PATRIOTS NEWS Breer reports Pats are seeing Maye's progress

[Wozzy]

This ranking doesn't have Burrow as elite.


Hurts is merely "good" same ranking as Cousins? ehhh

That list is dumber than a bag of bildos.

Most "lists" are, but especially that one above.

 

[Wozzy]

We are defining "overcome" very differently. Burrow is still a successful starting QB who has enabled the rest of the team to have success despite said pressure due to the OL deficiencies.

It appears your definition has something to do with "must win Super Bowl" which to me has nothing to do with the aspect of assessing the risks of throwing Maye out there as the starter this year behind a suspect OL. It's a risk calculus - does he have the mental make up, that Jones obviously did not, to not only survive a poor OL, but consistently move on from broken plays and hard shots and be successful?

Quarterback is as much mental (maybe even more so) as physical, but physical and consistent pain can affect some of them - many permanently. Does this regime assume that risk to their #3 pick in the draft with the historical knowledge that this OL the past two+ years has been one of the worst aspects of the Patriots as a position group? Or do they gather more data on this year's OL (and the rest of the offensive team incl coaching staff) first before assuming that risk?

Just have to wait and see.

Joe Burrow got sacked 7 times in the Super Bowl, two games before he got sacked 9 times... in one postseason game.

To put that in perspective, Tom Brady played 23 years, his career high sacks in a single game was 7 and that only happened once in 2001. His next highest sack total in a game was 5... through 23 years and 333 starts. Joe Burrow has played four seasons. Joe Burrow has started 7 playoff games and been sacked 29 times, that's an average of 4 sacks per game.

And the notion that he has some inherent flaw in his game is absurd for one simple reason... his depth chart at OL has had a bunch of stiffs on it... bad players. The only reason those early 2020 Bengals teams were in a Super Bowl and AFC Championship games were because Burrow was elite and so were his weapons. Joe Mixon is one of the most impressive RB athletes in the NFL, Chase, Higgins, Boyd were great, they had good blocking TE's... and they had great defenses.

But it was Burrow's offensive line that failed them at crucial moments, sacked 7 times in the SB and 5 times in the AFCG... and Burrow not the only one with a gripe, what Joe Mixon did behind those terrible lines was superhuman.

Every QB struggles without blocking, Tom struggled, Mahomes struggled... nobody is beyond needing good blocking.

 

[PScottman]

And the notion that he has some inherent flaw in his game is absurd for one simple reason

I think you're confusing me with someone else - I never said Burrow was a flawed QB.

 

[Wozzy]

I think you're confusing me with someone else - I never said Burrow was a flawed QB.

Sorry, previous conversation

 

[sb1]

That list is dumber than a bag of bildos.

Most "lists" are, but especially that one above.

Not sure about dumb but I disagree with a few of those.

I wouldn't put Lawrence or Love on the "great" tier yet. Fields is a notch below "fine". Is Herbert really on the same tier as Allen.
They also need a TBD tier with Maye there.

 

[Wozzy]

Not sure about dumb but I disagree with a few of those.

I wouldn't put Lawrence or Love on the "great" tier yet. Fields is a notch below "fine". Is Herbert really on the same tier as Allen.
They also need a TBD tier with Maye there.

Lamar Jackson is the single biggest reason his team can't progress in the playoffs... how is he "elite" when he's not an elite passer?

Josh Allen can't seem to propel his team to greatness either but he's "elite," the Bills have been Vegas favorites and the most talented team in the AFC for like four years in a row now?

Brock Purdy led the entire NFL in passer rating, was 5th in passing yards, but he's in the same category as Justin Fields and Daniel Jones? Just silly...

Lists are dumb, list by pundits who don't know how to evaluate players are especially dumb.

Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert, Stroud if he stays on the same career arc, Rogers if healthy.... these guys are all the same. The difference in results is the difference in the teams surrounding them. The Chiefs are better than these other QB's teams. Again... list are dumb and it's a team sport.

 

[PatsFan2]

Patriots are already making big mistake with Drake Maye this offseason

The New England Patriots post-Tom Brady continues to make decisions like, well ... the New England Patriots. Like Bill Belichick before him, Eliot Wolf, the Pat

musketfire.com

I have no desire to see Biscuit Start we already know he's just average with his losing career record.

 

[The Gr8est]

Patriots are already making big mistake with Drake Maye this offseason

The New England Patriots post-Tom Brady continues to make decisions like, well ... the New England Patriots. Like Bill Belichick before him, Eliot Wolf, the Pat

musketfire.com

I have no desire to see Biscuit Start we already know he's just average with his losing career record.

You make the top pick in the 2025 draft sad.

 

[PatsFan2]

You make the top pick in the 2025 draft sad.

I don't want to be talking about the 2025 Draft in week Six that will be the reality with Biscuit. Just play Maye please and let him develop with the talents around him.

 

[sb1]

Patriots are already making big mistake with Drake Maye this offseason

The New England Patriots post-Tom Brady continues to make decisions like, well ... the New England Patriots. Like Bill Belichick before him, Eliot Wolf, the Pat

musketfire.com

I have no desire to see Biscuit Start we already know he's just average with his losing career record.

Musketfire lol

I guess Milton is "quietly winning" the starting QB competition...

 

[rochrist]

Not sure about dumb but I disagree with a few of those.

I wouldn't put Lawrence or Love on the "great" tier yet. Fields is a notch below "fine". Is Herbert really on the same tier as Allen.
They also need a TBD tier with Maye there.

Love shouldn't be in the great tier yet, and Lawrence isn't as good as Love yet. Lawrence is strictly middle of the pack.

 

[PatsFan2]

I don't want to be talking about the 2025 Draft in week Six that will be the reality with Biscuit. Just play Maye please and let him develop with the talents around him.

@rochrist Biscuit is a mediocre QB I had to get that off my chest.

 

[rochrist]

@rochrist Biscuit is a mediocre QB I had to get that off my chest.

You seem to disagree on Lawrence who has a career QB rating of 85 and 39 interceptions in three years. Hell, Mac Jones has a higher career QB rating and has thrown fewer interceptions.

 

[PatsFan2]

You seem to disagree on Lawrence who has a career QB rating of 85 and 39 interceptions in three years. Hell, Mac Jones has a higher career QB rating and has thrown fewer interceptions.

I'm still taking Lawrence over cry baby.

 

[sb1]

@rochrist Biscuit is a mediocre QB I had to get that off my chest.

Jacoby is a career journeyman backup QB. Not really any better or worse than anyone else in that role except maybe Fitzmagic.

 

[rochrist]

I'm still taking Lawrence over cry baby.

Sure, I would too. But in all honesty, he's been a lot closer to bust territory than the all-world we were promised. So far.

 

[KCSVEN]

This ranking doesn't have Burrow as elite.


Hurts is merely "good" same ranking as Cousins? ehhh

Pretty accurate list at the top, based on analyzing tape it's Allen, Mahomes and Herbert on 1 tier. Give Allen or Herbert Andy Reid and that defense and they'd be super bowl champs also. Stafford is elite if healthy, but that ship might have sailed.
Lamar Jackson plays poorly on tape every big game, maybe he's an elite regular season player, can't beat the good defenses so can't be elite. His AFC championship game was atrocious QB play.

Stroud and Love not elite yet on tape but they are good and with improvement have a chance.

Burrow, Purdy, Tua, again based on tape, are products of their system.

It's VERY hard to win Super Bowl without elite QB and there are so few,

Purdy almost did it with elite skill players, great defense, great coach. Still couldn't get it done.

Otherwise since 2013
Elite QB's won SB: Brady-4, Mahomes-3, Manning-1, Stafford-1
Non-Elite QB: Nick Foles

9 of last 10 Super Bowl won by one of the VERY few elite QB's in the league.

Very lucky we got Maye, the most probable elite QB drafted since Herbert IMO.

 

[borg]

Breer last week...

"[Maye] hasn't done a lot under center, historically going back to high school and college," Breer added. "A lot of his work [with New England] has been under center, trying to get him to learn to do that. When he ties it all together, you see the talent -- what they are seeing is elite down-field accuracy ... an ability to go through progressions ... and there's no panic -- and that's another thing that can help him get on the field."
Morse this week....

"Maye received the 2nd team reps ahead of Bailey Zappe but was very ineffective in the Red Zone with two picks thrown. One was clearly a misread. Maye led Antonio Gibson with a pass as Maye was seeing man coverage. Gibson saw it as zone, and stopped running, settling into the hole in the zone."

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Few comments from the last few pages regarding sacks, Burrow, qb play etc that @Wozzy @KCSVEN have been going at it over.

I've said this for a while now but it makes sense. I think it could be expanded on or worded better bc I'm not particularly articulate but playing QB is a lot like a barter system. It's a trade off of accepting pressure for explosive plays or ypa. And the best will have stretches where they don't take many of the possible negatives. That's few and far between but even the greats take L's.
Manning might be the best ever inside the pocket evading sacks but gave away a few too many int. Rodgers was a TD/INT god but ate sacks at a crazy rate for almost 12 seasons. Brady was the best at maximizing each area. Some guys will take safe > aggressiveness (check down, low ypa/depth of target) and sacrifice positive plays for no sacks/into.

Pressure is the main culprit that results in either sacks, int or effects ypa.
Sacks and INT are killers for different reasons. Sacks kill drives about 80% of the time. You get a sack on any down and there's a 80% chance (give or take on the year) that you're punting. Those are the worst things you can do as a QB. I would use a different stat but pressure directly effects ypa.

***QB's make a conscious choice to accept pressure for ypa, explosive/big plays*** This is why a lot, myself included. Believe sacks are mostly a QB stat. Not on the OL.

Russell Wilson had **** OL most of his career. The best he ever had was also the most sacks he ever took. Why? He trusted his line more but more importantly it didn't matter bc he was accepting pressure, expanding plays etc. Certain guys like Wilson, Watson, Burrow are always going to accept for pressure for big plays.

So you're both a little wrong. Thinking a better ol would automatically make Burrow not take sacks doesn't make sense once you understand the QB position. Sure a better OL helps, of course it does. It's not changing a high sack guy that plays a certain way. Burrow is very good at maneuvering and navigating a pocket. It's a pocket management issue rather than someone who just will always hold the ball too long looking for a big play.

If you don't have Lamar Jackson as elite you're wasting a lot of time "watching film." Great mof anticipatory passer, one of the more efficient passers in the game, handles more of an offensive % than any other QB. Has never had a loaded wr corp. You're on an island on there and not in a good way.

@borg
Maye has been under center a good deal on his own. Working out, being trained. All these guys nowadays supplement uc snaps in practice or on their own time. Granted not the real action but the familiarity is there for sure.

 

[KCSVEN]

If you don't have Lamar Jackson as elite you're wasting a lot of time "watching film." Great mof anticipatory passer, one of the more efficient passers in the game, handles more of an offensive % than any other QB. Has never had a loaded wr corp. You're on an island on there and not in a good way.

I'm not saying Jackson is not a good QB overall, he's just not elite and the AFC championship tape showed why. Also not saying he can't improve and become elite, he improved as a passer quite a bit in 2023, if he can take another step forward, maybe.

That AFC championship game, Jackson lost that game for them, terrible decisions, terrible everything a QB is supposed to do. I graded his game as an F grade. Bad after snap processing, bad short passing, bad deep accuracy, fumble prone, bad pocket awareness.
He's late in processing way too much to be called elite. He makes up for it sometimes with his playmaking.
I don't care who the wr's are, if they are open and he doesn't throw to the right read who cares who the wr was, that's on Jackson.

Example: His interception drive in the 4th, 2nd and 10 at own 11, he has all day in the pocket, I could argue 4-5 guys are open, 2 are 15 yards downfield but he tucks and runs for 9 yards.

He's an elite athlete, he has some elite playmaking skills, he's far from an elite thrower and processor. He's a much better passer in 2023 than in previous years but no elite QB shows all the flaws he showed in that game.

He had a line ranked by many as a top 5 line.

Allen, Herbert or Mahomes on that Ravens team they beat KC. Lamar is solidly below the 3 true elite QB's.

We'll see if he ever plays well in a big playoff game, he needs to get a lot better at processing and passing if that's going to happen.