Cassel vs. the Vaunted Vet Backup

[apple strudel]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

ha, I seem to recall why I left this board back in 2001

You shouldn't quit message boards just because David Carr sucks. That's not the board's fault.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Garcia WAS A BACKUP. See Philly last year. See Brian Griese starting for Tampa until getting hurt.

Carr completely outplayed Matt in the preseason. Tho a sack machine, he has more experience than Matt and has stretched the field with his arm. See Andre Johnson.

See Collins WR corps. Collins can stretch the field with his arm. He actually makes downfield reads (imagine that!)

Garcia got ****ed by Gruden and he has Doug Flutie syndrome around the league. Talent wise he is a starting QB in the league.

The preseason means jack****. See O'Connell from this preseason. Matt hasn't stretched the field with his arm? Arm strength is not the problem, accuracy is and part of that is not having time to set his feet. 2006 was Carr's best season statistically and he didn't exactly set the world on fire.
Carr's longest completion was 53 yards, he had 25 plays of more than 20+ yards and 3 40+. Along with 41 sacks in his FIFTH year as a starter.

Sage Rosenfields and Matt Schaub are stretching the field with that same receiver, what is your point?

Collins is washed up, he is an experienced vet, but beyond that not much. With that running game there is no excuse for an NFL QB to posses a completion percentage of 56%.

But I get it, if a QB isn't completing 50 yard bombs every other play, then he must suck, unless he is David Carr.

Why don't we trade for Grossman, he can stretch a field with the best of them?

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

I think the overall point I am trying to make is that the Patriots were a Superbowl team with Brady and I believe they could be a Superbowl team without Brady....

Is it so wrong to think the Patriots could have a shot at the Superbowl, even with Brady out?

Is it wrong to believe that even a caretaker QB with real NFL experience could do more to help bring this team to the superbowl?

Is it wrong to think that Cassel hasn't shown enough to make me believe tht he is capable of being that caretaker QB?

Sure, the defense has been inconsistent, the OL has not been able to pass block or run block consistently...but really a QB can do a lot to hide those kinds of problems. Maybe Cassel and the team mature together throughout the season and all my fears were for naught....but when/if the Patriots are in the playoffs and they are down by 7 with 5 minutes left to go in the game and Cassel has the ball....will we feel like we have a shot at eveing up the game or will we just dispair because we know Cassel cannot be that guy.

You are correct, but none of them are sitting on an NFL bench (with the possible exception of Quinn in 2009, if he gets experience this season).

 

[Lampshade]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

To be fair...what other receivers exist on the Titans? Collins would be phenominal on this roster
The Panthers were missing weapons off and on last year
Cassel is not a sack machine?

Kerry Collins was not phenomenal on the 2005 Raiders when he had Randy Moss and Jerry Porter (and LaMont Jordan).

 

[Iron Helmet]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Garcia got ****ed by Gruden and he has Doug Flutie syndrome around the league. Talent wise he is a starting QB in the league.

Dude, he is a backup. PERIOD. And Gruden was willing to trade him before Greise got hurt.

The preseason means jack****. See O'Connell from this preseason. Matt hasn't stretched the field with his arm? Arm strength is not the problem, accuracy is and part of that is not having time to set his feet. 2006 was Carr's best season statistically and he didn't exactly set the world on fire.
Carr's longest completion was 53 yards, he had 25 plays of more than 20+ yards and 3 40+. Along with 41 sacks in his FIFTH year as a starter.

Sage Rosenfields and Matt Schaub are stretching the field with that same receiver, what is your point??

All 3 are better than Cassel.

Collins is washed up, he is an experienced vet, but beyond that not much. With that running game there is no excuse for an NFL QB to posses a completion percentage of 56%.

But I get it, if a QB isn't completing 50 yard bombs every other play, then he must suck, unless he is David Carr.

Why don't we trade for Grossman, he can stretch a field with the best of them?

My point is, Cassel is a less than ideal replacement. He has no down field vision, he is slow with reads, and is, at best a work in progress, or at worst, a sh!t show on wheels. We could have had better, and we could have got it over the past several years. Poor planning from a genius.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

At least the name fits.

 

[gomezcat]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Just furthur evidence of how many Pats fans are thoroughly spoiled by Brady and wining. The fantasy fans throw a tantrum when the team is not scoring 40 pts/game. Kinda quiet on that front this week, but wait untill Cassel has his real stinker of a game throwing 2-3 picks when he is the main reason the Pats lose. All QBs have a game or so like that. Farve a few more than most.

True dat. I'm not completely sold on Cassel but he is better than advertised and at least he knows the offence. In his defence, he makes very few stupid throws and seems quite accurate. However, he makes few great ones and some of those recent sacks are on him- not all of them though. He's OK and will do for this season.

As for David Carr- WTF?

 

[gomezcat]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

You shouldn't quit message boards just because David Carr sucks. That's not the board's fault.

. Ten characters.

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

You shouldn't quit message boards just because David Carr sucks. That's not the board's fault.

lol, was he a rookie in 2001? I want to say he was

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Kerry Collins was not phenomenal on the 2005 Raiders when he had Randy Moss and Jerry Porter (and LaMont Jordan).

lol

raiders
texans
cardinals

put anybody in at QB and they suck automatically...eh?

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Were you demanding Bledsoe get his job back or demanding they find a QB other than the young backup with no arm in 2001?

I was undecided, I certainly didn't think Bledsoe should have started in 2001 after Brady and the Patriots made the playoffs. But, I admit to having a soft spot for Drew, he gets a lot of hate out here.

 

[D-Money]

I wonder where all these idiots are who thought Cassel was a better option then Garcia.Garcia is starting and he is putting up yards with a ****ty offense in tampa.I can only imagine now what he would do if he was our starting QB.

 

[Wretch]

Would we even be having conversations like this if Cassel was replacing someone like Chad Pennington rather than Brady?

If Pennington had been our starter I can imagine a lot of people begging to start Cassel over him.

I think a lot of the Cassel naysayers are busy comparing a backup QB to a HOF QB who was coming off of is best statistical year.

This is going to be a tough year to watch because we don't know what is going to happen on Sundays with any certainty, like we have in the past.

I can't wait until the offseason and everyone calling for Cassel's head now will be complaining that we should match whatever offer Cassel gets as a FA, and he will get a signifigant interest in FA if the Pats make the playoffs,

 

[Nunchucks]

Pennington is a pretty solid QB, he doesn't have a very strong arm, but he can do enough to win games. He just takes too many hits and is fragile. When the Jets were starting Kellen Clemons over Pennington, I thought it was a joke.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Dude, he is a backup. PERIOD. And Gruden was willing to trade him before Greise got hurt.

If you say so, but he must be the luckiest backup on the planet, because everywhere he goes, he seems to start a lot of games.

All 3 are better than Cassel.

Based on what? At least put some effort into the argument, your opinion is not supported by fact. David Carr's last season as a starter - his fifth in the league - will end up being worse than Cassell's based on projected numbers at this point. And that was Carr's best season. Rosenfields is a tool that makes dumb ass decisions that costs his team games, hence why he didn't make it in Miami and why he can't beat out another guy that costs his team games with bad decisions with the Texans. You give an offense like ours to guys like that, we lose consistently 41-30 week in and week out.

Cassel (based on this season projected numbers over 16 games)

Att: 443
Comp: 293
Comp rate: 66%
Yards: 2920
TD: 16
Int: 11
Sacks: 66
20+: 27
40+: 5

Carr
Att: 442
Comp: 302
Comp rate: 68%
Yards: 2767
TD: 11
Int: 12
Sacks: 41
20+: 25
40+: 3

Schaub (based on this season projected numbers over 16 games)

Att: 586
Comp: 389
Comp rate: 66%
Yards: 4298
TD: 22
Int: 22
Sacks: 38
20+: 51
40+: 6

Schaub (based on last years projected numbers over 16 games, first year as a starter)

Att: 420
Comp: 279
Comp rate: 66%
Yards: 3260
TD: 13
Int: 13
Sacks: 23
20+: 33
40+: 9

Rosenfels isn't worth comparing given his few starts, that are spread out all over the place. But Carr, Schaub and Rosenfels have more game experience than Cassel. And Schaub started 11 games last season and his numbers weren't all world. And they all actually played in College, yet their numbers aren't that much better than Cassel's to this point. The Texans QB's are better at unloading the ball, but they also turn the ball over more, so pick your poison.

My point is, Cassel is a less than ideal replacement. He has no down field vision, he is slow with reads, and is, at best a work in progress, or at worst, a sh!t show on wheels. We could have had better, and we could have got it over the past several years. Poor planning from a genius.

No, it just shows your completely ridiculous expectations out of a backup. No more no less. Fact: the guy is 4-2 and has had two bad games.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

Well, Steve Young and Ron Jaworski were convinced after Monday night that Cassel has the tools to be "a very good QB in this league," and they see signs of improvement as the season has progressed.

How dare you say that! We here at Pats fans are much more inclined to take the opinion of beer bellied fat boys sitting back in their armchairs and passing judgment over a Hall of Fame QB and another former "very good" QB in his time! You should know better than that!

 

[A.C Vegas]

Iron helmet I have seen all of your posts where you bash Cassell. Earlier in the thread someone I believe it was Patschick said that if you can ame 48 better QBs AT ALL then your team has a decent situation at back up.

You have said they need a better back up so I want you to name me more then 48 QBs better then Matt Cassell BEFORE Brady got hurt.

 

[mgcolby]

Would we even be having conversations like this if Cassel was replacing someone like Chad Pennington rather than Brady?

If Pennington had been our starter I can imagine a lot of people begging to start Cassel over him.

I think a lot of the Cassel naysayers are busy comparing a backup QB to a HOF QB who was coming off of is best statistical year.

This is going to be a tough year to watch because we don't know what is going to happen on Sundays with any certainty, like we have in the past.

I can't wait until the offseason and everyone calling for Cassel's head now will be complaining that we should match whatever offer Cassel gets as a FA, and he will get a signifigant interest in FA if the Pats make the playoffs,

Every year that Pennington started/played in 10 or more games for the Jets they made the playoffs. Not sure how anyone can knock that, injuries are his biggest enemy.

 

[A.C Vegas]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

How dare you say that! We here at Pats fans are much more inclined to take the opinion of beer bellied fat boys sitting back in their armchairs and passing judgment over a Hall of Fame QB and another former "very good" QB in his time! You should know better than that!

You need to stop that Logic hurts there brains

 

[HaveYouSeenMyBaseball?]

Re: Cassel vs the Vaunted Vet Backup

If you say so, but he must be the luckiest backup on the planet, because everywhere he goes, he seems to start a lot of games.



Based on what? At least put some effort into the argument, your opinion is not supported by fact. David Carr's last season as a starter - his fifth in the league - will end up being worse than Cassell's based on projected numbers at this point. And that was Carr's best season. Rosenfields is a tool that makes dumb ass decisions that costs his team games, hence why he didn't make it in Miami and why he can't beat out another guy that costs his team games with bad decisions with the Texans. You give an offense like ours to guys like that, we lose consistently 41-30 week in and week out.

Cassel (based on this season projected numbers over 16 games)

Att: 443
Comp: 293
Comp rate: 66%
Yards: 2920
TD: 16
Int: 11
Sacks: 66
20+: 27
40+: 5

Carr
Att: 442
Comp: 302
Comp rate: 68%
Yards: 2767
TD: 11
Int: 12
Sacks: 41
20+: 25
40+: 3

Schaub (based on this season projected numbers over 16 games)

Att: 586
Comp: 389
Comp rate: 66%
Yards: 4298
TD: 22
Int: 22
Sacks: 38
20+: 51
40+: 6

Schaub (based on last years projected numbers over 16 games, first year as a starter)

Att: 420
Comp: 279
Comp rate: 66%
Yards: 3260
TD: 13
Int: 13
Sacks: 23
20+: 33
40+: 9

Rosenfels isn't worth comparing given his few starts, that are spread out all over the place. But Carr, Schaub and Rosenfels have more game experience than Cassel. And Schaub started 11 games last season and his numbers weren't all world. And they all actually played in College, yet their numbers aren't that much better than Cassel's to this point. The Texans QB's are better at unloading the ball, but they also turn the ball over more, so pick your poison.



No, it just shows your completely ridiculous expectations out of a backup. No more no less. Fact: the guy is 4-2 and has had two bad games.

Just maybe all these fair weather inpatient spoiled whining fans were wrong and Bill was right.

Can you imagine such a crazy thing? Bill is NOT perfect but he may actually have a better grasp of his team's strengths and weaknesses than you guys.

Do you like ice cream with your humble pie?