Brees ties Brady's SB completion record with 32

[BradyManny]

Re: Brees ties Brady's SB completion record with 32.

Last night, while watching the Saints, I couldn't help but think to myself "Kyle Orton could effectively run this offense".

Brees made some tough throws last nite, I don't care how far the ball traveled. It wasn't like his receivers were wide open all game, he had to get stuff going while Indy was still playing decent D. Only then did things open up.

 

[RyanP421]

Re: Brees ties Brady's SB completion record with 32.

Brees made some tough throws last nite, I don't care how far the ball traveled. It wasn't like his receivers were wide open all game, he had to get stuff going while Indy was still playing decent D. Only then did things open up.

I guess we'll agree to disagree.

My point is that Brady and Manning stand alone. If you care to disagree with that, than that's up to you.

 

[girlySaint44]

Re: Brees ties Brady's SB completion record with 32.

Hard not to be accurate when you don't complete a pass further than 10 yds away, and a vast majority of your passes are dumpoffs...

Not trying to take anything away from Brees, he played well, and is a good QB, but it's starting to get old hearing his name uttered in the same breath and Brady and Manning.

Not calling you out personally, just saying.


I mean, the dude had 32 completions for what 280? Kyle Orton style.

Just coming out of lurking to comment on this...

Obviously Brees' other accomplishments are what have some people mentioning him with Brady and Manning, although clearly #3. The main reason people wouldn't go as far as say that he was or could be on the level with those two was because he didn't have a ring, and now he does.

The Saints offense is not typically dink and dunk, but they did what they had to do to beat the Colts. Put Kyle Orton in place of Brees on the Saints and we are not a playoff team, much less a Super Bowl winner. I don't really care about the completion record in the SB, it doesn't seem like that great of a stat - and whether it was short passes that tied him with Brady or not, Brees typically throws lots of deep passes.

It's Brees being on top of most key stats for quarterbacks this year that has people elevating him to elite status (most TDs, highest passer rating, breaking accuracy record), it's things like him almost matching Marino's yardage record last year that has him talked about.

But you can't say he doesn't deserve to be considered #3 behind Brady or Manning just because he threw short passes in the SB. That's not even typically his style. He did what he had to do to win. He was patient and methodical. You can't ignore the type of play he has put up these last three or four years, even when the rest of the team wasn't so stellar.

Of course I wouldn't put him above Manning or Brady when you look at all three of their careers as a whole, but he had a better year than both of them this year stats-wise (yes, even MVP Manning).

And his play during this postseason run was fantastic.
102 attempts
72 completions
70.6 %
732 yards
8 TDs
0 Ints
QB rating: 117.0

I would say Manning and Brady are definite Hall of Famers while Brees needs a few more great years to get there. But as far as QBs in the league who aren't retiring any time soon go, IMO he is up there with them.

 

[girlySaint44]

Re: Brees ties Brady's SB completion record with 32.

Last night, while watching the Saints, I couldn't help but think to myself "Kyle Orton could effectively run this offense".

Just to add, you have every right to not consider Brees on the same level of Manning and Brady.

But the above is a very silly statement and as a Saints fan, I can only shake my head. 1) You can't judge Brees and the Saints offense based off of one game. If you watch the Saints consistently you will know what this offense is made of. The game against the Colts did not really display it. They played a certain way to win. If you watched the Saints/Patriots game this year you saw just one example.
2) To say Orton could replace Brees and the result be the same? Seriously? Brees is not just a game manager. Without him the Saints are a 6-10, 7-9 team.

 

[rbh24]

Couldnt have happendn to a more deserving QB that being said im glad he didnt break it.

 

[RyanP421]

Re: Brees ties Brady's SB completion record with 32.

Just coming out of lurking to comment on this...

Obviously Brees' other accomplishments are what have some people mentioning him with Brady and Manning, although clearly #3. The main reason people wouldn't go as far as say that he was or could be on the level with those two was because he didn't have a ring, and now he does.

The Saints offense is not typically dink and dunk, but they did what they had to do to beat the Colts. Put Kyle Orton in place of Brees on the Saints and we are not a playoff team, much less a Super Bowl winner. I don't really care about the completion record in the SB, it doesn't seem like that great of a stat - and whether it was short passes that tied him with Brady or not, Brees typically throws lots of deep passes.

It's Brees being on top of most key stats for quarterbacks this year that has people elevating him to elite status (most TDs, highest passer rating, breaking accuracy record), it's things like him almost matching Marino's yardage record last year that has him talked about.

But you can't say he doesn't deserve to be considered #3 behind Brady or Manning just because he threw short passes in the SB. That's not even typically his style. He did what he had to do to win. He was patient and methodical. You can't ignore the type of play he has put up these last three or four years, even when the rest of the team wasn't so stellar.

Of course I wouldn't put him above Manning or Brady when you look at all three of their careers as a whole, but he had a better year than both of them this year stats-wise (yes, even MVP Manning).

And his play during this postseason run was fantastic.
102 attempts
72 completions
70.6 %
732 yards
8 TDs
0 Ints
QB rating: 117.0

I would say Manning and Brady are definite Hall of Famers while Brees needs a few more great years to get there. But as far as QBs in the league who aren't retiring any time soon go, IMO he is up there with them.

You think you are disagreeing with me while you actually aren't.

It's my opinion that Brees is 3 behind Brady and Manning (I'd probably rather have Rivers as my QB), but whatever, we will say 3 just for the sake of arguement.

My point is this:

There are a lot of rumblings out there that the QBs are:

Tier 1:
1. Brady
2. Manning (these can be switched too, I don't care)
3. Brees
...........................

When it's my opinion that it's more like:
1. Brady
2. Manning
............................
3. Brees

Brees is right behind Brady and Manning, but he's not on their level. He's on the level under them.

Does that make sense?

 

[RyanP421]

Re: Brees ties Brady's SB completion record with 32.

Just to add, you have every right to not consider Brees on the same level of Manning and Brady.

But the above is a very silly statement and as a Saints fan, I can only shake my head. 1) You can't judge Brees and the Saints offense based off of one game. If you watch the Saints consistently you will know what this offense is made of. The game against the Colts did not really display it. They played a certain way to win. If you watched the Saints/Patriots game this year you saw just one example.
2) To say Orton could replace Brees and the result be the same? Seriously? Brees is not just a game manager. Without him the Saints are a 6-10, 7-9 team.

Cool.

I didn't say replace Brees with Orton during the season.

I responded to someone who said Brees SUPERBOWL PERFORMANCE was stunning. And I responded with saying Orton could have done what Brees did with that offense in the SUPERBOWL. Not the REGULAR SEASON. But the SUPERBOWL. ONE GAME. And I'm right. Kyle Orton could have done exactly what Brees did in the Superbowl. Again, in the superbowl.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

1. Brady
2. Manning

They've been doing this for a decade and consistency matters. Manning has been the more prolific passer, but then his team was built for that. Brady has been the better QB because his ability to adapt is part of the reason he won out of the gate and he's roughly 3 times better under pressure. Neither is done yet. Nobody will knock them off, at best one or two might join them, but to do so they will have to be pretty consistent over the next 5-6 years because their track record says these two will continue to be tough to dislodge from atop the top tier.

#3 Brees
#4 Roethlisberger

It took him longer because he's barely 6' and he was mishandled in SD and then injured and landed on a team that never won until they finally got it right organizationally. He's both prolific and exceptionally accurate, the knock was if you hit him he rattled but then don't they all... Ben is a flawed beast, and they won the first one in spite of him although he got them there. The second one he stepped up big. But he remains an enigma because he wants to be them but he's wired more like Favre. Still, both are certainly elite and can be clutch as we found Brees to be Sunday. Bottom of the top tier.

#5 is a tossup. Eli remains an enigma. He's consistently inconsistent, although for one playoff run he pulled it all together and somehow avoided the killer mistake. Took clutch determination, but also more than a little luck. But he's got a ring. I guess that places him atop the second tier. For now. He could inch into the bottom of the top tier at best, but just as easily plummet to borderline JAG.

Rivers is knocking on the door but because of his own maturity curve and SD's coaching/teambuilding ineptitude and maddeningly inconsistent play he may never win 1. Rogers is in a similar situation though through no fault of his own - the top of the second tier but certainly legit and still clawing. They've got the measurables tools, the intangibles are still in question.

Guys like Warner and Favre are difficult to quantify since they both may be mercifully gone now. Warner was certainly elite when he was on. When he wasn't for long stretches he was abyssmal. Favre was that way as well, and then there was the misfortunate record he also holds. Both probable/lock HOF'ers but never in the top tier in Brady and Manning's era although they were knocking just prior and they flashed a little on the back 9. Also atop the second tier while their swansongs lasted.

McNabb and Romo...don't hold your breath because for all the media wants to pronounce them elite they are flawed and inconsistent and have yet to win a damn thing although they do win some games and occasionally impressively and at times in stretches (Rivers could end up lumped with them). Middle class of the second tier.

Ryan and Flacco may be knocking on the door of elite or merely teases...it's way to soon to remotely say. Ditto the Sanchise. Cutler is a notch below them and the clock is ticking on him being just an overhyped guy with a big arm and uncoachable ego. Young would be hanging by a thread in this grouping. Who knows what they'll end up paying Stafford for... Bottom of the second tier for now where they could remain, rise or fall into oblivion.

Everyone else is a JAG, some managed better than others. Orton is in this group and to assume anything about a JAG he hasn't proven he can do is foolishness. A bust like Russell has plummeted into this group. Garrard can't seem to rise above this grouping. Neither did Leftwich and Culpepper flashed briefly then settled in here. Carr and Harrington never rose above this group. JAG's can win rings, but that usually says more about the team and the coaching staff and the circumstance than it does about them. Best they can ever hope for is inching into that second tier. Like Bulger did for a little while...before he slid back into oblivion.

 

[Jangles]

1. Brady
2. Manning

They've been doing this for a decade and consistency matters. Manning has been the more prolific passer, but then his team was built for that. Brady has been the better QB because his ability to adapt is part of the reason he won out of the gate and he's roughly 3 times better under pressure. Neither is done yet. Nobody will knock them off, at best one or two might join them, but to do so they will have to be pretty consistent over the next 5-6 years because their track record says these two will continue to be tough to dislodge from atop the top tier.

#3 Brees

I agree but only because of they've been here longer.

In another 3-4 years, who knows

 

[RyanP421]

I agree but only because of they've been here longer.

In another 3-4 years, who knows

Cool.

But right now we DO know. And what we do know is that Brady and Manning are on THEIR OWN LEVEL.

Brees is on the level under them. Still a high level nontheless, but again, not where Brady and Manning are. That's all I have been trying to say all along. Maybe I should have articulated it better. Just getting annoyed with people saying it's the "Big 3" with Brady, Manning, and Brees.

 

[PittPatriot]

Cool.

But right now we DO know. And what we do know is that Brady and Manning are on THEIR OWN LEVEL.

Brees is on the level under them. Still a high level nontheless, but again, not where Brady and Manning are. That's all I have been trying to say all along. Maybe I should have articulated it better. Just getting annoyed with people saying it's the "Big 3" with Brady, Manning, and Brees.

I don't get annoyed with the "Big 3" talk. I think Brees has proven himself through a difficult "prime" of his career. In fact, in his last 2 appearances vs. the TB-led Pats, he has absolutely blown out his opponent (2005 41-17 beat down when Brady told Schottenheimer to "worry about his own team" and of course this year's undressing the Pats received at the Super Dome).
He is as big a part of this team's success as Brady or Manning have been and deserves all the accolades and hyperbole being thrown his way.

While I love the "Manning chokes" talk, I do not believe that Tom Brady has been "exceptional" under pressure the way most of this board makes it out to be. In his last 3 playoff runs:
1. Looked terrible vs. the Ravens
2. Had a great (though unspectacular) 2007 playoffs
3. Ended the 2006 run with an INT late in the 4th with a chance to win.
4. Should have lost at SD in the 2006 Divisional game when he threw a backbreaking 4th quarter pick that would have iced the game for SD had their corner just taken a knee. Thank God for Troy Brown.
5. In 2005, Brady threw essentially a pick 6 to Champ Bailey for a 100+ yard return.

In short, Brady has been anything but "clutch" in the playoffs since our last SB victory and for that reason, I do not put him above Manning in their career comparisons and as a QB, I have no reason to put Brees below him - RIGHT NOW.
Any Brady fan that says Brees "dinked and dunked" his way to the completion record needs to check themselves - isn't the WR screen and the dump off to the H-back staples in our dink and dunk offense? How about 6yd passes to Mr. "YAC" Welker?
I hope when their careers are over, TB has 4 or 5 rings, putting him down as the best ever...but I think TB=Manning with Brees behind in the career comparison, but not so far behind at this very moment.

 

[RyanP421]

I don't get annoyed with the "Big 3" talk. I think Brees has proven himself through a difficult "prime" of his career. In fact, in his last 2 appearances vs. the TB-led Pats, he has absolutely blown out his opponent (2005 41-17 beat down when Brady told Schottenheimer to "worry about his own team" and of course this year's undressing the Pats received at the Super Dome).
He is as big a part of this team's success as Brady or Manning have been and deserves all the accolades and hyperbole being thrown his way.

While I love the "Manning chokes" talk, I do not believe that Tom Brady has been "exceptional" under pressure the way most of this board makes it out to be. In his last 3 playoff runs:
1. Looked terrible vs. the Ravens
2. Had a great (though unspectacular) 2007 playoffs
3. Ended the 2006 run with an INT late in the 4th with a chance to win.
4. Should have lost at SD in the 2006 Divisional game when he threw a backbreaking 4th quarter pick that would have iced the game for SD had their corner just taken a knee. Thank God for Troy Brown.
5. In 2005, Brady threw essentially a pick 6 to Champ Bailey for a 100+ yard return.

In short, Brady has been anything but "clutch" in the playoffs since our last SB victory and for that reason, I do not put him above Manning in their career comparisons and as a QB, I have no reason to put Brees below him - RIGHT NOW.
Any Brady fan that says Brees "dinked and dunked" his way to the completion record needs to check themselves - isn't the WR screen and the dump off to the H-back staples in our dink and dunk offense? How about 6yd passes to Mr. "YAC" Welker?
I hope when their careers are over, TB has 4 or 5 rings, putting him down as the best ever...but I think TB=Manning with Brees behind in the career comparison, but not so far behind at this very moment.

OK? I never said Brady was the clear cut best. Just happened to list his name first.. Him or Manning is a toss up and the arguement can be made for either right now.

But yes, Brees IS clearly behind them. The fact is, a legit arguement can be made that Brady OR Manning could be the best all time. Not saying it's true, just saying the arguement can be made. That arguement couldn't even come close to being made about Drew Brees and that ALONE kicks him out of any "big 3" talk. It's "big 2", and then everyone else. Drew Brees is at best just leading the "everyone else"


By the way, Brady is 14-4 in the postseason. With the last loss coming due to being completely injured and having literally nothing to work with on offense. I'm not one to make excuses, but that's factual.

As for your 1-7:
1.Injured, no offense around him. What did you really expect to happen?
2. 2007. Brady played well in the postseason. In fact, he gave us a lead in the Superbowl, only to have the defense allow a flukey ass game winner to the Giants. So calling Brady unclutch for that is a bit stupid, don't you think?
3. Yeah ok, and Brady allowed that epic comeback by Peyton Manning right? And he allowed Addai to march into the endzone right? Give me a break.
4. Cool, they won
5. Shouldnt have been a pick 6, Don't remember the play EXACTLY, but I remember there being some controversy about it being a touchback of some sorts or something. Ben Watson made a great play, but whatever. YEah, Brady didn't play very well that game.

So out of the 18 games, he's played, not ALL of them ended with QB ratings over 100...Cool.

And if you're referring to me abotu the dink and dunk comment. Please re read what I wrote and THEN come back to me. I said there is NOTHING wrong with it, and it works, and I'd do it. My saying that was in response to someone saying that Brees played a stunning game. I thought the word stunning was getting a bit ahead of ourselves. I think it was stunning, could have been a similar word.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't get annoyed with the "Big 3" talk. I think Brees has proven himself through a difficult "prime" of his career. In fact, in his last 2 appearances vs. the TB-led Pats, he has absolutely blown out his opponent (2005 41-17 beat down when Brady told Schottenheimer to "worry about his own team" and of course this year's undressing the Pats received at the Super Dome).
He is as big a part of this team's success as Brady or Manning have been and deserves all the accolades and hyperbole being thrown his way.

And he has been for...4 years. Small sample size.

While I love the "Manning chokes" talk, I do not believe that Tom Brady has been "exceptional" under pressure the way most of this board makes it out to be. In his last 3 playoff runs:
1. Looked terrible vs. the Ravens
2. Had a great (though unspectacular) 2007 playoffs
3. Ended the 2006 run with an INT late in the 4th with a chance to win.
4. Should have lost at SD in the 2006 Divisional game when he threw a backbreaking 4th quarter pick that would have iced the game for SD had their corner just taken a knee. Thank God for Troy Brown.
5. In 2005, Brady threw essentially a pick 6 to Champ Bailey for a 100+ yard return.

In short, Brady has been anything but "clutch" in the playoffs since our last SB victory and for that reason, I do not put him above Manning in their career comparisons and as a QB, I have no reason to put Brees below him - RIGHT NOW.

You're confusing clutch with perfect. None of them have been that. That would be a guy like Montana. Overall Brady is closer to that guy than either Manning or Brees.

Any Brady fan that says Brees "dinked and dunked" his way to the completion record needs to check themselves - isn't the WR screen and the dump off to the H-back staples in our dink and dunk offense? How about 6yd passes to Mr. "YAC" Welker?
I hope when their careers are over, TB has 4 or 5 rings, putting him down as the best ever...but I think TB=Manning with Brees behind in the career comparison, but not so far behind at this very moment.

I agree that it doesn't matter how you get there as long as you do. Based on that Manning is behind Brady and Brees is behind them both, as is Ben who managed not to lose one championship and actually won the other. That might put him ahead of Manning and even Brees except for their prolific regular season numbers.

The thing to keep in mind in comparing all these QB's too is three of them are within a year or two of each other age wise and it's highly likely none of them will have more than a year more or less than the others with which to alter perceptions going forward... Manning is 34, Brady is 32, Brees is 31. Manning and Brady have been elite for a decade. Brees for 3-4 years. If they remain elite the odds are no one will pass the big 2 and they will go down in the era as they are.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

FYI Brees' stats are better than Manning's since 2006. however, the media only cares about archie's boy.

 

[RyanP421]

FYI Brees' stats are better than Manning's since 2006. however, the media only cares about archie's boy.

Cool. Not sure if you're trying to argue that Brees is better than Manning, cause if so, you're nuts.

Aaron Rodgers stats were better than Brady's last year, does that mean he's a better QB? Come on, man, you're better than that.

 

[IcyPatriot]

That night he came off the field injured how many
people seriously figured that Brees would become someone's backup if he came back at all?

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Brees is good people. If anyone is going to tie it, I'd prefer him.

 

[PatsSox363804]

Cool. Not sure if you're trying to argue that Brees is better than Manning, cause if so, you're nuts.

Aaron Rodgers stats were better than Brady's last year, does that mean he's a better QB? Come on, man, you're better than that.

Why is it nuts to argue that Brees has been playing better than Manning the last few years? I watch every game Brees plays, and he has played at an extremely high level. Hell he just set a record for season completion percentage and won the Superbowl with an almost 120 QB rating through the playoffs. Brees is an elite QB in this league, as of right now.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Why is it nuts to argue that Brees has been playing better than Manning the last few years? I watch every game Brees plays, and he has played at an extremely high level. Hell he just set a record for season completion percentage and won the Superbowl with an almost 120 QB rating through the playoffs. Brees is an elite QB in this league, as of right now.

That's what someone here tried to say about Marc Bulger a couple of years ago when he was the most efficient and accurate QB in the league... for a couple of seasons...

Brady and Manning have played at a consistently high level over a span of a decade. That is what continues to seperate them from the best of the rest, which is a group Brees now legitimately heads up.

 

[PatsSox363804]

That's what someone here tried to say about Marc Bulger a couple of years ago when he was the most efficient and accurate QB in the league... for a couple of seasons...

Brady and Manning have played at a consistently high level over a span of a decade. That is what continues to seperate them from the best of the rest, which is a group Brees now legitimately heads up.

Yeah I must have missed the part where Bulger won the Superbowl without throwing an interception and outdueling 3 HOF quarterbacks.

Saying that Brees is on the same level as Brady right now doesn't make Brady any less special, and it seems like that's what people in this thread are getting at. No, no one is going to say Brees is the greatest of all time like some may say about Brady but was Brees a better QB this year? Yes. Was he better than the "MVP" the last 2 years. Yes, I think so. If he stays on this pace and wins another ring he's a hall of famer, maybe even without the second ring if he keeps up these numbers.