CB2 proving to be a system position?

[patsinthesnow]

@MarkDanielsPJ In the final three games, quarterbacks have a 108.0 passer rating when targeting Ryan.

McCourty missed 2/3 games and looked like he was playing it safe vs. the Dolphins.

Logan Ryan's season passer rating is 68.7. He's helped shut down Demaryius, Marshall, and Hopkins when McCourty was over the top. He got abused vs. Marshall without McCourty.

Last year, Browner was an above average CB2 and this year he is the worst starting CB in the NFL.

2013, Dennard was a solid CB2. He's out of the NFL now.

Interesting to wonder how much the CB2 spot matters in this particular defense, especially when it comes time to decide on Logan Ryan's future with the team.

 

[Ring 6]

Not that it changes your point, but passer rating against is a horrific way to rate a corner.

 

[BobDigital]

It is clear to me Ryan gets more help than Butler but that is true of any #2 CB. Also Ryan has been put on an island a lot times and produced. He clearly has been NFL starting caliber this year and a pretty good starter at that. I have no issues with him as the long term #2 provided the long term #1 stays healthy. He will get exposed if asked to do too much but so will most guys.

 

[aluminum seats]

Think this shows how good McCourty is.

 

[oldrover]

Think this shows how good McCourty is.

This.

 

[Kontradiction]

Think this shows how good McCourty is.

Pretty much.

 

[primetime]

Yeah, it's a "system" only insofar as McCourty is usually providing help to the CB2, so this is really about McCourty rather than schemes. It's no coincidence that Ryan's worst games have come when McCourty was hurt or hobbled.

 

[PatsFan2]

It is clear to me Ryan gets more help than Butler but that is true of any #2 CB. Also Ryan has been put on an island a lot times and produced. He clearly has been NFL starting caliber this year and a pretty good starter at that. I have no issues with him as the long term #2 provided the long term #1 stays healthy. He will get exposed if asked to do too much but so will most guys.

Ryan has totally excceded my expectations I thought the Defense in general played well considering the anemic Offense we have been fielding. The Pats three and out Offense caused the Defense to be on the field for a very long time which took away from Logan Ryans and also the Defenses game. He received help alot but at times he was left on an Island.

 

[Sicilian]

Well, it also requires a Butler on the other side that the coaches trust to be on an island more often than not. For example, if you had two Ryan's instead of a Ryan and a Butler, the pro-bowl safety help would roll to the best receiver, rather than the second best CB (as one example, obviously coverages change up constantly). So in that instance, the "CB2" would be exposed more often if he's not good.

Usually when you call something a "system" position, it's because it doesn't matter who plays there, because the scheme covers up for a talent gap. In this case, it's more about the pro-bowl safety and pro-bowl CB1, and less about the scheme.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Ryan has been far more good than bad this season, which is not something any of us could say a season ago (granted I get the differences). He has really struggled the past three or so games, but so have a lot of other people. I feel Ryan getting beat gets magnified a bit because he has been so wildly inconsistent in the past (not year 1). Go back and watch how consistently guys are getting behind Butler, especially in the HOU game. He should have been beat for three (and maybe more) TD's in that game and Hoyer just missed. They're both young, undrafted and learning on the job. They've both shown they can obviously be starters in the league and should only get better with time.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Logan Ryan is what he is. He's a starting caliber ball-hawk (4 INTs) who isn't elite at man-to-man. So McCourty helping to double is a huge difference.

 

[primetime]

They're both young, undrafted and learning on the job.

Ryan was the 83rd overall pick in the draft.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Ryan was the 83rd overall pick in the draft.

Thanks for correcting me. I don't know why I was thinking he was undrafted. Sorry about that.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Logan Ryan is what he is. He's a starting caliber ball-hawk (4 INTs) who isn't elite at man-to-man. So McCourty helping to double is a huge difference.

Yup. He really excels in ball skills. He's adequate in man, but very inconsistent. He's awesome in zone, which is why for a while I was thinking they'd make a McCourty-like move to S with him. That could still happen if he sticks around and we get another #2. I really wish Brown was not on IR. He showed some good coverage too, and I would have felt better going into the playoffs with him as the #2 or #3 guy.

I honestly worry just a bit about the secondary going in to the playoffs. But they have shown they can play against top competition and I am very hopeful that they can elevate in the playoffs. I know Butler will because he seems to thrive in the big games/moments (as we saw).

This may be slightly OT, but I get the feeling Sheard will have a huge playoffs. I think the dude can be elite.

 

[DarrylS]

Wasn't it last year Ryan was labeled a "draft bust", imo he has progressed nicely and he is still in his third year..

Mucho progress in a very short period of time..

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yup. He really excels in ball skills. He's adequate in man, but very inconsistent. He's awesome in zone, which is why for a while I was thinking they'd make a McCourty-like move to S with him. That could still happen if he sticks around and we get another #2. I really wish Brown was not on IR. He showed some good coverage too, and I would have felt better going into the playoffs with him as the #2 or #3 guy.

I honestly worry just a bit about the secondary going in to the playoffs. But they have shown they can play against top competition and I am very hopeful that they can elevate in the playoffs. I know Butler will because he seems to thrive in the big games/moments (as we saw).

This may be slightly OT, but I get the feeling Sheard will have a huge playoffs. I think the dude can be elite.

Let's face facts. Against receivers 6-2 and taller, Butler and Ryan are disadvantaged.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Let's face facts. Against receivers 6-2 and taller, Butler and Ryan are disadvantaged.

No question. Same point I tried to make over and over when people were trying to hang Arrington for Matthews in the SB. Our stats based culture could only see a receiver that had not caught a pass all season. Never mind the fact that Arrington is like 5'10 guarding someone who was like 6'5. We'll run into a few of those in these here playoffs. But I still prefer NE in some form of man with help over the top because zone is still an issue with this team.

 

[RobertWeathers]

No question. Same point I tried to make over and over when people were trying to hang Arrington for Matthews in the SB. Our stats based culture could only see a receiver that had not caught a pass all season. Never mind the fact that Arrington is like 5'10 guarding someone who was like 6'5. We'll run into a few of those in these here playoffs. But I still prefer NE in some form of man with help over the top because zone is still an issue with this team.

Absolutely. It's a physical issue but also a technique one. This is where the combine dorks have their day.

Malcolm is a decent leaper, had very , very good make-up speed and plays with very good technique 99% of the time. That is why he is in the Pro Bowl.

While Ryan has had a VERY good year, he is not as good of a leaper, does not have as good make-up speed, is not a quick and against taller receivers he sometimes gets out of position.

BB said it best about Arrington. He was really streaky. One day he'd be lock-down, the next he'd forget his technique and get roasted. Ryan plays with much better technique and discipline. Not having DMC providing over the top help has not helped him.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Absolutely. It's a physical issue but also a technique one. This is where the combine dorks have their day.

Malcolm is a decent leaper, had very , very good make-up speed and plays with very good technique 99% of the time. That is why he is in the Pro Bowl.

While Ryan has had a VERY good year, he is not as good of a leaper, does not have as good make-up speed, is not a quick and against taller receivers he sometimes gets out of position.

BB said it best about Arrington. He was really streaky. One day he'd be lock-down, the next he'd forget his technique and get roasted. Ryan plays with much better technique and discipline. Not having DMC providing over the top help has not helped him.

Agreed 100 percent. I remember that BB interview where he sad that about Arrington . . . I believe it was the "Do Your Job" documentary. Everything you stated about Ryan is why I believe eventually there could be a move to S. Like DMac, he's better facing the play than having his back to it. I think we can win a SB with both guys, provided some guys come back healthy AND effective. But a matchup against PIT, DEN or even NFC teams like AZ (if we make it that far) will be a tough match up for them.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Agreed 100 percent. I remember that BB interview where he sad that about Arrington . . . I believe it was the "Do Your Job" documentary. Everything you stated about Ryan is why I believe eventually there could be a move to S. Like DMac, he's better facing the play than having his back to it. I think we can win a SB with both guys, provided some guys come back healthy AND effective. But a matchup against PIT, DEN or even NFC teams like AZ (if we make it that far) will be a tough match up for them.

Yep.

The good news is that there aren't that many in the AFC playoffs. The bad news is that they are very good

CIN- AJ Green- 6-4
Pitt- Bryant 6-4
DEN- Thomas 6-3