Browns trade Shelton to Patriots

[Jlaff]

I wanted to give this pollyanna post both a Funny and a Disagree.


And before this happens,

Let's try to remember that Danny Shelton was available for a reason.

I think I finally learned not to get too excited over expectations created in free agency after last year. And that was hard, because the after effects of the Moss pickup lingered with me for years, I thought every new FA would have homerun potential. But as Brady and Belichick always say, every year is different.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Yeah, that's the first thing I noticed when I watched the clip. Good low stance, great first step and then he negates most of that advantage by standing straight up and titty fighting with the C. Imagine the inside pressure he would bring if he kept low like Wise often did when he was effective.

Never underestimate the power of good coaching, even on the NFL level

I'm hoping for DE's, LB's, and CB's, along with some QB that no one ever heard of outside of the draft forum

As far as our own FA's. I would put a priority on Solder and MFlowers, and I'd love to re-sign Lewis, though that looks like it isn't going to happen.

Agree with everything here Ken, solid analysis per usual. Shelton definitely gets too high on a number of the clips I saw, but as you say that's fixable. Brendan Daly has done a good job as defensive line coach. Shelton is so strong and explosive with his first step that I think he will be able to get the most out of him. A smart, hard working, positive energy young player is a great guy to bring in and should fill a huge need.

 

[maineman209]

Who?

Our household Lord & Master, Tarzan the Magnificat, by whose will the Sun and myself are caused to rise in the morning (usually me first, by an hour or two), and who is fed bite-sized pieces of sliced deli ham at least twice a day.

That's who.

 

[captain stone]

Danny Shelton was available because Cleveland is a dumpster fire.

Not any longer; they have a genuine Football Guy running things now, not a strange little Ivy League balls-n-sticks nerd...and it was the Football Guy who wanted to trade Shelton.

 

[Ivan]

They are basically dropping down about 40 places in the draft in 2019 and getting Shelton, that’s a great move, period,

 

[signbabybrady]

They are basically dropping down about 40 places in the draft in 2019 and getting Shelton, that’s a great move, period,

Actually it's more like they they are dropping down about 40 places in the draft in 2019 and getting Shelton then flipped that 2019 pick for one this year.

 

[Tony2046]

Danny Shelton was available because Cleveland is a dumpster fire.

Maybe but imo if the Browns are focusing on a 4-3 base they want lighter and faster DT's. Aggressive one gapping type players. Shelton isn't that so they traded him. Good for them and great for us.

Edit to clear up the confusion.

 

[Ivan]

Maybe but imo if they're focusing on a 4-3 base they want lighter and faster DT's. Aggressive one gapping type players. Shelton isn't that so they traded him. Good for them and great for us.

I think they are going the other way. Their LB’s don’t fit a 4-3 base, and although they are essentially a sub defense I think they are going more 3-4 base and running their sub packages out of that. Shelton and Valentine as NT’s, Brown, Guy, and Wise as 5 techniques, and mixing in edge players like Flowers, Rivers, And now Hightower, who they can get after the QB more than he could as a 4-3LB.

 

[Tony2046]

Agree with everything here Ken, solid analysis per usual. Shelton definitely gets too high on a number of the clips I saw, but as you say that's fixable. Brendan Daly has done a good job as defensive line coach. Shelton is so strong and explosive with his first step that I think he will be able to get the most out of him. A smart, hard working, positive energy young player is a great guy to bring in and should fill a huge need.

@patfanken

I wonder if part of him getting too high has something to do with how he's watching his gaps. Of the film I've watched he was always looking to see what was going on pre snap and continued looking for the ball post snap. So maybe standing too tall is a symptom of how he's looking for the ball.

I've also seen when he sees where the ball is going he can quickly shed his blocker by either going low or with an arm whip etc...

 

[Tony2046]

I think they are going the other way. Their LB’s don’t fit a 4-3 base, and although they are essentially a sub defense I think they are going more 3-4 base and running their sub packages out of that. Shelton and Valentine as NT’s, Brown, Guy, and Wise as 5 techniques, and mixing in edge players like Flowers, Rivers, And now Hightower, who they can get after the QB more than he could as a 4-3LB.

No. I meant the Browns traded Shelton because of going to a 4-3 base.

But you're exactly right about the Patriots.

 

[supafly]

Our household Lord & Master, Tarzan the Magnificat, by whose will the Sun and myself are caused to rise in the morning.

I’ve been wondering what happened to Andy Johnson lately. Glad to see that he’s in good hands, and that he’s been well taken care of.
Ironically, neither you nor I will ever see his response.

(It's all in good fun, AJ. “Your anger is a gift.” )

 

[BTTA]

Hogan, Mitchell, and Edelman all come back healthy - or would you cut one of them to make room for GenericWRX?

None of the names being thrown around have demonstrated success in the system, either, by the way.

Yeah, DON'T trade Cooks - been saying that from the beginning. DO SIGN Danny Amendola back.

But with Hogan, Jules, Cooks, DA, Mitchell, Britt, and Dorsett, why the hell would they look elsewhere - I mean, unless an absolute monster fell into their lap?

Not sure why you are asking me if I'd cut one of the guys under contract, when I'm pointing out how vulnerable the position is if the Pats cut Cooks? I lost your logic somewhere.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

I think this is a HUGE move for the Patriots.

Our run defense was terrible last year. We barely beat the Jaguars, and Philly did whatever they wanted because the D couldnt stop the run which set up PA and RPO.

Shelton has Pro Bowl potential. DT/NT usually take 2-3 years to develop so we're getting him at the perfect time. I think he will be one of the most important pieces on our defense.

 

[50-yard-line]

Not sure why you are asking me if I'd cut one of the guys under contract, when I'm pointing out how vulnerable the position is if the Pats cut Cooks? I lost your logic somewhere.

I don't, either, as I was responding to someone else...and not even in this particular thread. Or I'm getting senile.

 

[Ring 6]

I think this is a HUGE move for the Patriots.

Our run defense was terrible last year. We barely beat the Jaguars, and Philly did whatever they wanted because the D couldnt stop the run which set up PA and RPO.

Shelton has Pro Bowl potential. DT/NT usually take 2-3 years to develop so we're getting him at the perfect time. I think he will be one of the most important pieces on our defense.

And the run d affects the pass d.
We want to pkay nickel base. And we want to play it without cheating to cover a weak front 6.
On 2016 we were the #1 defense in the nfl and the run defense was great. In 2017 the run defense just wasn’t good enough to stop the run from nickel because we replaced a dominant branch with a jag in guy and one of the top 3 LBs in the nfl was replaced by a slew of nobodies.
With Hightower back and if Shelton can play like branch of 2016 everything changes.

 

[BTTA]

I don't, either, as I was responding to someone else...and not even in this particular thread. Or I'm getting senile.

And all of this could be true at once!
Welcome to the club.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

How about picking up Haloti Ngata now on a 1 year deal.

 

[patfanken]

@patfanken

I wonder if part of him getting too high has something to do with how he's watching his gaps. Of the film I've watched he was always looking to see what was going on pre snap and continued looking for the ball post snap. So maybe standing too tall is a symptom of how he's looking for the ball.

I've also seen when he sees where the ball is going he can quickly shed his blocker by either going low or with an arm whip etc...

DLmen get their reads in several ways. The first step of the offensive lineman and where he tends to put his hat is the most reliable read. But that was back in the day when OL's fired out low and tried to get their heads between the DLman and the play. Nowadays the OL's tend to stand straight up too and thus you have to get your read from the titty blocking that passes for OL play these days.

Back in my day, the eyes were the were the last progression in your read. The offensive lineman's head gave you your first step, then based on what you read, you reacted toward the play and THEN you looked for the ball.

At only 6'2 and as big and strong as he is, would be a leverage nightmare if he played lower. One of Vince's great assets, because he played low, was his ability to move offensive linemen into the play. And while Wilfolk didn't always get credit for the tackle, his ability to move the OLman was the reason the play bogged down.

I wonder why the Pats (and most other teams), don't allow guys like Shelton to simply bull rush C's on third downs right into the QB's face. Remember the C has to snap the ball before he can set. That's a tremendous advantage for a NT with a quick first step and a 40 pound weight advantage. If he just stayed low, he'd have a huge leverage advantage. Branch used to do this very effectively on occasion during his good years.

Just a thought

 

[Tony2046]

DLmen get their reads in several ways. The first step of the offensive lineman and where he tends to put his hat is the most reliable read. But that was back in the day when OL's fired out low and tried to get their heads between the DLman and the play. Nowadays the OL's tend to stand straight up too and thus you have to get your read from the titty blocking that passes for OL play these days.

Back in my day, the eyes were the were the last progression in your read. The offensive lineman's head gave you your first step, then based on what you read, you reacted toward the play and THEN you looked for the ball.

At only 6'2 and as big and strong as he is, would be a leverage nightmare if he played lower. One of Vince's great assets, because he played low, was his ability to move offensive linemen into the play. And while Wilfolk didn't always get credit for the tackle, his ability to move the OLman was the reason the play bogged down.

I wonder why the Pats (and most other teams), don't allow guys like Shelton to simply bull rush C's on third downs right into the QB's face. Remember the C has to snap the ball before he can set. That's a tremendous advantage for a NT with a quick first step and a 40 pound weight advantage. If he just stayed low, he'd have a huge leverage advantage. Branch used to do this very effectively on occasion during his good years.

Just a thought

Good stuff Ken. If I get some time I 'll post some video to discuss.

 

[TomPatriot]

DLmen get their reads in several ways. The first step of the offensive lineman and where he tends to put his hat is the most reliable read. But that was back in the day when OL's fired out low and tried to get their heads between the DLman and the play. Nowadays the OL's tend to stand straight up too and thus you have to get your read from the titty blocking that passes for OL play these days.

Back in my day, the eyes were the were the last progression in your read. The offensive lineman's head gave you your first step, then based on what you read, you reacted toward the play and THEN you looked for the ball.

At only 6'2 and as big and strong as he is, would be a leverage nightmare if he played lower. One of Vince's great assets, because he played low, was his ability to move offensive linemen into the play. And while Wilfolk didn't always get credit for the tackle, his ability to move the OLman was the reason the play bogged down.

I wonder why the Pats (and most other teams), don't allow guys like Shelton to simply bull rush C's on third downs right into the QB's face. Remember the C has to snap the ball before he can set. That's a tremendous advantage for a NT with a quick first step and a 40 pound weight advantage. If he just stayed low, he'd have a huge leverage advantage. Branch used to do this very effectively on occasion during his good years.

Just a thought

The C snaps into his set now. It’s one move, not two. OL stay high to make run/pass harder to read and to stay between the QB and the DL. With today’s athletic DLs it’s easier to evade an OL who fires out low and still pursue.