Brady on tensions with Belichick that could only be resolved with a split.

[RobertWeathers]

I always figured the tension started after Brady’s knee injury. He rejected the team’s doctors and then changed his entire perspective on training during his recovery. This led to Guerrero and Brady separating himself completely from the team’s training programs, and eventually to Brady by trying to get his receivers to go to his training methods over the team’s. I think this pissed Belichick off to no end, but he couldn’t do anything about it because he knew he couldn’t win without Brady. And had they lost that Super Bowl to Seattle I think the last 5 years Brady was here would have ended much sooner and differently than they did. By the end both wanted to move on, and that’s exactly what happened.

Plausible. He met Guerrero via Willie Mac in 2004 but not sure he fully embraced the whole program then.

 

[denverpatsfan]

And why did they win?

Apparently, Kraft was so upset by the Butler benching that he considered firing Belichick.

Do you think the Patriots with Brady win another Super Bowl if they fired Belichick?

No!

Only Patriot fans would complain about winning 6 Super Bowls instead of 5!

Could have been 10

 

[Wozzy]

Could have been 10

Because so many other teams have won more than 6… get a grip.

 

[Wozzy]

I don't agree
they could have extended Brady and LOWERED his cap hit the year he left
same with Thuney. rather than tagging Thuney, extend him and LOWER his cap hit.

but more so, the team missed on too many draft picks to keep it going
Rivers, Garcia, Dawson, Wynn (injuries), Harry, Williams, Wino, Cajuste (injuries)

Because you’re wrong. The same way you were wrong back after the 2019 season just ended and I told you the team was at a dead end and Tom would be smart to leave and the Patriots would be smart to let him go. You do what you always do and pretend the salary cap doesn’t exist.

Even if Tom came back the 2020 roster would have sucked, they’d still be near dead last in available cap space and dead cap. They’d still have to find nearly a dozen starters or major contributors with no money.

There’s a price for playing in 4 Super Bowls and winning 3 with a 43 year old QB. The salary cap exists. And anyone who thinks 43 year old Tom Brady was making this life decision based on how well AJ Brown did versus N’Keal should have their head examined.

 

[upstater1]

Could have been 10

No

 

[Huckleberry1]

Plausible. He met Guerrero via Willie Mac in 2004 but not sure he fully embraced the whole program then.

I agree. I don’t think he bought in until the knee injury.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

I suspect that Brady left because BB was so inept at drafting WRs and so focused on defense...it was no coincidence that Brady went to WR-rich team. N'Keal Harry had to be the final straw

 

[ahmed]

I am not looking at Tom or Bill
20 years is a long time to be great
what surprises me, is the lack of preparedness in seeing it end.
zero plan to succeed Tom, Josh, Scar, Gronk. lack of urgency as staff leaves the building.
we went from 2 steps ahead of everyone, to seeing things pass us by, and from having a midas touch to not being able to do anything right.
Cam? Harry? Wynn? MattP as the OC?
seriously?

It's hubris. It takes hubris to want to move on from the greatest QB ever. So not a surprise they thought they could keep chugging along regardless of QB.

 

[ahmed]

This is all stuff we knew already unless you've using mental gymnastics to convince yourself Kraft didn't want to pay Brady

The pay thing was the most absurd excuse given in this forum ever.

People actually tried to argue with a straight face that we could not afford to pay Brady $25MM when teams were paying $40MM+. I remember when one of the OL got extended, some idiot said that we could not do those moves if we paid Brady $25M. Fun times.

 

[NFL Mystique]

No

Theoretically...yes. 2006,2007,2011, and 2017 immediately come to mind.

I don't think they necessarily should have won in each of those years. 2006 and 2007 should have been wins though. But than again, 99 out of 100 times, 2014 and 2016 should have been losses.

It can work both ways.

 

[gobesmug]

Yep. Staubach/Landry was 10, Shula/Marino 13, Bradshaw/Noll 14

Brady/BB....20 insane.

You forgot to list Manning/Dungy...

 

[signbabybrady]

It's hubris. It takes hubris to want to move on from the greatest QB ever. So not a surprise they thought they could keep chugging along regardless of QB.

Hubris wasn't the important factor. No one wanted to move on from him. We just didn't want to give him an extension that lasted until age 45. And especially not several years early like Tom wanted. It hit its crescendo before 2019 when Tom didn't want to enter a lame duck season with the franchise tag as a possibility.

It's not that anything else didn't also contribute but at the end of the day if we had just granted him what would basically be a lifetime contract he would have taken it. Obviously not after 2019 but I think certainly anytime before his 2019 training camp negotiations that resulted in a no tag clause.

Obviously with hindsight this was a huge mistake. Even without hindsight I would say July of 2019 would have been the time to cave to this demand. But each off-season prior it was completely reasonable to not even entertain such a demand. People forget we had him under control until he was 42. You just don't give early extensions to guys who will be that old.

Edit: Damn it I tried to stay away from this thread but the same old tired tropes start coming out.

 

[Triumph]

Could have been 10

Brady would have won # 7 in NE if Thunder canned BB.

Kraft would have went out and got Brady some WRs and Gronk would have come back.

 

[Triumph]

It's hubris. It takes hubris to want to move on from the greatest QB ever. So not a surprise they thought they could keep chugging along regardless of QB.

Thunders pack of lies dont hold up in court. He says BB told him that Brady was done and in decline.

Baloney Bob just watched Brady go out and win 12 games with WRs - Edelman, Meyers, Josh Ganja Gordon, Dorsett, Harry K, Sanu, Gunner Oz. Lacosse, Izzo and Uncle Ben Watson were the TEs. AB lasted 1 game.

 

[Froob]

The pay thing was the most absurd excuse given in this forum ever.

People actually tried to argue with a straight face that we could not afford to pay Brady $25MM when teams were paying $40MM+. I remember when one of the OL got extended, some idiot said that we could not do those moves if we paid Brady $25M. Fun times.

we def could, the team was in a rough spot but would have been ready to spend in 2021 (as they did).

 

[upstater1]

Theoretically...yes. 2006,2007,2011, and 2017 immediately come to mind.

I don't think they necessarily should have won in each of those years. 2006 and 2007 should have been wins though. But than again, 99 out of 100 times, 2014 and 2016 should have been losses.

It can work both ways.

Non-sense

 

[PP2]

I'm surprised he ranked practice and game weather as high as he did. He was quite literally the best bad-weather QB ever.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Could have been 10

Should’ve been 10.

Theoretically...yes. 2006,2007,2011, and 2017 immediately come to mind.

I don't think they necessarily should have won in each of those years. 2006 and 2007 should have been wins though. But than again, 99 out of 100 times, 2014 and 2016 should have been losses.

It can work both ways.

More often than not, the Patriots from 2001-2019 had teams superior to their opponent. They lost too many games to teams they shouldn’t have. There were probably only a handful of games were the opposition was better than the Pats going into the game. Oakland, Pittsburgh and St. Louis 2001, Denver 2005, Chargers and Colts 2006, Broncos 2013, possibly Seattle 2014. They missed a lot of opportunities to win a Super Bowl.

Brady would have won # 7 in NE if Thunder canned BB.

Kraft would have went out and got Brady some WRs and Gronk would have come back.

Are you referring to after the 2019 season?That would’ve been a lot to ask for. I think Diggs was the only significant WR traded for. Maybe the trade up two spots and draft Jefferson who was mocked to the Pats.

 

[NFL Mystique]

Wasn’t there a quote from an ESPN story where Bill thought he could win with any QB? Tom Brady is one of the very few QB's in NFL history who could win with anyone at receiver. Surely, Bill didn't actually think the next QB would be just as good.

Tom Brady threw for 4k yards and 24 TD's in 2019. He was considered done and those stats were seen as weak for him. Keep in mind, about 25 NFL teams would kill for those QB stats.

Brady at his worst was still better than 95% of active QB's.

 

[1960Pats]

It was great to see Tom get another SB win but it would have been much better to see Brady and Belichick finish together here.