Browns trade Shelton to Patriots

[Tony2046]

Can’t agree on the DE’s being set. We have no clue what Rivers is, HT doesn’t stay healthy, and Flowers is good player, but it’s not like he’s dominating or anything.

We’d be foolish to rely solely on mid round level guys developing next season. We need further reinforcements.

I thought we were set last year at DE, then Ealy bummed out and Nink retired. Your perspective would change pretty quickly if Rivers doesn’t pan out.

OK. I agree. I stand corrected. We could use another LB/DE.

 

[maineman209]

Except one box....pass rushing.

Which we desperately need because we allowed Blake Bortles and Nick Foley to have a picnic in the pocket

Pass-rushing for a heavy-weight, run-stuffing, block-eating Nose Tackle?

Hmm ... let me look .... (shuffles through papers) ...

Nope. Not a box that needs to be checked for that position. You might want to try the undertackles or DEs for that.

 

[maineman209]

Regarding point #3 by Reiss, good thing we have the rookie leader in QB pressures at DT.

Danny Shelton gets us to more 3rd & 6+ & Adam Butler enters the field. Boom. Definitely another underrated problem in the SB was that Reiss said postgame Butler/Wise barely played since it was always 3rd & short rather than 3rd & 5+.

So nice to have a local guy like Reiss who actually understands what's going on down on the field from a situational perspective and who can (and does) break down film on his own.

 

[Tony2046]

Except one box....pass rushing.

Which we desperately need because we allowed Blake Bortles and Nick Foley to have a picnic in the pocket

That pocket just got a lot smaller.

 

[Wozzy]

I think you went from "A" to "Z" while ignoring every other letter in the alphabet. You seem to be ignoring some obvious things about your claims:


By points? Sure. By actual defensive play? That's a lot more debatable. This team frequently outplays its overall skill level, thanks in no small part to coaching, excellent ST play and the offense that changes the way teams have to play the game. But that's not really the issue. The issue is your comment about Brown and Valentine (and Shelton). For example, that 2016 Defense was tied for 8th (8-11) in run defense, per attempt. Do we have to just ignore that because you've got wood about Shelton and seem (so far) to be a ridiculously over the top sort of Patriots homer, or do we get to note that as something worth at least looking at when discussing the play of Brown, Valentine and company relative to the rest of the league, and the rest of the defense?

Well, yeah, but that argument works both ways. Talented players need help, but less skilled players get carried along.

Hightower was a huge loss. He might have been able to make up for some of the bad play in front of him. That doesn't excuse the play of others, though, as Branch found out firsthand.

And now you're trying to focus on one particular game as if it's definitive, when it isn't. But, since you went there, let's note that the defense you're using as fapping material played poorly enough that Brady had to lead the greatest comeback in SB history in order to win that thing, as it allowed Matt Ryan to enjoy an all too impressive 144.1 QB rating. And let's also notice that they were facing Osweiler in that Houston game, so it wasn't as if the defense had to pack a lunch and get dirty in order to keep that score low.

And here we have you setting up yet another straw man.

Points are how they tally wins and losses, in every other category (yards, 3rd down %) the 2016 defense was still extraordinarily good. 2/3rds of that defensive line didn't play in this last Super Bowl due to injury or age depending on how you view Branch.

Since Bill Polian enacted "illegal touching" rules the offense has a decided advantage over defense, the days of dominant defenses are over. The lone exception maybe when the league allowed the Broncos to hold and grab so Peyton Manning could win another ring, it takes collusion by the NFL to mount a dominant defense now.

"Football is a TEAM game" is not negotiable, you say I can't use one playoff game for example when, had they lost that game we have one less ring. Brady threw a pretty horrible pick six in that Super Bowl against the Falcons, he needed the defense to play well to mount a comeback... TEAM.

Nick Foles is a Super Bowl Champion because if you have the best offensive and defensive lines you can get by with an average QB.

And I'm not sure you're using "straw man" correctly.

Like I said, we can agree to disagree.

 

[maineman209]

And I'm not sure you're using "straw man" correctly.

Probably misplaced his lighter at an inopportune moment . Been there, done that.

 

[captain stone]

Malcolm Brown and Vincent Valentine were in the rotation of the #1 ranked 2016 Super Bowl champion defense, add Shelton to that and you have magic.
Oh yeah, both of those guys were drafted, Valentine if healthy was a straight up steal in the 3rd round.

I wanted to give this pollyanna post both a Funny and a Disagree.


And before this happens,

Let's try to remember that Danny Shelton was available for a reason.

 

[patfanken]

Anyway, I like is first step. I didn't like the way he played "tall" at times and lost leverage, but that's a fixable technique issue.

Yeah, that's the first thing I noticed when I watched the clip. Good low stance, great first step and then he negates most of that advantage by standing straight up and titty fighting with the C. Imagine the inside pressure he would bring if he kept low like Wise often did when he was effective.

Never underestimate the power of good coaching, even on the NFL level

As far as the trade goes, I think it was a great start. Building depth on the DL had to be one of BB's key focuses this offseason. This will allow more alignment flexibility as the Pats switch from 3-4 to 4-3 week to week or even series to series. Having Brown and Guy as 3-4 DE's will make it the first time in years the Pats will have legitimate big bodies for this role in years. Also, don't underestimate the value of VV coming back to the mix. He did a super job as a rookie.

As for the value of the trade, losing a very low 3rd round pick NEXT year for a higher 5th THIS year isn't much of a loss for what Shelton potentially brings to the table in our defense.

This trade won't move the hype needle much beyond NE, but I think it will significantly help the overall defense. Even if he just becomes a solid run stopping Alan Branch (2016 version) replacement this will be a good move like Guy was. But Reiss's comments were enlightening. He is smart, loves the game, practices hard, and above all, has been consistently healthy.

I see the rest of the offseason focussing on mid level shots at FA LB's and CB's with speed as the emphasis. As far as the draft. I would be surprised if any have an immediate impact. I just hope we don't spend any of our higher draft capital on the WR, RB, OL, or S positions. I'm hoping for DE's, LB's, and CB's, along with some QB that no one ever heard of outside of the draft forum

As far as our own FA's. I would put a priority on Solder and MFlowers, and I'd love to re-sign Lewis, though that looks like it isn't going to happen.

 

[maineman209]

Yeah, that's the first thing I noticed when I watched the clip. Good low stance, great first step and then he negates most of that advantage by standing straight up and titty fighting with the C. Imagine the inside pressure he would bring if he kept low like Wise often did when he was effective.

Never underestimate the power of good coaching, even on the NFL level

As far as the trade goes, I think it was a great start. Building depth on the DL had to be one of BB's key focuses this offseason. This will allow more alignment flexibility as the Pats switch from 3-4 to 4-3 week to week or even series to series. Having Brown and Guy as 3-4 DE's will make it the first time in years the Pats will have legitimate big bodies for this role in years. Also, don't underestimate the value of VV coming back to the mix. He did a super job as a rookie.

As for the value of the trade, losing a very low 3rd round pick NEXT year for a higher 5th THIS year isn't much of a loss for what Shelton potentially brings to the table in our defense.

This trade won't move the hype needle much beyond NE, but I think it will significantly help the overall defense. Even if he just becomes a solid run stopping Alan Branch (2016 version) replacement this will be a good move like Guy was. But Reiss's comments were enlightening. He is smart, loves the game, practices hard, and above all, has been consistently healthy.

I see the rest of the offseason focussing on mid level shots at FA LB's and CB's with speed as the emphasis. As far as the draft. I would be surprised if any have an immediate impact. I just hope we don't spend any of our higher draft capital on the WR, RB, OL, or S positions. I'm hoping for DE's, LB's, and CB's, along with some QB that no one ever heard of outside of the draft forum

As far as our own FA's. I would put a priority on Solder and MFlowers, and I'd love to re-sign Lewis, though that looks like it isn't going to happen.

99% agree

The 1% would be an opportunistic, high-pick investment in a safety since, after McCourty and Chung (both turning 31 during 2018 Camp), there's really only Harmon and Richards.

My take is that, since the Pats safeties appear to be the lynchpins in the defense's sophisticated coverage schemes, it may take awhile to develop a McCourty/Chung replacement - even beginning with a relatively high-end rookie, so it would seem prudent to start now if the chance presents itself.

 

[50-yard-line]

so basically triple the catches, double the yards vs PD who was playing with the 12.... so yeah better than Dorsett by a mile

so let me guess, he makes up for it by blocking?

Dorsett was behind Cooks. Didn't get the opportunities (snap count, targets) Gabriel did.

Gabriel was often Atlanta's #2 or #3 option, with Julio Jones taking double-coverage all over the field on every play. Look at their 2016 seasons...they're not far apart at all. And Matt Ryan's isn't chopped liver, you know?

Grass is greener, until it's not. The Pats would be insane to throw any money at Gabriel right now.

 

[Love The Drake]

Think the Texans would deal Jalen Strong?

 

[maineman209]

Think the Texans would deal Jalen Strong?

Highly doubtful, since the Jags claimed him off waivers from the Texans last September.

Why are folks even interested in WRs for the Pats at the moment?

 

[50-yard-line]

Highly doubtful, since the Jags claimed him off waivers from the Texans last September.

Why are folks even interested in WRs for the Pats at the moment?

If Kenny Britt wasn't on the team, same folks would be asking about him in every thread.

The only WR the Pats should be looking at right now is Danny Amendola. They've got more pressing needs than to try to bolster a unit that put up over 500 yards in the air in the Superbowl. RB is a much more pressing need. LT might be THE pressing need, and the defense could use a #2 CB and at least one LB...

EDIT: And I forgot, WITH Mitchell back and with Britt and Dorsett there through camp. They might be cutting someone better than half the names thrown around as "gets."

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Highly doubtful, since the Jags claimed him off waivers from the Texans last September.

Why are folks even interested in WRs for the Pats at the moment?

Chris cannot go more than a day or two without bringing up a wide receiver that he likes. There would be 26 receivers on the roster if he had his druthers. It's a strange obsession he seems to be aware of but unable to help.

 

[BTTA]

Even trading Cooks leaves the Pats with Hogan, Edelman, Mitchell, Britt and Dorsett - and I hope Amendola comes back. Even mediocre receivers are pretty expensive on the market.
EDIT: And I really don't see them trading Cooks.

I posted this elsewhere, to make the point that the Pats are actually weak at WR coming into this year, if they trade Cooks:

So next year the Pats get Cooks at a little more than half his market rate, and with only more production ahead of him given the familiarity with Brady and the system, and that it will be a contract year.

And they will have a WR corps without a single other receiver under contract that is coming into the season healthy and that has demonstrated success in the system. Not a single one. And with the possibility of being Gronk-less.

So you can give that up by trading him for a 3rd round pick, because his trade value is as a one year rental. Or, you can solidify the WR corps by keeping him for the final year and build the rest around him, and then get a comp pick if he leaves as a free agent, which would probably be a 4th rounder.

 

[Wozzy]

I wanted to give this pollyanna post both a Funny and a Disagree.

Let's try to remember that Danny Shelton was available for a reason.

Danny Shelton was available because Cleveland is a dumpster fire.

 

[50-yard-line]

I posted this elsewhere, to make the point that the Pats are actually weak at WR coming into this year, if they trade Cooks:

So next year the Pats get Cooks at a little more than half his market rate, and with only more production ahead of him given the familiarity with Brady and the system, and that it will be a contract year.

And they will have a WR corps without a single other receiver under contract that is coming into the season healthy and that has demonstrated success in the system. Not a single one. And with the possibility of being Gronk-less.

So you can give that up by trading him for a 3rd round pick, because his trade value is as a one year rental. Or, you can solidify the WR corps by keeping him for the final year and build the rest around him, and then get a comp pick if he leaves as a free agent, which would probably be a 4th rounder.

Hogan, Mitchell, and Edelman all come back healthy - or would you cut one of them to make room for GenericWRX?

None of the names being thrown around have demonstrated success in the system, either, by the way.

Yeah, DON'T trade Cooks - been saying that from the beginning. DO SIGN Danny Amendola back.

But with Hogan, Jules, Cooks, DA, Mitchell, Britt, and Dorsett, why the hell would they look elsewhere - I mean, unless an absolute monster fell into their lap?

 

[Uptown]

Defense, Defense, Defense a RB...and MAYBE a TE (depending on how things play out).

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Sorry, really. I'd intended to follow that line with a but the cat decided it was leap-on-the-lap time and he stuck the landing. Bloody literally.

Who?

 

[SammyBlueCat]

He has an Instagram page for his dogs: Moni Juicy, Mojo & Juju (@the_furry_sheltons) • Instagram photos and videos

One example:

Time for me to leave immediately...