Christopher Price: Fletcher looks bigger.

[Oswlek]

I personally think a heathy Eric Moore put out there as an OLB will be a much better player than Fletcher will be this year.

There is a reason why Belichick did not address the OLB issue and Moore and Fletcher are surely two reasons why.

Moore plays DL,but is the right type of size and can certainly play the OLB position if he gets some work there.

He played OLB for almost the entire Miami game last year.

YouTube - ?No. 98 Eric Moore 3-4 OLB?‏

He needs to learn a few more pass rush moves from a 2pt stance, coverage responsibilites as well as just getting comfortable so he can react to the play rather than thinking about his role. But he definitely showed promise and improved as the game went along.

 

[patchick]

He played OLB for almost the entire Miami game last year.

YouTube - ?No. 98 Eric Moore 3-4 OLB?‏

He needs to learn a few more pass rush moves from a 2pt stance, coverage responsibilites as well as just getting comfortable so he can react to the play rather than thinking about his role. But he definitely showed promise and improved as the game went along.

He did, but we should also keep in mind that while Moore is new to the Pats, he's not a young developmental prospect. He's 30 years old, 3 years older than Ninkovich.

 

[Oswlek]

He did, but we should also keep in mind that while Moore is new to the Pats, he's not a young developmental prospect. He's 30 years old, 3 years older than Ninkovich.

He isn't young, but I'd argue he is on the devlopmental OLB tract. Sure, he may not give you a decade of Vrabel, but history suggests that, if he takes to the role, he'll be solid for another 3 years or so.

 

[jays52]

He played OLB for almost the entire Miami game last year.

YouTube - ?No. 98 Eric Moore 3-4 OLB?‏

He needs to learn a few more pass rush moves from a 2pt stance, coverage responsibilites as well as just getting comfortable so he can react to the play rather than thinking about his role. But he definitely showed promise and improved as the game went along.

That was a nice vid. Moore did a nice job against the run, displaying the ability to engage and shed. I also liked his awareness and understanding of scheme as he was brought down in run blitzes. The play where he checked his rush and grabbed Brown on the swing pass was a thing of beauty. That play was wide open for Miami and Moore prevented a significant gain.

You can tell that he's just starting to figure out how to rush from a 2-point. He's often engaging and pressing the blocker, hoping to exploit an overreach from the blocker and pull to disengage. He's not going to ever be able to turn and get flat, but he's got a decent enough power game that will improve with better hand technique. You can see when he rushes from the 3-pt that he's very quick to chop with his hands, and he's got quite a bit of wiggle for a guy his size. He's going to be better attacking across the tackle from the 2-pt, but if he learns to disguise the swat of the swim he can be effective going to the outside as well.

He looked comfortable in zone drops, and did have a pretty good feel for what was developing around him. So much of shallow zones for linebackers is feeling the routes develop outside your peripheral as you read your keys. Moore seems to have a strong feel for that.

I still think they need a guy who can win with burst, but Moore is a nice addition.

 

[mcsully]

To short..


Bruschi at Patriots Predraft Party in '10 basically said its important the OLB to have a long build and be tall enough to look around his blocker. He said he tried OLB one day in camp and it became apparent it wasn't going to work out.

 

[Shelterdog]

He isn't young, but I'd argue he is on the devlopmental OLB tract. Sure, he may not give you a decade of Vrabel, but history suggests that, if he takes to the role, he'll be solid for another 3 years or so.

He's also only played in about 40 NFL/UFL games (preseason excluded) in his five years as a pro and he played spot today in most of those so he probably doesn't have the same wear and tear as most players his age.

That said it's pretty tough for me to call a guy who was on prepstar's 1999 dream team a "developmental" player. He's a veteran DE with real promise as a short term conversion project.

 

[Oswlek]

He's also only played in about 40 NFL/UFL games (preseason excluded) in his five years as a pro and he played spot today in most of those so he probably doesn't have the same wear and tear as most players his age.

That said it's pretty tough for me to call a guy who was on prepstar's 1999 dream team a "developmental" player. He's a veteran DE with real promise as a short term conversion project.

That's the thing, all NE OLBs are "developmental", which is precisely why BB seems so reticent to draft on high.

 

[crowell33]

To short..


Bruschi at Patriots Predraft Party in '10 basically said its important the OLB to have a long build and be tall enough to look around his blocker. He said he tried OLB one day in camp and it became apparent it wasn't going to work out.

I think that was probably true in 1996 when Tedy came into the league.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

From the Twitterverse. . . .

 

[Snake Eyes]

To short..


Bruschi at Patriots Predraft Party in '10 basically said its important the OLB to have a long build and be tall enough to look around his blocker. He said he tried OLB one day in camp and it became apparent it wasn't going to work out.

Do you think that just because it didnt work out for Teddy therefore it won't work for anyone under 6'4? I've also heard "experts" claim that Tebow's height was barely adequate, at just under 6'3, and then I saw Michael Vick (6'0) tear up the league and Aaron Rodgers (6'2) win a Superbowl.

If Fletcher has all the other goods needed to be an OLB he's not going to fail for being 6'2 rather than 6'4.

 

[Ring 6]

Completely different scheme. Heck, their run responsibilities are nearly the exact opposite.

Pats OLBs are taught to set the edge and funnel rushers back inside, where Mayo can clean up.

Not exactly. They are asked to play the area from outswide the T to the sideline, by 2 gapping the TE, FB or pulling G. Setting the edge is playing 2 gap discipline on that blocker. Failure to creates a lane at the point of attack rather than the boundary.
When the D is working properly the OLB doesnt funnell plays inside, he caused the RB trying to get to the edge to run east-west all the way to the boundary so the corners and safeties (and possibly ILBS) can make the run support play.
If he is 'forcing' the play inside that would imply he has lost inside leverage which is disastrous if the play is designed to go off tackle.

Steelers LBs run around blockers and try to jam the middle, either getting a TFL or pushing the RB outside, where the safeties can clean up.

Typically their OLBs are going to have contain, but without also having Off Tackle responsibilities, which is a big difference. Or they will blitz and not have contain.

There's a reason we see Polamalu getting so many runs for no/minimal gain out in the flats. As far as I know, no other NFL team asks its OLBs to do what the Pats do, so there's really no comparison of OLBs among teams.

Polamalu makes plays because of his assignment, not the OLBs.

 

[IcyPatriot]

chris is a pecker checker ... :confused3:

 

[Ring 6]

Again I think you are taking an ideal and assuming its the norm. On 3rd and 10 no is going to ask any OLB to "set the edge". I almost wish I had never heard the term,"setting the edge" since it is now so over used by a lot of people who really don't know what they are talking about (present company excepted. of course )

BTW - forcing a RB deep and wide is ALSO an accepted result when you "set the edge"

BTW - "setting the edge" requires just not being moved off the LOS, keeping control of blocker, and ideally keeping your outside arm free so you can move down the line to the outside freely

BTW- NONE of the above is applicable when you are rushing the passer, which is why there are several great from the outside pass rushers who AREN'T 6'5 with long arms

No one ever said that Fletcher was a 3 down OLB prospect. It was only opined that because of his quickness, he COULD be an option as the outside pass rusher everyone seems to think is an absolute necessity every draft

Love your comment on the term setting the edge.
It seems to have become the stock answer to why any pass rushing OLB isn't draft in NE.
In reality the reason is that BBs believes are grounded in the belief that if you cant stop the run you cant win, and the philoosphy that he wants players who can do everything the position asks capably over players who have heavy strengths and weaknesses.
BBs most overriding philosophy is that defense is played by a TEAM and the if you cannot trust the guy next you will do his job you are screwed.
This leads to favoring a guy who is capable at everything the position asks but spectacular at none than a guy who is dominant in one way but a liablity in another. It also needs to be noted that BBs defensive scheme focusses on all 11 players together, while others sacrifice some players (and opens weaknesses) to free others.
A guy getting 12 sacks a year in a 1gap 34 where he rushes on virtually every pass play (ie Matthews or Harrison) isnt going to put up those numbers here, not because he can't make the same plays in our system,but because he will have less opportunities to do so, because BB is less likely to sell out a different area of the defense to create them.

One gap defenses have the philosophy that they will create a play during a drive that will kill it, so they accept a high level of risk to get that play.
Two gap defenses have the philosophy that you will have to beat me on a very high number of plays to score on me, so I am not going to do anything to give you an easy big play.

After all of these years it still surprises me that people do not recognize that BB is and has been possibly THE most conservative HC in the NFL, or at least very close to it. Perhaps taking risks in high probability situations is what clouds that.

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

Love your comment on the term setting the edge.
It seems to have become the stock answer to why any pass rushing OLB isn't draft in NE.
In reality the reason is that BBs believes are grounded in the belief that if you cant stop the run you cant win, and the philoosphy that he wants players who can do everything the position asks capably over players who have heavy strengths and weaknesses.
BBs most overriding philosophy is that defense is played by a TEAM and the if you cannot trust the guy next you will do his job you are screwed.
This leads to favoring a guy who is capable at everything the position asks but spectacular at none than a guy who is dominant in one way but a liablity in another. It also needs to be noted that BBs defensive scheme focusses on all 11 players together, while others sacrifice some players (and opens weaknesses) to free others.
A guy getting 12 sacks a year in a 1gap 34 where he rushes on virtually every pass play (ie Matthews or Harrison) isnt going to put up those numbers here, not because he can't make the same plays in our system,but because he will have less opportunities to do so, because BB is less likely to sell out a different area of the defense to create them.

One gap defenses have the philosophy that they will create a play during a drive that will kill it, so they accept a high level of risk to get that play.
Two gap defenses have the philosophy that you will have to beat me on a very high number of plays to score on me, so I am not going to do anything to give you an easy big play.

After all of these years it still surprises me that people do not recognize that BB is and has been possibly THE most conservative HC in the NFL, or at least very close to it. Perhaps taking risks in high probability situations is what clouds that.

Well said!

 

[VJCPatriot]

so, if I understand your post correctly, you are implying that James Harrison or Lamarr Woodley couldn't play outside backer for the Pats??

It's impossible to say that for sure, obviously. But consider that Adalius Thomas was dominant in Baltimore, but when he came to the Pats system, he floundered pretty badly. It's really difficult to compare players across different systems and just assume they can have success in New England just because they had success in another 3-4 system.

 

[Ring 6]

It's impossible to say that for sure, obviously. But consider that Adalius Thomas was dominant in Baltimore, but when he came to the Pats system, he floundered pretty badly. It's really difficult to compare players across different systems and just assume they can have success in New England just because they had success in another 3-4 system.

Thomas played well his first 2 seasons. It may not show statistically because he played a different role, and for a while even a different position.
History is being rewritten incorrectly on this board to consider him a flop when in fact he was a very good player on the 2007 18-1 team, and had a good season, but for missing some time in 08 due to injury. He was awful in 09, but up until then he did not flounder here.

 

[signbabybrady]

After all of these years it still surprises me that people do not recognize that BB is and has been possibly THE most conservative HC in the NFL, or at least very close to it. Perhaps taking risks in high probability situations is what clouds that.

People fixate on offense when they think of conservative. And he has been both on offense.