Butler & Saints working towards finalizing a deal (Thread now UFC Pats Fans Event)

[XLIX]

Signing the tender is pretty much irrelevant.

At this point in time, it would hurt the player and gain him nothing. So if that's what you mean by "irrelevant" then sure....

 

[RayClay]

He is a RFA and his agent is shopping him around as best as possible with what little ability theybhave to make a deal.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how that is "stupid." But I do find it hilarious that the people who call the agent"stupid" think the smart thing to do is sign the tender in March.

His agent convinced him he could sign a whopping contract anywhere. He can't. He has no leverage. RFA deals are scarce for a very good reason. the players team holds all the cards. Big compensation [#11 wow] and big dollars are big obstacles to a deal.

BB was an economics major. He knows what's up. Patriots can relax, they win either way. Any concessions are up to them.

Would you pay twice for something? That's what NO will have to do.

 

[XLIX]

No, if he walks next year, they get a year of his services at cheap money and a compensatory pick.

Losing him next year would be entered into the formula for determining compensatory picks, but it is hardly a guarantee they get a pick for him, and it would at best be a 3rd rounder the following year (and even that assumes everything falls perfectly into place).

 

[RayClay]

You can't franchise everyone. They may quite likely have bigger fish to fry with that tag.

Where did I say they would franchise him? Collins was in the middle of his last season. He's gone.

Oh, they obviously would get a fraction of a year if they traded him.

 

[Ring 6]

At this point in time, it would hurt the player and gain him nothing. So if that's what you mean by "irrelevant" then sure....

It wouldn't hurt him at all.

 

[RayClay]

Losing him next year would be entered into the formula for determining compensatory picks, but it is hardly a guarantee they get a pick for him, and it would at best be a 3rd rounder the following year (and even that assumes everything falls perfectly into place).

They have all the leverage. BB sits on the throne and waits for offers. Simple as that. He could be "forced" to take the #11 pick if it's NO.

 

[XLIX]

His agent convinced him he could sign a whopping contract anywhere.

What in the world are you taking about here? What makes you say this? We don't have the first clue what Butler and his agent are saying to each other. For all we know, the agent is saying to Butler "let's hold off on signing the tender so then I can shop you around but it will be a long shot and chances are you're back in NE in 2017 playing for $3.9M."

Would you pay twice for something? That's what NO will have to do.

Depends on how much I'd be paying. It's silly to say they wouldn't "pay twice" for a top-10 CB without giving details regarding NE's demands and Butler's demands.

 

[XLIX]

Where did I say they would franchise him? Collins was in the middle of his last season. He's gone.

Oh, they obviously would get a fraction of a year if they traded him.

Once the season begins, his traded value only goes down from here. So yes they could trade him during the season, but it would be silly to refuse to accept (for example) #32 from the Saints hoping you'll do *better* in October.

 

[XLIX]

It wouldn't hurt him at all.

Of course it would. If he signs the tender, he can't shop himself around, talk to teams without NE's permission, visit facilities, etc etc.

At this point in time, he gains absolutely nothing by signing the tender. He may do a sign-and-trade in the near future, but he gains nothing signing it today.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

They have all the leverage. BB sits on the throne and waits for offers. Simple as that. He could be "forced" to take the #11 pick if it's NO.

I'm in the "keep Malcolm" cohort, but if they make the deal with NO, they should only take the #11 and not the #32. Why?

One, BB will trade it for 2,351 other picks.

Two, it will drive Goodell and the Hater Owners (i.e., all but a small handful of Owners) crazy that the Patriots stocked up in FA and still ended up with the #11 Pick in the draft.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

Just read that the point difference between 11 and 32 is equal to the 28th pick (680). Wow. If BB did that alone, I'd think it irresponsible to his team, honestly.

This draft's deep at corner but you have a proven guy in butler. I wouldn't mind rolling with butler one more year.

 

[RayClay]

What in the world are you taking about here? What makes you say this? We don't have the first clue what Butler and his agent are saying to each other. For all we know, the agent is saying to Butler "let's hold off on signing the tender so then I can shop you around but it will be a long shot and chances are you're back in NE in 2017 playing for $3.9M."
Depends on how much I'd be paying. It's silly to say they wouldn't "pay twice" for a top-10 CB without giving details regarding NE's demands and Butler's demands.

I could list Florio and others but, you are right, I don't have access to any contract terms

Apparently, Butler’s camp isn’t willing (or able) to accept the difference between a player who hits the market unfettered and a player who still has one year to play before becoming an unrestricted free agent. The biggest money goes only to truly unrestricted free agents

Unsigned tender kept Malcolm Butler out of Brandin Cooks talks

New england doesn't have to make any demands. Unless NO gives the #11, NE sits back and NO would need to bargain. Butler has to rely on NO providing the money and providing a deal that they and NE agree on. Pretty ****ty position to bargain a big long term contract.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

I'm in the "keep Malcolm" cohort, but if they make the deal with NO, they should only take the #11 and not the #32. Why?

One, BB will trade it for 2,351 other picks.

Two, it will drive Goodell and the Hater Owners (i.e., all but a small handful of Owners) crazy that the Patriots stocked up in FA and still ended up with the #11 Pick in the draft.

Well it depends. Talent will be there at 11. If he moves down than he better get a 3rd rounder and not a 4th rounder.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Well it depends. Talent will be there at 11. If he moves down than he better get a 3rd rounder and not a 4th rounder.

Heh heh. I could even see him turning around and trading it back to NO for #32, a Second Rounder and a Late Rounder.

 

[Edelmania]

What do you guys think about trading for Jason McCourty if Butler is traded? He has a 7M salary this year then is a FA. We could probably get him for a mid-late round pick.

 

[XLIX]

They have all the leverage. BB sits on the throne and waits for offers. Simple as that. He could be "forced" to take the #11 pick if it's NO.

If NE refuses all offers for Butler, chances are they keep him in 2017 and lose him for nothing next year.

You can make up whatever definition for "leverage" you want but the above scenario runs counter to their organizational philosophy. By sitting on the throne and doing nothing, they risk losing an asset for no return (beyond entering him into the formula for a compensatory pick) 1 year from now.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

Heh heh. I could even see him turning around and trading it back to NO for #32, a Second Rounder and a Late Rounder.

That wouldn't be so bad. I would take 32 and 42

 

[Le Numéro Douze]

If NE refuses all offers for Butler, chances are they keep him in 2017 and lose him for nothing next year.

You can make up whatever definition for "leverage" you want but the above scenario runs counter to their organizational philosophy. By sitting on the throne and doing nothing, they risk losing an asset for no return (beyond entering him into the formula for a compensatory pick) 1 year from now.

The question is how do you value a year of elite CB play by Butler?

Is it worth more than what the Saints (or whomever) are ready to give us? If so, keep Butler and lose him for "nothing" (or sign him long term). If not, trade him.

Simpleas that. It is about value.

 

[XLIX]

I could list Florio and others but, you are right, I don't have access to any contract terms

With all due respect, it's silly to criticize and agent for turning down an offer when you don't know what offers he has received.

Most accounts say something in the range of 4/$28 M, which I don't blame him for turning down.

Unsigned tender kept Malcolm Butler out of Brandin Cooks talks

If NE wanted to trade Butler for Cooks, and NO wanted to trade Cooks for Butler, and NO worked out an agreement in principle with Butler for a new deal, then Butler would have been able to sign the tender and do a sign-and-trade.

It makes no sense to think all 3 parties came to an agreement but the whole think was prevented by the tender not being signed. If all 3 parties came to an agreement, then he would have signed it to push the whole deal through.

 

[kennyb]

That logic is dreadful. For all we know, Payton may well have communicated that he is willing to give up #32 but not #11, and BB may well feel that #32 is still better than one year of a grumbly MB.

I hate when people use stupid logic like that. If no doesnt sign him to an offer sheet, then ne has no right to the 11th pick. NO knows this. That's most likely why theyre not signing him to said offer sheet.