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Chargers and Raiders threaten to move to LA


Actually, the article says they're rattling their sabers about it:

The teams will officially announce Friday that, while they work on stadium deals in their current cities, they will jointly pursue a shared, $1.7-billion NFL stadium in Carson as an alternative.

I'll change the headline to reflect that.
 
Is English a problem for you?

".......The teams will officially announce Friday that, while they work on stadium deals in their current cities, they will jointly pursue a shared, $1.7-billion NFL stadium in Carson as an alternative."

Admittedly a friend sent me the article and I just read the title. My mistake.

Although, sometimes, English is a problem for me thanks for asking.
 
I wouldn't worry too much about it. Goody will be on top of this situation. :rolleyes:
 
Admittedly a friend sent me the article and I just read the title. My mistake.

Although, sometimes, English is a problem for me thanks for asking.


It's all good, sometimes it is for mey tu. :)

(Sorry, for the snark earlier - hectic morning).
 
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It's all good, sometimes it is for mey tu. :)

(Sorry, for the snark earlier - hectic morning).

No problem Shmessy, everyone has those mornings! The reason I only read the title and posted was because I was having one myself haha.

Anyways, hypothetically, if this happens I see a lot of pissed of Chargers and Raiders fans and not really a boost in attendance from LA football fans.

On a side note, they are in the same division so how would Home/Away games work? It would be like us sharing a stadium with the jets! :yuck:
 
Nobody in LA cares about chargers

25% of the Chargers' season ticket holders live in Orange or LA counties. That's why Spanos is so afraid of the potential for another team to move to LA, and has been threatening to block it. He's allegedly wrangled up enough votes to block Kroenke's move (although it remains to be seen if Kroenke cares; it would be pretty cool if he just said **** that and moved anyway). The reason why he's gone through all this effort is because he knows that the LA market needs to be unoccupied for San Diego to remain a viable home for the Chargers. Why? Because, going back to the first sentence of this paragraph, the team relies on the LA/OC markets even to get to the meager level of support that it has managed.

And this is consistent with what I've seen. I live in LA county, so I think I can state on pretty good authority that there are lots of Chargers fans here. More people care about the Raiders, but the LA market is so huge that, if even a fraction of people in the area become Chargers fans, they'll be in a much better position than they are now. It's San Diego that pretty clearly doesn't care about the Chargers. When I went to the Sunday night game a couple months ago, we outnumbered Chargers fans by least 2 to 1, probably more.

I think a lot of people are underselling the LA market here. The Rams had strong attendance right up until people got wind of a relocation because the widow who inherited the team was from St. Louis and wanted to take it home with her. USC and UCLA both get a ton of support. I am 100% certain that, even with two teams in LA, neither would have the attendance/local support problems that the Chargers are having down in San Diego. LA fans have become fine with not having an NFL team, because what else are you going to do when the league bails on you for 20 years, only to use your city as a threat to extort more money out of every other league city? That doesn't mean that they don't want a team to support. People here want a team, they're just not willing to put up public money to get it done. And why should they? They know they don't have to. LA is playing the long game, and it's clearly working. They're going to get a team, and they're not going to have to give some billionaire massive taxpayer-funded handouts to make it happen.

As much as San Diego fans have a massive inferiority complex that leads to them hating LA )for reasons that have never been totally clear to me, nobody here minds San Diego), a lot of them will stay Chargers fans. The 25% of their season ticket holders who are in LA/OC will actually have the team closer to them if it's in Carson. Carson is a really interesting location, because it's south of the actual city of LA. It's right next to Long Beach (where I live), and Long Beach is on the OC county line. It's as close to Anaheim as it is to the city of LA. Anaheim will be a huge source of support for the Chargers if they move.
 
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Note: I'm not a California person, so keep that in mind... In particular I have no idea how many OAK fans live in the LA area.

Anyways, hypothetically, if this happens I see a lot of pissed of Chargers and Raiders fans and not really a boost in attendance from LA football fans.

Personally I can see the SAN fans dealing with it "fairly well". As above, they aren't really supporting the team locally anyhow. The new location would be under a 2 hour drive from SAN, like driving Boston to Hartford, and it'll be a nicer stadium experience.

However what's in it for the OAK fans? It's a 6+ hour drive, similar to driving Boston to Philly, and so we might as well treat it as an entirely new fan base, except maybe whatever they can revive from OAK's last stint in LA. Or are there still a lot of OAK fans in LA so they don't care if they have to blow off the fan base in OAK?

LA fans have become fine with not having an NFL team, because what else are you going to do when the league bails on you for 20 years, only to use your city as a threat to extort more money out of every other league city? That doesn't mean that they don't want a team to support. People here want a team, they're just not willing to put up public money to get it done. And why should they? They know they don't have to.

Yes, there's a lot of irony to be had. LA is being used at the threat to get the smaller market cities to pony up public money to keep their teams, yet we can see LA has all the money they need on the private side to get a $1B stadium built.

Personally I don't see OAK raising the money to keep the Raiders in town, nor do I see SD doing the same for the Chargers. Andrew Brandt pointed out that GB is one of the most football friendly towns in the country and they only got their last stadium revamp approved 53% to 47%. How are you going to get OAK or SAN tax payers to cough up money for billionaires?

The STL situation as above seems to be a true wildcard. The owner is a multi-billionaire (he made a fortune in real estate and then married in to the Wal*Mart Waltons) so he can pretty much do whatever he wants to do.

Carson is a really interesting location, because it's south of the actual city of LA. It's right next to Long Beach (where I live), and Long Beach is on the OC county line. It's as close to Anaheim as it is to the city of LA. Anaheim will be a huge source of support for the Chargers if they move.

Yes, it does seem to be a location that can draw SAN fans pretty easily, but what about OAK fans?
 
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Oh no, we won't be able to watch the Raiders go 5-11 again this year...said no one ever!
 
25% of the Chargers' season ticket holders live in Orange or LA counties. That's why Spanos is so afraid of the potential for another team to move to LA, and has been threatening to block it. He's allegedly wrangled up enough votes to block Kroenke's move (although it remains to be seen if Kroenke cares; it would be pretty cool if he just said **** that and moved anyway). The reason why he's gone through all this effort is because he knows that the LA market needs to be unoccupied for San Diego to remain a viable home for the Chargers. Why? Because, going back to the first sentence of this paragraph, the team relies on the LA/OC markets even to get to the meager level of support that it has managed.

And this is consistent with what I've seen. I live in LA county, so I think I can state on pretty good authority that there are lots of Chargers fans here. More people care about the Raiders, but the LA market is so huge that, if even a fraction of people in the area become Chargers fans, they'll be in a much better position than they are now. It's San Diego that pretty clearly doesn't care about the Chargers. When I went to the Sunday night game a couple months ago, we outnumbered Chargers fans by least 2 to 1, probably more.

I think a lot of people are underselling the LA market here. The Rams had strong attendance right up until people got wind of a relocation because the widow who inherited the team was from St. Louis and wanted to take it home with her. USC and UCLA both get a ton of support. I am 100% certain that, even with two teams in LA, neither would have the attendance/local support problems that the Chargers are having down in San Diego. LA fans have become fine with not having an NFL team, because what else are you going to do when the league bails on you for 20 years, only to use your city as a threat to extort more money out of every other league city? That doesn't mean that they don't want a team to support. People here want a team, they're just not willing to put up public money to get it done. And why should they? They know they don't have to. LA is playing the long game, and it's clearly working. They're going to get a team, and they're not going to have to give some billionaire massive taxpayer-funded handouts to make it happen.

As much as San Diego fans have a massive inferiority complex that leads to them hating LA )for reasons that have never been totally clear to me, nobody here minds San Diego), a lot of them will stay Chargers fans. The 25% of their season ticket holders who are in LA/OC will actually have the team closer to them if it's in Carson. Carson is a really interesting location, because it's south of the actual city of LA. It's right next to Long Beach (where I live), and Long Beach is on the OC county line. It's as close to Anaheim as it is to the city of LA. Anaheim will be a huge source of support for the Chargers if they move.

I appreciate the local perspective, it was an interesting read.
 
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Yes, it does seem to be a location that can draw SAN fans pretty easily, but what about OAK fans?

The short answer is that they don't really need the Oakland fans, if it comes to that. The locals locals who are now in their 30s/40s grew up with the Raiders in LA. A lot of them are still Raiders fans, even though at best they get to see them once per year when the team travels to San Diego. If Oakland moves down, they'll be able to recapture a lot of those fans, but they won't be strictly reliant on them or anything. The LA market is just so big that they don't need all that much penetration to surpass the fanbase that they could get in Oakland, where they're basically splitting the bay area with the 49ers and getting the less desirable part anyway.

This is also what makes the situation so precarious for San Diego, in part. If they don't move, and either of the Rams or Raiders do, either of those teams will have both the new team goodwill and also a built-in multi-generational history that spans back to their previous time here. The Rams, in particular, have a fair amount of history here. I think it's safe to say that the large numbers of Chargers season ticket holders in LA/OC are pretty diehard; they wouldn't commit to making that drive every other week if they weren't. And that means that at one time they were probably either Ram or Raider fans. San Diego's losing a very large chunk of its fanbase if any team comes to LA, but an especially large chunk if it's either of those two.
 
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I appreciate the local prospective, it was an interesting read.

Thanks! As a native New Englander, it was really weird moving out here back in 2007, because I was really surprised to see all the random little fandom quirks and dynamics going on this area. There's just such a weird, convoluted football history here, that I can totally understand how misconceptions like Angelenos not caring about the NFL come to form.

Conversely, a lot of the locals here base their entire arguments on false equivalencies like "the difference between San Diego and LA is like the difference between Boston and New York!" If I had a nickel for every person I've laughed at for claiming that, I would have... I dunno, probably a dollar. San Diego is separated from LA by a military base and a quick down the 5 through OC. In terms of commute time, cultural difference, or historic rivalry/delineating, it just doesn't even register on the same scale. We're talking orders of magnitude difference. But socal is kind of a bubble, and while I don't necessarily mean it as an insult to say "they think the world revolves around them"... well, I'm sure it sounds like one. And that does seem to be the mentality here. Never trust someone from here to accurately represent this stuff, because they generally just lack the perspective to do so unless they've lived on the east coast.
 
Although, sometimes, English is a problem for me thanks for asking.

Meh. English is the hardest language. Especially when 1/2 truthed stories and leaks are involved...
 
I'm pretty positive that the only way the NFL gets a stadium and team in LA is if the Chargers & Raiders buy into this idea. The thought of having to expand the league again is just plain dumb. In order to add new teams, they league would have to mess around again with the AFC/NFC Divisions, and probably have to go into renegotiations with the broadcast folks both on Radio and TV. Plus, adding more teams further dilutes what is a nice, manageable number of teams right now.

Look at it this way: If the NFL votes for new expansion teams, it would have to have at least 4 teams come in at once to keep things balanced. They'd have to go back to the old 3 division format, with 6 teams in each division. That not only messes up rivalries and organization, but it also messes up the playoffs.

So I'm thinking that merging the Chargers & Raiders into one stadium is, in fact, the only doable way that LA gets the NFL back in town.
 
The short answer is that they don't really need the Oakland fans, if it comes to that.

Thanks for your comments. In the time since I read them I also ran into this article:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer...ng-to-la----whether-its-with-rams-or-chargers

which agrees with what you are saying. It's pretty long and pretty complete, but here's a few quotes I thought were worth posting:

I've been documenting for, literally, years at this point the amount of time Raiders owner Mark Davis has been spending in LA, his growing relationship with former entertainment mogul Michael Ovitz, his unwavering intent to get a new stadium there. If anyone in the Bay Area wasn't convinced that this was a reality -- with the prospects of getting a stadium in Oakland or thereabouts incredibly bleak and the Raiders viewed within the NFL as the ideal "second team" in LA -- well it now has to be ringing loud and clear.
and:
I continue to hear that Davis is seen as the most malleable, by far, of the three owners involved in this process and he's content to be that second team -- whether it means going with the Chargers, or the Rams. He isn't caught up in the developmental and real estate potential of these projects. He just wants some improved revenue streams, a chunk of money every season from suite sales and sponsorships and other revenue that a state-of-the-art stadium would provide. That's the end game for him: Keep his team, get to LA, and get the best second-tenant or co-tenant stadium deal he can get. And he's closer to that than ever.

And when you think about it, Mark Davis isn't like the current breed of owners that made their billions outside the NFL, his wealth came entirely from the NFL. http://www.chatsports.com/nfl/a/How-Much-Is-Each-NFL-Owner-Worth-10-206-847 says while he's worth $500m, he's actually the least wealthy NFL owner. I'm sure from his own point of view he feels perfectly justified moving on to LA. His daddy left LA because LA would not fix up the Rose Bowl yet Oakland would spruce up the Coliseum. I bet he'd be thrilled to finally land in LA with a new stadium.

The Chargers have been late to this party, spending 15 years or so playing nice with the municipalities, saying and doing all the right things, and not exploring outside options. No hardball. Then things changed in January when Kroenke announced his acquisition of more land in Inglewood and his intent to build.

"When Kroenke made his move in January it really forced our hand," as one Chargers official put it. The game had changed and the Chargers had no recourse but to get on the LA train or risk being left without a home in California.

So the author doesn't say that SAN was afraid of losing LA area fans, he says SAN was afraid of feeling they had to leave CA to get into a new stadium if STL and/or OAK ended up in LA. I wonder if you think that point of view is valid or not.
 
some times it works it worked for Kraft when he said he was going to move here in CT
 


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