Charles Clay signs Bills offer sheet

[Gumby]

I wouldn't categorize that structure as a poison pill, the contract is definitely front loaded, but it's not a poison pill. A poison pill would be something like if there was a provision in the contract that the entire contract becomes guaranteed if Clay plays more than 4 games a year in Miami...usually poison pills are only meant to prevent the other team from matching, without affecting the drafter of the contract with a poison pill provision.

Regardless, there is nothing smart about paying an average/above average TE anywhere close to $8mil/yr. Clay is a $5 mil/yr at best.

"True" Poison pill contract-provisions are illegal (since the curtis martin saga). But this is about as close as you can legally get to one. They are taking advantage of Phish's bad cap position to get what they want (the same way Jesters did to us).

That doesnt mean either decision of "what they want" is a GOOD long-term decision. .... In both cases, I think Jills and Jesters set themselves up for problems down the road. But you never know, someone out there has to hit the lottery eventually.

 

[Triumph]

Was Miami wise to transition Clay?

I say no.

 

[Triumph]

12 million in each of the first two years? Do I have that right? Are they out of their freaking minds?

Did Rex give Clay more money than Gronk just to be stir sheet up?

 

[ALP]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't tgis make clay one the highest paid skill players over the next two years?

...in the NFL?!?

 

[RobertWeathers]

"True" Poison pill contract-provisions are illegal (since the curtis martin saga). But this is about as close as you can legally get to one.

Yes. It is illegal but damn if I can understand the real difference between the Martin and Welker situations

Here is the Martin issue...

It was a five-year, $28 million contract with a club option for a sixth year that would bring the total to $36 million, but what made it unusual was Martin's ability to void the deal after one year. It also included a clause that prohibited the team from using the franchise tag, meaning he could be unrestricted after one year. It was too risky for the Patriots to match because they faced the prospect of losing him after a year (perhaps to the Jets) and receiving nothing -- no draft picks. The Jets leveraged that insecurity. It was a classic poison pill. The Patriots complained to the NFL management council, insisting the offer sheet violated the collective bargaining agreement. Eventually, the league sided with the Jets.
To this day, Kraft believes it was an underhanded move. "That was what I call borderline attorney ... you know, ambulance-chaser, attorney kind of stuff," he said. "It was something where they took advantage. ... It was not the intent of the deal. It was clever lawyer stuff. It's not in the spirit of what the whole agreement was, and that loophole was plugged."

The following year, the league banned the poison pill. Too late for the Patriots.

In 2007, that Pats went down a similar road with Welker and the Dolphins..

After the 2006 season, the Dolphins offered Welker, a restricted free agent, a second round tender, with a $1.35 million one-year contract. However, the New England Patriots suddenly came into the picture, and looked ready to snatch the wide out from the Dolphins. The Patriots were free to negotiate a contract with Welker, but Miami would have had seven days to match.

So, the Patriots were looking to add a poison pill to the deal. Essentially, New England was looking to add a stipulation stating that if Welker played a certain number of games (around 5) in the state of Florida, a huge bonus would kick in. That bonus would prevent the Dolphins from being able to match the offer, and New England would be able to sign Welker, sending a second round pick to Miami for him.

In the end, rather than officially put the poison pill into an offer, the Patriots worked out a trade with the Dolphins, sending their 2007 second and seventh round picks to Miami for Welker.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Have you guys read the comment on PFT?

The guy is a stud. More dangerous when the ball is in his hands. He’s not a prototype right end but a weapon.. If Ebron could become him I’d be a happy Lions fan.

Trade for Philip Rivers and the Bills have a shot at the Superbowl.

Everybody has all the ansers, go Rex, go Doug, I love what you guy’s are doing. Go bills!!!

 

[50-yard-line]

Julius Thomas has a cap hit of 10.3 this year...8 next year - 18.3 for the next 2.
Gronk has a cap hit of 8.65 this year...8.65 next year - 17.3 for the next 2.
Jimmy Graham has a cap hit of 8 this year...9 next year - 17 for the next 2.

Haven't see the breakdown of Clay's first two years, but he's getting 24.5 over that span.

Clay's contract gets team friendly after that, but 3 years is a long time, and really, Clay is going to take a massive pay cut in year 3, 4 and 5 without any issues?

The Bills will restructure him next year, almost certainly, but his aav still makes him #4 in the league among tight ends. he also had knee and hamstring issues this last year. He's a mediocre blocker and not big for a TE.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Did Rex give Clay more money than Gronk just to be stir sheet up?

I hope so, that would be a train wreck way of running a team.. but you never know, Rex has some weird obsession with Belichick and the Pats

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Julius Thomas has a cap hit of 10.3 this year...8 next year - 18.3 for the next 2.
Gronk has a cap hit of 8.65 this year...8.65 next year - 17.3 for the next 2.
Jimmy Graham has a cap hit of 8 this year...9 next year - 17 for the next 2.

Haven't see the breakdown of Clay's first two years, but he's getting 24.5 over that span.

Clay's contract gets team friendly after that, but 3 years is a long time, and really, Clay is going to take a massive pay cut in year 3, 4 and 5 without any issues?

The Bills will restructure him next year, almost certainly, but his aav still makes him #4 in the league among tight ends. he also had knee and hamstring issues this last year. He's a mediocre blocker and not big for a TE.

They way overpaid, but I think front loading a lot of the big cap hits early in the deal is smart if you think you'll have the room..it sets you up real nice long term while keeping a good talent..

Smart cap manipulation IMO, but really dumb as far as what they paid for what they're getting.

That's why they're the Jills

 

[50-yard-line]

They way overpaid, but I think front loading a lot of the big cap hits early in the deal is smart if you think you'll have the room..it sets you up real nice long term while keeping a good talent..

Smart cap manipulation IMO, but really dumb as far as what they paid for what they're getting.

That's why they're the Jills

No, I agree and get the concept - I wish the Pats had been more aggressive front-ending Manny Sanders last year. But look at the $$$$ difference. Teams seem to have lost their collectives minds this off-season.

Suh, Revis, Maxwell, Clay...unreal money being thrown around out there.

 

[Triumph]

I hope so, that would be a train wreck way of running a team.. but you never know, Rex has some weird obsession with Belichick and the Pats

Over the length of the contract Gronk is paid more but Clays first 2 years makes him more money than Gronk.

If Buffalo succeeds in landing Clay watch Rex come out and blab that Clay is just like Gronk.

 

[Gumby]

No, I agree and get the concept - I wish the Pats had been more aggressive front-ending Manny Sanders last year. But look at the $$$$ difference. Teams seem to have lost their collectives minds this off-season.

Suh, Revis, Maxwell, Clay...unreal money being thrown around out there.

No offense, but it feels like we say the bolded part in the first two weeks of FA EVERY YEAR.

I think it is just a rotation of which teams lose their collective minds. Just a rotating 30% each year for a three-year period. 10% of the teams actually manage the cap.

 

[50-yard-line]

No offense, but it feels like we say the bolded part in the first two weeks of FA EVERY YEAR.

I think it is just a rotation of which teams lose their collective minds. Just a rotating 30% each year for a three-year period. 10% of the teams actually manage the cap.

The numbers this year seem a lot higher - 114 million, 60 guaranteed, for Suh (he's great, but wow); 15, 16, 17 almost all guaranteed even for injury, for Revis; 10+ for Maxwell???????, the Clay contract?

I wonder if a lot of teams were in a pay-the-cash-or-give-it-over situation. The numbers just seem stratospheric.

 

[Gumby]

Yes. It is illegal but damn if I can understand the real difference between the Martin and Welker situations

Here is the Martin issue...



In 2007, that Pats went down a similar road with Welker and the Dolphins..

I understand your confusion-share it somewhat. But IMO -- I think, ONLY as you are comparing a "media-generated idea of what the Patriots MIGHT HAVE INTENDED TO DO in 2007" with what the JESTERS ACTUALLY DID; does it make it seem eerily similar.

Plus, I am not exactly sure when the NFL & NFLPA actually put their foot down on the poison-pill issue. It might have been after the Welker deal took place. In that one, to my understanding; RK stepped in and said to BB -- 'hey lets be men about this and just do it upfront with the Phish (trade picks); instead of just fleecing them.' -- It could be that after that he went to the NFL and got them to make that a standard for all the teams in the next ownders meetings. So regardless, at some point (pre or post 2007) the NFL said you cant put terms into RFA contracts that are targeted at ONE TEAM (like playing x # of games in a particular state). And that is why I said poison pills are illegal (but dont ask me to quote the rule book para).

But that doesnt mean you cant legally create a 'poison-pill effect' by doing what the Jesters/Jills did: take advantage of someone else's previous cap mis-management or the inevitable cap restrictions from normal management . Teams that mismanage for 2 or 3 years often eventually get a down year with a huge 1-year window of opportunity (jesters).

Aside: The revis situation cant technically be a real poison-pill anyway as I think the term is intended to/implies ONLY when trying to take away a RFA. Revis (at least after patriots passed on the $20M option) was a true FA. But that then circles us back to the tampering issue where they were broadcasting and making offers before the option was declined (because they knew Pats couldnt match the 2015 cap charge they were willing to put out).

But theoretically (if other teams have the appropriate year-cap room) there are 30 other teams that could match your offer. So a poison-pill effect is only going to get you a bargaining advantage if there are limited #s of teams interested or the guy is a RFA (so only 2 teams in the running).

 

[patchick]

The AAV of Clay's deal isn't crazy at all, but that level of guaranteed $$ to a guy who has never played a snap for you (and who isn't a transformative talent)...that's just not the kind of deal you generally see well-run teams making.

Just for giggles, take a look at last year's production for their new $12M man vs. the $2M man they jettisoned:

Charles Clay 58 REC 605 YDS (10.4 AVG) 3 TD 1ST% 53%
Scott Chandler 47 REC 497 YDS (10.6 AVG) 3 TD 1ST% 60%

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I wouldn't categorize that structure as a poison pill, the contract is definitely front loaded, but it's not a poison pill. A poison pill would be something like if there was a provision in the contract that the entire contract becomes guaranteed if Clay plays more than 4 games a year in Miami...usually poison pills are only meant to prevent the other team from matching, without affecting the drafter of the contract with a poison pill provision.

Regardless, there is nothing smart about paying an average/above average TE anywhere close to $8mil/yr. Clay is a $5 mil/yr at best.

For the record, the most recent CBA doesn't prohibit poison pill clauses, but instead nullifies them: any contract provision that would only affect the matching team (but not the offering team) does not, in fact, need to be matched at all. [The new CBA states that only "principal terms" need to be matched, and such clauses do not count as principal terms.]

 

[PatsFan2]

As Great as Rex have been on the Defensive decesions for his Team he is the exact opposite on the Offensive side. I know Charles Clay looks alot like Antonio Gates but thats as far as the similarites go. The guy have not put up the numbers to justify that contract Clay's agent gotta love him. It Wouldn't surprise me if Scott Chandler put up better numbers or similar as the #2 TE here...seems like Rex Reached on this one. Unless Rex has someone or something coming down the pike I would love to see who is the QB that will throw em the ball.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Rex is all-in. If the Bills get off to a hot start, he could be on to something. If the Bills struggle out of the gate and the finger pointing begins with all those new high-paid players, the Bills are going to become the Oakland Raiders for the next five years.

 

[JackBauer]

Have you guys read the comment on PFT?

The guy is a stud. More dangerous when the ball is in his hands. He’s not a prototype right end but a weapon.. If Ebron could become him I’d be a happy Lions fan.

Trade for Philip Rivers and the Bills have a shot at the Superbowl.

Everybody has all the ansers, go Rex, go Doug, I love what you guy’s are doing. Go bills!!!

The comments I'm reading suggest even those who approve of the move admit they're paying way too much for the guy.

As one commenter wrote, Zach Miller for Jimmy Graham money.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Miami would have ended up paying him less, if they franchised him. The Transition tag is almost worthless and the price to sign a Franchised player is too high (2 1st round picks).

I liked Clay coming out of college, and thought that the Pats might take a run at him. But I figured his price tag would become too high. He is a good player, but again, neither the Jets nor the Bills have a QB!