Brady vs Mahomes

[amfootball]

As a Russell fan I laugh the same way with friends about either Jordan or LeBron being talked about as the GOAT of the NBA. LeBron isn't even the best in his own era, let alone all time.

I love Russell but the league was so different when he played vs Jordan. Also Jordan transformed the NBA away from the centers dominating to an offense predicated on the 2 and 3.

In terms of Lebron, I agree. I think Curry when he is all done will be the player that is considered the best. I also think Kobe and Duncan are ahead of Lebron too.

 

[amfootball]

Mahomes would have to throw a hell of a lot of picks to get down to the level of BrINT Favre.

Mahomes vs Montana is a better comparison.

Nobody compares to Brady.

I would not put Mahomes anywhere near Montana yet. Right now he is with fivehead, Elway, Favre, Rodgers.

 

[Guts]

I would not put Mahomes anywhere near Montana yet. Right now he is with fivehead, Elway, Favre, Rodgers.

Kinda amazing though he's in that company in short amount of time I will give him that

 

[amfootball]

Kinda amazing though he's in that company in short amount of time I will give him that

He's in the discussion but all of those guys had long careers with great regular season after great regular season on top of going to the playoffs almost every year. IMO, Mahomes needs to continue to lead his team deep into the playoffs and continue to put up top 3 stats every season for the next 5 years to really be in that group.

 

[1960Pats]

I love Russell but the league was so different when he played vs Jordan. Also Jordan transformed the NBA away from the centers dominating to an offense predicated on the 2 and 3.

In terms of Lebron, I agree. I think Curry when he is all done will be the player that is considered the best. I also think Kobe and Duncan are ahead of Lebron too.

Damn right the league was different when Russell played. It was much stronger then because the talent was disbursed among less teams. For example, Russell played close to 100 regular season games and 50 playoff games against Wilt and quite a few other HOFers that he played against in his 13 years. Jordan had splits like 30 or 40/ 15 or 20 vs players like Barkley, Dumars, Ewing, Rodman and Moses, while getting whitewashed vs the Big 3 of the Celts until they were gone.

And another thing. In Russell's last couple of title wins he was also the HC and finished his career by taking out Wilt, Elgin Baylor and Jerry West in one fell swoop at LA in game #7.

And forget LeBrick. He's played a million years and squared off against his "competition" far fewer times and lost to some of them, especially Steph Curry. He's the product of an incredible marketing strategy by Nike more than he is an all-time great. I guess it helped that he named himself King before he got to the NBA.

Since Russell played, all the NBA has done is water down the talent, even with the addition of some foreign born players.

I really like having this discussion about Russell. I feel the same way when folks try to say that Brady isn't the GOAT. Each of those players has the hardware and NOBODY else comes close in either sport. The only players who came close played with them.

 

[Guts]

 

[1960Pats]

I would not put Mahomes anywhere near Montana yet. Right now he is with fivehead, Elway, Favre, Rodgers.

Mahomes has 2 SB wins at a pretty early stage, which puts him at least on track to catch Montana. He already passed the Favre-Rodgers duo and Elway wasn't as much of a factor for his 2 as Mahomes has been for his.

 

[1960Pats]

Once again, another amazing Bradyism.

And while looking at that list I noticed a name that really stood out for not being on the list at all.

 

[1960Pats]

Kinda amazing though he's in that company in short amount of time I will give him that

Just as it was with Tom and Bill they have the perfect storm of Patrick and Andy.

 

[amfootball]

Mahomes has 2 SB wins at a pretty early stage, which puts him at least on track to catch Montana. He already passed the Favre-Rodgers duo and Elway wasn't as much of a factor for his 2 as Mahomes has been for his.

If you are only basing being an all-time great on titles alone then he has. But I am looking at the whole scope of work. Mahomes still has a ways to go.

 

[1960Pats]

If you are only basing being an all-time great on titles alone then he has. But I am looking at the whole scope of work. Mahomes still has a ways to go.

My only point is, and has been, that Mahomes is closer to Montana than he is to Brady, who's out of reach unless you don't like his whole scope of work, whatever that means.

 

[VectorPrime]

In the aftermath of the Trey Lance debacle the 49ers not signing Brady should be a crime tried in The Hague.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

My only point is, and has been, that Mahomes is closer to Montana than he is to Brady, who's out of reach unless you don't like his whole scope of work, whatever that means.

No one thought a QB could win 7 Super Bowls considering the transient nature of success over the league’s history.

That said, no one thought quarterbacks could sustain this level of success for over a decade. We’ve seen Manning dominate for about 15 years and guys like Brees and Rodgers playing at a high level for a long time, with the playoff format/parity giving the better QBs a playoff ticket every season. They just all happened to crumble under pressure in the postseason.

So I think it’s possible Mahomes can get to 7. I think it’s very unlikely. But the league is so QB heavy now and it’s not like they’re running into many super teams with 8 Hall of Famers.

Look at tennis. Sampras retired 20 years ago #1 with 14 grand slams. Three guys now have 20+.

I predict Mahomes wins 4-5.

 

[1960Pats]

No one thought a QB could win 7 Super Bowls considering the transient nature of success over the league’s history.

That said, no one thought quarterbacks could sustain this level of success for over a decade. We’ve seen Manning dominate for about 15 years and guys like Brees and Rodgers playing at a high level for a long time, with the playoff format/parity giving the better QBs a playoff ticket every season. They just all happened to crumble under pressure in the postseason.

So I think it’s possible Mahomes can get to 7. I think it’s very unlikely. But the league is so QB heavy now and it’s not like they’re running into many super teams with 8 Hall of Famers.

Look at tennis. Sampras retired 20 years ago #1 with 14 grand slams. Three guys now have 20+.

I predict Mahomes wins 4-5.

But until Mahomes gets to 4 or 5 he's still fighting for #2, just like every other QB.

 

[1960Pats]

If you are only basing being an all-time great on titles alone then he has. But I am looking at the whole scope of work. Mahomes still has a ways to go.

We all enjoyed the heck out of the Pats before 2001 but it wasn't until they became a double dynasty that we went over the top. Winning is the goal in all of sports and you can clearly see that in the reactions of players when they win and lose.

 

[1960Pats]

In the aftermath of the Trey Lance debacle the 49ers not signing Brady should be a crime tried in The Hague.

Maybe the 49ers were skeptical because the Pats were willing to let him walk. Which team goes on trial first?
Neither team thought that he had 3 good years left in him but he sure as hell did.

 

[amfootball]

We all enjoyed the heck out of the Pats before 2001 but it wasn't until they became a double dynasty that we went over the top. Winning is the goal in all of sports and you can clearly see that in the reactions of players when they win and lose.

I don't disagree. I weigh the hardware the highest in terms of overall weight in the GOAT discussion. But the regular season matters too as well as longevity.

 

[amfootball]

No one thought a QB could win 7 Super Bowls considering the transient nature of success over the league’s history.

That said, no one thought quarterbacks could sustain this level of success for over a decade. We’ve seen Manning dominate for about 15 years and guys like Brees and Rodgers playing at a high level for a long time, with the playoff format/parity giving the better QBs a playoff ticket every season. They just all happened to crumble under pressure in the postseason.

So I think it’s possible Mahomes can get to 7. I think it’s very unlikely. But the league is so QB heavy now and it’s not like they’re running into many super teams with 8 Hall of Famers.

Look at tennis. Sampras retired 20 years ago #1 with 14 grand slams. Three guys now have 20+.

I predict Mahomes wins 4-5.

I get what you are saying but tennis so different because it is an individual sport. I do think it is amazing that 3 guys after Sampras got 20+ grand slams but I am not sure that equates well to the NFL. With the cap/FA + injuries, it is so difficult to sustain winning chips every year like Brady/Pats did. Mahomes is off to a great start but they already have a huge decision in front of them with Jones.

If Veach caves and pays him and he has said he is working hard to get him done than it is going to be awfully difficult for the Chiefs to sustain a championship roster with Mahomes and Jones eating so much of the cap. Also, I really do think last year has to be looked at with a bit of a side eye as when the NFL decided to just hand the Chiefs #1 seed and not play the game between the Bills/Bengals, both of whom beat the Chiefs, it really made the path smooth for the Chiefs to get back to the bowl. I believe if they had to travel to Cincy, they lose again before the SB.

I also think Mahomes health is a huge piece of the pie too. Brady played the position like the ultimate pro, preserving his body game after game and training like a mad man. Mahomes plays school yard football and takes a ton of hits and throws from awkward positions all the time. He has already played through some significant injuries. I think him being able to sustain his play/body for the next 10 years is a huge ask.

 

[tom444]

It's pretty simple. Mahomes is the most athletically gifted QB we've ever seen. Brady is the most accomplished. As it stands right now, Brady gets the GOAT nod by a long shot.

 

[Guts]

Check down artist Mahomes?