Celtics 2024-2025 Discussion

[Real fan 02]

Sure they do. It is not at all unheard-of for a championship coach to be a goner only a couple of years later. * I'm not so much compelled by stats, though, as by an examination of Mazzoula's actual coaching practice. Once upon a time he apparently read that shooting a lot of threes will win you games. He seems at that point to have decided that was all he needs to know about strategy. As for tactics, his in-game adjustments are nil, his handling of time-outs and subs look like the result of a random number generator, and his asinine new age ******** sounds like the blithering of some vodka-soaked housewife who watches too much Oprah. Mazzoula blows. Deal with it, and hope the team acts accordingly.

* Check out the words of your fellow Mazzoulaholic: "... the NBA is weird like that... recent examples are Cleveland, Denver and Memphis... all had good coaches who had winning records and post season appearances."

Not that JM should be fired.. but I've put up examples of teams that moved on from coaches who were successful.. those organizations were.. Memphis , Denver and Cleveland. nothing is surprising anymore in sports. I can't stress enough that I'd love to have Malone as HC if a change was made..

Chilsom has no ties to Joe..

 

[RobertWeathers]

Doc? In the end, it was Garnett that won that title when he came in a brought that no nonsense we are winning attitude.

Coaches need talent and devoted players.

Doc was able to get PP, KG, and Ray to sacrifice their individual stats for the good of the team....and it worked.

Also, Brown for a bit next year? Tank baby, play the kids and get them some much needed game reps. Find out who can play with Tatum and Brown if you aren't trading Brown.

Next year is a wash.

 

[RobertWeathers]

When the GSW had thier run.. they were an efficient team.. obviously it helps having the greatest shooter not named bird on your team. But the 3 point shot was efficient. We gave NY the series they didn't take it from us.. we have shown times of dominance against them. Those game 1 and 2 losses are where the series was lost.

Correct. We were not efficient this year and the numbers proved that out. 3pt FG % was down. Passing was down. Open shots were down. It was systemic.

 

[Real fan 02]

Coaches need talent and devoted players.

Doc was able to get PP, KG, and Ray to sacrifice their individual stats for the good of the team....and it worked.

Next year is a wash.

Ray and his stubbornness held us back from at least one more championship.. remember Ray didn't initially want to come here when he was traded from the sonics.. it wasn't until we got KG that he was convinced.

 

[Real fan 02]

Correct. We were not efficient this year and the numbers proved that out. 3pt FG % was down. Passing was down. Open shots were down. It was systemic.

When those 3s are going in the Cs are dam near unbeatable.. unfortunately we know how it looks when they don't. Injuries, inconsistent play and just flat out fatigue is why we didn't repeat.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Sure they do. It is not at all unheard-of for a championship coach to be a goner only a couple of years later. * I'm not so much compelled by stats, though, as by an examination of Mazzoula's actual coaching practice. Once upon a time he apparently read that shooting a lot of threes will win you games. He seems at that point to have decided that was all he needs to know about strategy. As for tactics, his in-game adjustments are nil, his handling of time-outs and subs look like the result of a random number generator, and his asinine new age ******** sounds like the blithering of some vodka-soaked housewife who watches too much Oprah. Mazzoula blows. Deal with it, and hope the team acts accordingly.

* Check out the words of your fellow Mazzoulaholic: "... the NBA is weird like that... recent examples are Cleveland, Denver and Memphis... all had good coaches who had winning records and post season appearances."

Thanks but no thanks on the help, so you can put down the pom poms. Mazzoula is a joke. Please see my response to your other remark.

What a douchebag response.

You clearly have something against him.

No use having a debate.

 

[RobertWeathers]

When those 3s are going in the Cs are dam near unbeatable.. unfortunately we know how it looks when they don't. Injuries, inconsistent play and just flat out fatigue is why we didn't repeat.

Taking 3s is fine.

It's not fine taking them in the wrong spot on the floor with the wrong matchup, with the wrong person taking them and in the wrong offensive set.

 

[Real fan 02]

Taking 3s is fine.

It's not fine taking them in the wrong spot on the floor with the wrong matchup, with the wrong right person taking them and in the wrong offensive set.

Yep. And the ball not moving. What i started to notice in guys was the fatigue factor.. guys have been playing alot of ball.. go figure Tatum and brown have never missed the post season... will be an interesting off season for sure.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yep. And the ball not moving. What i started to notice in guys was the fatigue factor.. guys have been playing alot of ball.. go figure Tatum and brown have never missed the post season... will be an interesting off season for sure.

I think fatigue and injuries were major factors in us not advancing. Yes- we outplayed the NYK both home games but you can't say we were playing well. Jrue, Brown, KP, were not the same. Hauser was hurt. I think JT was trying to do to much and as a consequence the offense stagnated.

TBH even if JT didn't get hurt and we won in 7 do you think we'd get past Indy? I don't.

 

[Real fan 02]

I think fatigue and injuries were major factors in us not advancing. Yes- we outplayed the NYK both home games but you can't say we were playing well. Jrue, Brown, KP, were not the same. Hauser was hurt. I think JT was trying to do to much and as a consequence the offense stagnated.

TBH even if JT didn't get hurt and we won in 7 do you think we'd get past Indy? I don't.

To your point. No. Indy really impressed me witj how they handled the cavs.. the cavs have enough even without Garland to get to the ECF in my opinion. But yes, I just didn't have the same feelings on u getting back to the finals we got to the finals 2 of the last 3 seasons. That's impressive. Now everyone is a year older.. Jrue, KP, D. White.. I know one of these contacts are moved. Hauser? Jrue,,,? KP??

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The Celtics shoot about 37% as a team on 3s. So per 100 shots, that’s 121 points. In order to match this mark by shooting 2s, they’d need to shoot over 60%. Do they have anyone on the team even close to 60%? I doubt they’re even shooting that from the paint.

That’s the basic idea. It isn’t advanced analytics. It doesn’t mean the 3 pointer is always the best shot. It means it very often is, especially with the spread-style offense and lack of bangers on the team, and all of them are good shooters.

People who complain that the 3 is too risky because the team might be cold seem to ignore NBA history is full of off nights where offenses simply score way below their average. This has always happened, before the 3 pointer existed and before it was so popular.

Denver just got a 40 point shellacking in Game 7. I don’t know what to say. Basketball is a game of rhythm, momentum, and confidence as much as skill. **** happens all the time. It doesn’t mean the coach and philosophy are deeply flawed. There is no coach or philosophy that is immune from losing any given night. But I do believe the Celtics were blown out less frequently than any team in the league the last two years.

Edit: correcting my math…they’d need to shoot 56%, not 60%. Doesn’t really change the overall point, just closes the gap a bit.

 

[1960Pats]

I have a deep aversion to the sound of Doris Burke's voice. She shouldn't be doing men's basketball.

Turn the volume down a couple of notches. That works for me.

 

[1960Pats]

I think Brown could be a useful member of a good team, but I but I don't see him as the sort of alpha you can surround with "role players" and win a championship; and the league is now all about the alphas, the goddam "stars." There just aren't that many such players at any one time, though,so probably two-thirds of players given that role aren't really up to it.

I wish the league would somehow return to team basketball based on five more equally important players who know how to play the team game and would be unworried about the adverse effect of such a collective approach might have on their goddam "brand."

I frankly thing we are being offered crap basketball for the most part, played by athletes who, because so many of them are too-cool-for-school narcissistic primadonnas, I find it hard to root. I rarely watch NBA basketball, to be honest, and I am generally disappointed when I do. There is no more exciting sport than basketball when it is played right (except maybe for hockey watched in person), but five guys standing around for the first 40 minutes then reenacting the three-point shooting contest for eight minutes is a boring watch.

A few times a year I watch games at the local high school. Actual basketball, played hard every minute. Great.

I think it's time to drop the three-point shot, frankly, but no one will care what I think, which is fine: I am pretty much beyond caring about the NBA anyway, so the feeling is mutual

I remember Red saying how wrong the 3 point shot was and how it should be more points for scoring from closer. He may have been right.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I remember Red saying how wrong the 3 point shot was and how it should be more points for scoring from closer. He may have been right.

The 3 point line is basically the biggest gimmick in all of sports. I like it. I used to be a 3 pt specialist in high school. And if’s exciting. But as a concept, it makes no sense. Like, you take a step backwards, away from the basket, and the reward is greater, but the general concept of the game is advance closer to the basket. It really makes no sense. No other sport awards a team extra for choosing to take a more difficult path to score.

 

[1960Pats]

I think fatigue and injuries were major factors in us not advancing. Yes- we outplayed the NYK both home games but you can't say we were playing well. Jrue, Brown, KP, were not the same. Hauser was hurt. I think JT was trying to do to much and as a consequence the offense stagnated.

TBH even if JT didn't get hurt and we won in 7 do you think we'd get past Indy? I don't.

They got away with the 3 point strategy last year but the league caught up with them this year. That and the injuries did them in.

And now their hands are tied when it comes to Tatum and Brown who are both injured.

I'm sure glad they got #18 last year. The next one could be a long time from now.

 

[1960Pats]

The 3 point line is basically the biggest gimmick in all of sports. I like it. I used to be a 3 pt specialist in high school. And if’s exciting. But as a concept, it makes no sense. Like, you take a step backwards, away from the basket, and the reward is greater, but the general concept of the game is advance closer to the basket. It really makes no sense. No other sport awards a team extra for choosing to take a more difficult path to score.

One place the 3-pointer may have helped is at the end of games. In the old days an eight point lead was much easier to hold.

 

[Real fan 02]

The Celtics shoot about 37% as a team on 3s. So per 100 shots, that’s 121 points. In order to match this mark by shooting 2s, they’d need to shoot over 60%. Do they have anyone on the team even close to 60%? I doubt they’re even shooting that from the paint.

That’s the basic idea. It isn’t advanced analytics. It doesn’t mean the 3 pointer is always the best shot. It means it very often is, especially with the spread-style offense and lack of bangers on the team, and all of them are good shooters.

People who complain that the 3 is too risky because the team might be cold seem to ignore NBA history is full of off nights where offenses simply score way below their average. This has always happened, before the 3 pointer existed and before it was so popular.

Denver just got a 40 point shellacking in Game 7. I don’t know what to say. Basketball is a game of rhythm, momentum, and confidence as much as skill. **** happens all the time. It doesn’t mean the coach and philosophy are deeply flawed. There is no coach or philosophy that is immune from losing any given night. But I do believe the Celtics were blown out less frequently than any team in the league the last two years.

Edit: correcting my math…they’d need to shoot 56%, not 60%. Doesn’t really change the overall point, just closes the gap a bit.

Warriors took 27 a game in 2015 and averaged about 41%.. if the Cs got that type of efficiency going forward we'd be a better team all around. However 41% is a rare abnormality especially from low percentage shots.

 

[Real fan 02]

They got away with the 3 point strategy last year but the league caught up with them this year. That and the injuries did them in.

And now their hands are tied when it comes to Tatum and Brown who are both injured.

I'm sure glad they got #18 last year. The next one could be a long time from now.

It was 16 years in between the last championships as well. They should have won in 2010& 2023

 

[Real fan 02]

I remember Red saying how wrong the 3 point shot was and how it should be more points for scoring from closer. He may have been right.

Was that before or after pitino drove him out of town??

 

[UrbanCowboy]

I remember Red saying how wrong the 3 point shot was and how it should be more points for scoring from closer. He may have been right.

that's interesting! I hadn't heard it or even thought about it. Makes some sense tho. I totally support the original concept of the three pointer as "opening up" the game, but I think it's now made the game less interesting and it's time to consider another rule change.