Brady on tensions with Belichick that could only be resolved with a split.

[RobertWeathers]

There is one surprise in all this looking back.

The Guerrero thing just never gets mentioned.

Those who watch closely KNOW it is about Guerrero.

You could tell from player reactions to what reinstalling Guerrero meant to the coaching staff (torpedo-ing their authority), you could tell what it meant to Gronk who was frustrated to the point of retirement, you could tell what it meant to Brady who became angry and animated in the Dynasty series when the subject of Guerrero's reinstatement came up.

We don't know what it meant to Belichick but imagine how he reacted to the usurpation of his authority.

Guerrero = Yoko Ono

I also agree the whole Guerrero thing in 2017 was a big deal. The TB12 produced doc with imagery of him getting massages in a luxury box with a bunch of chairs moved around was a shot at the org. The lack of an extension in 2018. Pleading the 5th, etc.

I think Gronk's situation isn't necessarily tied to Brady's but your point about Bill playing bossman is accurate.

 

[rkarp1]

I am not looking at Tom or Bill
20 years is a long time to be great
what surprises me, is the lack of preparedness in seeing it end.
zero plan to succeed Tom, Josh, Scar, Gronk. lack of urgency as staff leaves the building.
we went from 2 steps ahead of everyone, to seeing things pass us by, and from having a midas touch to not being able to do anything right.
Cam? Harry? Wynn? MattP as the OC?
seriously?

 

[gobesmug]

You are the problem. Someone says they just don't want to talk about this anymore after 5 years, and having gone through 2 coaches now post-Bill, and your reaction is to call them a "whiny Belichick fan".

The ignore thread feature exists for a reason. If the poster is done with the subject they could easily have just ignored it but instead decided to open it and make a post about it.

Clearly they aren't over it because they would have just moved on without reading or replying. Hence they are being whiny a out a subject matter they don't like

 

[UGAPatsfan]

This is a normal and even likely endgame to MOST successful partnerships in ANY business.

Priorities, and behavior shifts which can lead to competing agendas.

It’s amazing it lasted two decades.

Both dudes deserve a ton of credit for their unmatched excellence, and both dudes deserve some blame for being rigid and letting maniacal competitiveness lead to insular behavior and unspoken resentments.

It happens…all the time.

I’m forever grateful to both men, and also totally fine that both moved onto new things.

I think the Pats got it right with Vrabel’s hire. Time will tell, but he tasted success as a player, but is hungry for it as a coach.

Perfect combo.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I am not looking at Tom or Bill
20 years is a long time to be great
what surprises me, is the lack of preparedness in seeing it end.
zero plan to succeed Tom, Josh, Scar, Gronk. lack of urgency as staff leaves the building.
we went from 2 steps ahead of everyone, to seeing things pass us by, and from having a midas touch to not being able to do anything right.
Cam? Harry? Wynn? MattP as the OC?
seriously?

My guess was that it wasn't Bill's responsibility to hand over a ready made team for the next HC. The entitlement I've seen on here blaming Bill for not giving Mayo a loaded roster doesn't realize Bill would still be coaching if it were loaded.

I think Josh didn't think Bill was going anywhere anytime soon which is probably why he took the Raiders job. There was a specific reason Bill wanted Patricia as OC that I heard on podcast with a former player. I'll have to try to remember and find it.

They had a band aid replacement lined up in Jared Cook, but since Gronk couldn't make up his mind, Cook signed elsewhere in 2019.

The approach Bill took for the 2019 offseason was the nail in the coffin for their relationship. Bill signed a bunch of retread FA's who all ended up getting cut and traded (Thomas). Then you had the first 3 rounds of the draft being a disaster with Bill taking a DB in the 2nd round for absolutely no reason. Tom was already looking to leave NE during the 2019 season. I've never seen him so disgusted on the field. Throwing that pick against Tennessee looked like he had enough and wanted the game to end.

 

[rkarp1]

This is a normal and even likely endgame to MOST successful partnerships in ANY business.

Priorities, and behavior shifts which can lead to competing agendas.

It’s amazing it lasted two decades.

Both dudes deserve a ton of credit for their unmatched excellence, and both dudes deserve some blame for being rigid and letting maniacal competitiveness lead to insular behavior and unspoken resentments.

It happens…all the time.

I’m forever grateful to both men, and also totally fine that both moved onto new things.

I think the Pats got it right with Vrabel’s hire. Time will tell, but he tasted success as a player, but is hungry for it as a coach.

Perfect combo.

it is common, but it is just as common to have a plan in place for succession.
no one is not giving both their just due. they are both GOATS.
but we are now in year 4 of hell, and talking about it is helpful

 

[RobertWeathers]

My guess was that it wasn't Bill's responsibility to hand over a ready made team for the next HC. The entitlement I've seen on here blaming Bill for not giving Mayo a loaded roster doesn't realize Bill would still be coaching if it were loaded.

I think Josh didn't think Bill was going anywhere anytime soon which is probably why he took the Raiders job. There was a specific reason Bill wanted Patricia as OC that I heard on podcast with a former player. I'll have to try to remember and find it.

They had a band aid replacement lined up in Jared Cook, but since Gronk couldn't make up his mind, Cook signed elsewhere in 2019.

The approach Bill took for the 2019 offseason was the nail in the coffin for their relationship. Bill signed a bunch of retread FA's who all ended up getting cut and traded (Thomas). Then you had the first 3 rounds of the draft being a disaster with Bill taking a DB in the 2nd round for absolutely no reason. Tom was already looking to leave NE during the 2019 season. I've never seen him so disgusted on the field. Throwing that pick against Tennessee looked like he had enough and wanted the game to end.

I think Tom was looking to leave before the 2019 season. Ross/Miami, Kraft letting him go FA. 11th hr trade for AB.

He knew he was done. So did Bill.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I think Tom was looking to leave before the 2019 season. Ross/Miami, Kraft letting him go FA. 11th hr trade for AB.

He knew he was done. So did Bill.

There's rumors that Tom and Gronk were both strongly considering retirement after how the Eagles Super Bowl went down. That doesn't surprise me given their defense just got shredded by a gimmick offense with a backup QB. It was very disappointing seeing Bill not being able to slow them down.

Brown was signed as a FA. LV let him go. You can find some clips on YouTube of Gruden talking about it. He has no ill will towards Brown, but just did him a solid by releasing him as he got the feeling Brown didn't want to be there.

 

[rkarp1]

I do think it was Brady wanting to decide when he was not able to play up to his own standards, and Bill not agreeing to such.
I honestly Tom would have played on a 3 year deal for free, and if he decided to walk away after 1 or 2 years of not playing to his standards, he would have retired happily.
clearly, his Tampa seasons showed us he still had gas in the tank when he left here.

 

[RobertWeathers]

There's rumors that Tom and Gronk were both strongly considering retirement after how the Eagles Super Bowl went down.

We know Gronk did and it was a contract play. Once Bill threatened to trade him to DET he changed his tune.

I did not hear Tom contemplated retirement.

That doesn't surprise me given their defense just got shredded by a gimmick offense with a backup QB. It was very disappointing seeing Bill not being able to slow them down.

I don't think it had anything to do with it.

Brown was signed as a FA. LV let him go. You can find some clips on YouTube of Gruden talking about it. He has no ill will towards Brown, but just did him a solid by releasing him as he got the feeling Brown didn't want to be there.

Correct on Brown. Memory faded on that one. He shot himself out of town.

 

[rkarp1]

My guess was that it wasn't Bill's responsibility to hand over a ready made team for the next HC. The entitlement I've seen on here blaming Bill for not giving Mayo a loaded roster doesn't realize Bill would still be coaching if it were loaded.

I think Josh didn't think Bill was going anywhere anytime soon which is probably why he took the Raiders job. There was a specific reason Bill wanted Patricia as OC that I heard on podcast with a former player. I'll have to try to remember and find it.

They had a band aid replacement lined up in Jared Cook, but since Gronk couldn't make up his mind, Cook signed elsewhere in 2019.

The approach Bill took for the 2019 offseason was the nail in the coffin for their relationship. Bill signed a bunch of retread FA's who all ended up getting cut and traded (Thomas). Then you had the first 3 rounds of the draft being a disaster with Bill taking a DB in the 2nd round for absolutely no reason. Tom was already looking to leave NE during the 2019 season. I've never seen him so disgusted on the field. Throwing that pick against Tennessee looked like he had enough and wanted the game to end.

never mentioned handing over a team to Mayo
Bill rode the team to a 4 win season. he handed himself a poor roster

 

[upstater1]

I am not looking at Tom or Bill
20 years is a long time to be great
what surprises me, is the lack of preparedness in seeing it end.
zero plan to succeed Tom, Josh, Scar, Gronk. lack of urgency as staff leaves the building.
we went from 2 steps ahead of everyone, to seeing things pass us by, and from having a midas touch to not being able to do anything right.
Cam? Harry? Wynn? MattP as the OC?
seriously?

How can you say there was zero plan when there was a plan, and that plan was not only heavily criticized by Kraft for even the thought of having a plan, but also by the fans.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

I think Tom was looking to leave before the 2019 season. Ross/Miami, Kraft letting him go FA. 11th hr trade for AB.

He knew he was done. So did Bill.

If Bill knew Brady was done in New England after 2019, he had a hard time showing it in his roster construction. Stidham as backup, and only signing Cam on the cheap in June 2020? This from the same man that drafted Jimmy G in round 2 of 2014, and Brissett in round 3 of 2016 solely to be Jimmy’s backup for 4 games? The guy who did all that stuff had only Stidham and Hoyer on the roster in May 2020?

I don’t buy it. I’ve seen it reported elsewhere that while Belichick may have preferred moving on from Brady, he never thought Kraft would let him leave so therefore didn’t fully plan for it, and was completely caught off guard when it happened. That still seems closest to the truth to me given the actual actions taken. Unless Belichick had already started to lose his fastball and actually thought Stidham was a real option, which I doubt.

 

[RobertWeathers]

How can you say there was zero plan when there was a plan, and that plan was not only heavily criticized by Kraft for even the thought of having a plan, but also by the fans.

Not only that, if you think about it they only went one year without a legit starting QB.

2017- Tom
2018- Tom
2019- Tom
2020- Cam
2021- Mac (who had a decent rookie year)

Tom outplayed the succession plan and didn't have the cap space in 2020 to sign someone better than Cam.

Some franchises go years without a legit signal caller.

I think Bill unjustly gets flack for, "not having a plan".

 

[UGAPatsfan]

it is common, but it is just as common to have a plan in place for succession.
no one is not giving both their just due. they are both GOATS.
but we are now in year 4 of hell, and talking about it is helpful

Candidly, I personally blame Kraft for the succession botch. I was willing to give him leeway right up until he hired Mayo and that God awful staff.

Inexcusable misstep.

But…hoping the finally got it right.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Two other factors were importantly significant here: 1) the Gisele effect, and 1) the Guerrero (aka Dr. Quack) effect.

While there isn't much to support Guerrero scientifically it is hard to argue with the results. No player has had the kind of longevity that Tom had and certainly not a career as injury-free. He only missed games due to the ACL tear and the Deflategate BS.

 

[WinstonSmith]

Pressure creates diamonds. If not for Bill, Tom would've been a failed underwear model.

 

[Froob]

This is all stuff we knew already unless you've using mental gymnastics to convince yourself Kraft didn't want to pay Brady

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Great update Ian ty

 

[rkarp1]

How can you say there was zero plan when there was a plan, and that plan was not only heavily criticized by Kraft for even the thought of having a plan, but also by the fans.

Cam Newton was not heavily criticized?
MattP was not?
Harry was not?

from day 1 posters were pissed