of what the Bible says about something in this case homosexuality.If you don't agree with the bible fine, but don't bash Christians for agreeing with or following what is in the bible. Most if not all Christians in this thread are leaving it up to God to decide who makes it to heaven and who doesn't.

I have nothing against Christianity itself. It is just as effective a vehicle as any of the other religions are, towards self-actualization.

I do have big issues when practitioners of this religion or any other (especially Islam) deem any one person higher or lower than another. While you or any other Christians don't explicitly condemn deviators of YOUR values to hell, the condemnation is still there, is still implicit. That is the double standard I refuse to tolerate.

Your interpretation of the bible is yours alone, and that interpretation should not be imposed on anyone else. Neither you or anyone else has the right to judge another person's lifestyle.

I find it to be supreme hypocrisy that while many of you supposed Christians have cited passages or verses to condemn or "disagree" with certain lifestyles, behaviors, race, or certain individuals, you happenstance leave out so many of Jesus's teaching which admonish against judging other people (Judge not that ye be not judged), along with the many other verses in the bible which stress love and tolerance.

For me, the bible is good literature, full of excellent parables and wisdoms, but I would never interpret it literally, as many people have done, as it is full of contradictions and paradoxes. If I took it literally, I would be going to hell if I slept with another man, but if my two daughters slept with me, I would just be fine.

 

[Christiancat]

I have nothing against Christianity itself. It is just as effective a vehicle as any of the other religions are, towards self-actualization.

I do have big issues when practitioners of this religion or any other (especially Islam) deem any one person higher or lower than another. While you or any other Christians don't explicitly condemn deviators of YOUR values to hell, the condemnation is still there, is still implicit. That is the double standard I refuse to tolerate.

Your interpretation of the bible is yours alone, and that interpretation should not be imposed on anyone else. Neither you or anyone else has the right to judge another person's lifestyle.

I find it to be supreme hypocrisy that while many of you supposed Christians have cited passages or verses to condemn or "disagree" with certain lifestyles, behaviors, race, or certain individuals, you happenstance leave out so many of Jesus's teaching which admonish against judging other people (Judge not that ye be not judged), along with the many other verses in the bible which stress love and tolerance.

For me, the bible is good literature, full of excellent parables and wisdoms, but I would never interpret it literally, as many people have done, as it is full of contradictions and paradoxes. If I took it literally, I would be going to hell if I slept with another man, but if my two daughters slept with me, I would just be fine.

Where in this thread have I posted saying anything bad about Micheal Sam coming out? All I said was that many Christians in this thread are just giving you their interpretation of what the bible says about certain acts, Hell etc. I feel that Christians are free to give their interpretation of the bible because they follow the bible. It is not about imposing your views on others, but rather it is just about stating how and what you feel the bible to be saying about certain subjects. If you disagree with how Christians in this thread interpret certain acts or subjects in the bible than you're free to do so. You can simply disagree with their stance on the subject without bashing them personally as Christians. Because at the end of the day all they are trying do is follow what they believe the bible to be saying. As far as Micheal Sam Coming out. I stated yesterday in this thread that his sexual preference doesn't matter to me. I leave that for God to decide who goes to heaven or not.
Judge ye not ye be judged works both ways. You judge a Christian, Catholic etc. than they may judge an atheist and vice versa. It's a vicious cycle really. Here's a site that provides a brief analysis on the Lot and his daughters situation. Remember the bible never said that Lot sleeping with his daughters was good or bad. The story was simply told from a neutral viewpoint. http://ponderingscripture.wordpress...31-35-lots-daughters-sleep-with-their-father/

 

[Ring 6]

Where in this thread have I posted saying anything bad about Micheal Sam coming out? All I said was that many Christians in this thread are just giving you their interpretation of what the bible says about certain acts, Hell etc. I think followers of Christ are free to give their interpretation of the bible because some follow the bible. It is not about imposing your views on others it just about stating how and what you feel the bible to be saying about certain subjects. If you disagree with those followers in Christ's interpretation of the bible than you're free to do so. You can simply disagree with their stance on the subject without bashing them as Christians. As far as Micheal Sam Coming out. I stated yesterday in this thread that his sexual preference doesn't matter to me.
Judge ye not ye be judged works both ways. You judge a Christian, Catholic etc. than they may judge an atheist and vice versa. It's a vicious cycle really. Here's a site that provides a brief analysis on the Lot and his daughters situation. Remover the bible never said that Lot sleeping with his daughters was good or bad. Thee story was simply told from a neutral viewpoint. Genesis 19:31-35 ? Lot?s Daughters Sleep With Their Father | Pondering Scripture

Your source suggests that when the mob wanted gay sex and Lot offered them his daughters instead he was joking. That invalidates your source as biased in my mind.

 

[SalemPats]

For me, the bible is good literature, full of excellent parables and wisdoms, but I would never interpret it literally, as many people have done, as it is full of contradictions and paradoxes. If I took it literally, I would be going to hell if I slept with another man, but if my two daughters slept with me, I would just be fine.

Great Point.

ChristianCat - Do you prefer homosexuality or incest?

 

[Boogs]

I'm saying that people cite the Lot passage in saying their religion is against homosexuality. The very same passage they cite is pro-gang-rape of virgins.

God is not for gang rape either.

 

[Boogs]

I have nothing against Christianity itself. It is just as effective a vehicle as any of the other religions are, towards self-actualization.

I do have big issues when practitioners of this religion or any other (especially Islam) deem any one person higher or lower than another. While you or any other Christians don't explicitly condemn deviators of YOUR values to hell, the condemnation is still there, is still implicit. That is the double standard I refuse to tolerate.

Your interpretation of the bible is yours alone, and that interpretation should not be imposed on anyone else. Neither you or anyone else has the right to judge another person's lifestyle.

I find it to be supreme hypocrisy that while many of you supposed Christians have cited passages or verses to condemn or "disagree" with certain lifestyles, behaviors, race, or certain individuals, you happenstance leave out so many of Jesus's teaching which admonish against judging other people (Judge not that ye be not judged), along with the many other verses in the bible which stress love and tolerance.

For me, the bible is good literature, full of excellent parables and wisdoms, but I would never interpret it literally, as many people have done, as it is full of contradictions and paradoxes. If I took it literally, I would be going to hell if I slept with another man, but if my two daughters slept with me, I would just be fine.

I'm not sure where all the made up nonsense about "us" Christians is coming from. Your post and others are full of assumptions we never said. There is no judging going on here by Christians. Michael Sam says he presently practices a gay lifestyle. That's a fact as Sam states it. I didn't judge him to come to the conclusion. He gladly states it himself. Lol at you guys putting words in other peoples mouths.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I'm saying that not all churches are created equally. Since they disagree, how can each be from God? Would God set up a church and then set up another church to contradict it?

What the question should be is, which church did God set up?

I believe that God set up the Catholic church through his Son Jesus and gave this church his Holy Spirit and therfore the fullness of truth.

So is it possible for other churches to have truth? Of course, it is....insofar, as that church agrees with the RCC, they will be teaching the truth. If they disagree with a revealed doctrine of the Catholic church, then they teach error.

Lmao-This is flat out insane. Those who believe as you do regarding afterlife know the truth and those who don't are in the wrong. Nothing incredibly arrogant about that now is there?


The Bible reminds me of that old game where a person whispers something in your ear and you pass it on and they pass it on and on and on and on it goes, what ultimately comes out of it is as far from the initial whisper as it could possibly be. And the idea that one group of people know the truth and everyone else is wrong is exactly what has led to all of the violence associated with religions and their followers over the history of mankind.


Bottom line---where are the lions when you really need them?

 

[Huckleberry1]

Everyone is entitled to their faith and their beliefs, and that should be respected, however those who insist that their beliefs are right and others are wrong have no right to any respect at all and should be ridiculed at every turn.


No one knows what comes next until they have been there, to date that means no one knows what is next.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not sure where all the made up nonsense about "us" Christians is coming from. Your post and others are full of assumptions we never said. There is no judging going on here by Christians. Michael Sam says he presently practices a gay lifestyle. That's a fact as Sam states it. I didn't judge him to come to the conclusion. He gladly states it himself. Lol at you guys putting words in other peoples mouths.

Thats kind of funny. You think calling him gay is judgment. The judgment is calling him wrong because he is gay.

 

[Ring 6]

God is not for gang rape either.

Lot was, as long as they rape his daughters and not a man.

 

[Boogs]

Lot was, as long as they rape his daughters and not a man.

That's on Lot then.

 

[Ring 6]

That's on Lot then.

But the fables in the Bible are used to say being gay is wrong, so therefore offering your daughters to gang rape is OK, according to those fables.