Brady on tensions with Belichick that could only be resolved with a split.

[upstater1]

it was the Butler benching

it's a damn miracle this team won the year after that

And why did they win?

Apparently, Kraft was so upset by the Butler benching that he considered firing Belichick.

Do you think the Patriots with Brady win another Super Bowl if they fired Belichick?

No!

Only Patriot fans would complain about winning 6 Super Bowls instead of 5!

 

[203Pat]

Oh god not this again.

 

[Wozzy]

I don't thnk Bill anticipated Brady leaving, otherwise he would have signed Jimmy to an extension. He saw enough of Brady during 19+ years and thought he was always going to be a good soldier, agree to a team friendly contract and deal with his tough coaching. I think that's Bill's biggest ****up (aside from not picking Lamar when he was available in the draft).

None of this ^ makes sense.

Jimmy was entering the final year of his rookie contract. They couldn't afford two high paid QB's.

Brady was also 43 years old... everybody knew the end was near.

Lamar can't win in the playoffs and doesn't fit BB's system, so that wasn't a mistake.

 

[varjao]

man this subject is exhausting, it's the first time ever I will use some ignore function

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Bill and Bob both said they offered Tom a contract.

It's the "free" part of free agent that the Brady honks and BB haters here struggle with.

Gisselle wanted to live in Florida to be closer to her karate teacher.

The Patriots entered the 2020 season with the third most dead cap, nearly dead last in available cap space and needed to re-sign or replace 12 starters or major contributors including QB... the most expensive position in football. They burned through every resource playing in 4 Super Bowls over five years and winning 3 of them.

There was no going forward. Tom at 43 years old didn't want to waste a year resetting the salary cap so they could rebuild the following season when he was 44. Not when he could earn 30 million per in a tax free state and play WR's who led the entire league in passing for two years straight.

Move on with your lives. Nothing lasts forever. Just be glad you were there to witness it.

People seem to forget they went all in those years, and it paid off, the price to pay was after when we had no cap space and needed a lot of players, was it worth it? I say yes.

 

[Wozzy]

People seem to forget they went all in those years, and it paid off, the price to pay was after when we had no cap space and needed a lot of players, was it worth it? I say yes.

Agreed, the loons here think Tom would still be playing into his 50’s if BB wasn’t such a meanie. It’s a child like take, but those who engage in hero worship think like children so here we are.

He only played 3 more seasons, if he stayed he wouldn’t have had the same success. If he went to the Raiders or some other dog he would have fell flat on his face.

Splitting up was the best move for both player and team, even if the Patriots didn’t capitalize on it due to a power struggle at the top.

 

[rkarp1]

People seem to forget they went all in those years, and it paid off, the price to pay was after when we had no cap space and needed a lot of players, was it worth it? I say yes.

I don't agree
they could have extended Brady and LOWERED his cap hit the year he left
same with Thuney. rather than tagging Thuney, extend him and LOWER his cap hit.

but more so, the team missed on too many draft picks to keep it going
Rivers, Garcia, Dawson, Wynn (injuries), Harry, Williams, Wino, Cajuste (injuries)

 

[TheRainMaker]

I don't agree
they could have extended Brady and LOWERED his cap hit the year he left
same with Thuney. rather than tagging Thuney, extend him and LOWER his cap hit.

but more so, the team missed on too many draft picks to keep it going
Rivers, Garcia, Dawson, Wynn (injuries), Harry, Williams, Wino, Cajuste (injuries)

This. The reason the dynasty came to a their inevitable end was because of poor drafting which led to BB clogging the roster with pedestrian players at mid level veteran sized contracts.

The premature signing of Shaq Mason prevented them from signing Thuney.

Sony Michel falling off a cliff in year 2 didn’t help.

 

[Nikolai]

Frankly, it's amazing it went as long as it did. Other legendary coach-QB pairings last 6-7 years at most. The longer it went on, the more inevitable that there would be tension pulling things apart.

 

[BelizePats]

I don't think it was a lack of a plan. To me it all comes back to the dreadful drafting of BB's last 5 years. His final season (4 wins), the Patriots roster was pathetic. Mayo was a trainwreck who never should have been hired in the first place. But that putrid roster he inherited, certainly didn't do him any favors.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Frankly, it's amazing it went as long as it did. Other legendary coach-QB pairings last 6-7 years at most. The longer it went on, the more inevitable that there would be tension pulling things apart.

Yep. Staubach/Landry was 10, Shula/Marino 13, Bradshaw/Noll 14

Brady/BB....20 insane.

 

[Vindicate]

Yep. Staubach/Landry was 10, Shula/Marino 13, Bradshaw/Noll 14

Brady/BB....20 insane.

Has there been a single pairing in sports that has lasted that long?

****, even Bradshaw/Noll & Shula/Marino is longer than I remember.

20 is insane. I think the proof is in the pudding right there - no one committed to winning as much as those two would latch themselves to anyone else but someone as committed to and capable of winning as much as those two. This is why a debate is a bit silly.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Aside from his legendary QB leaving, there's a lot of similarity between how Shula and how Belichick ended their long tenures with their teams. Mostly by just getting players and coaches that wouldn't challenge him...including hiring his own kids.

Also, lots of similarities between Bledsoe and Marino in how their careers progressed.... their next legendary coach (Belichick for Drew, Johnson for Marino) tried to get them to play a style they weren't suited for.

 

[Nikolai]

Yep. Staubach/Landry was 10, Shula/Marino 13, Bradshaw/Noll 14

Brady/BB....20 insane.

Yeah, looking back, I see that a number of pairings actually did last close to or over 10 years, but sprinkled with "off years". Brady and BB didn't really have too much in the way of off years, 2002 notwithstanding. Even 2009, as much as we malign it, was a playoff year.

 

[BobDigital]

To me most of this comes back to Bill. Not to pile on the guy, but he has a very inflexible personality and perspective on football, team building and how to manage his players.

While he did treat Brady differently than other players, he treated him too alike. Particularly by the time Brady was in his mid 30s. I know the idea was to have team cohesion by keeping all players in a similar position on the team as much as possible.

But Brady by that point didn't want to be a player who wore the hat of a coach and had input. He wanted to be a coach who also happened to be a player. Basically he saw how Peyton Manning waved the punt team off the field, and wanted that. And rightly so. He probably also wanted a voice in free agency and the roster, at least on offense. Basically everything he got in Tampa.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yeah, looking back, I see that a number of pairings actually did last close to or over 10 years, but sprinkled with "off years". Brady and BB didn't really have too much in the way of off years, 2002 notwithstanding. Even 2009, as much as we malign it, was a playoff year.

Yep. An off year was getting knocked out in the 1st round. Oh the horror..

 

[rkarp1]

This. The reason the dynasty came to a their inevitable end was because of poor drafting which led to BB clogging the roster with pedestrian players at mid level veteran sized contracts.

The premature signing of Shaq Mason prevented them from signing Thuney.

Sony Michel falling off a cliff in year 2 didn’t help.

poor drafting can have 2 variations

did the team miss on the player evaluation? it's going to happen. to every team. every GM. even Bill.
or
did the team fail to put a properly evaluated player into the right situation for that player? bad scheme. bad teaching/coaching?

I don't think Bill changed how he evaluated players coming out of school. but as the league changed, did Bill's evaluation method keep up? and as staff left, did Bill replace them with the correct people?

 

[Patsfan1645]

poor drafting can have 2 variations

did the team miss on the player evaluation? it's going to happen. to every team. every GM. even Bill.
or
did the team fail to put a properly evaluated player into the right situation for that player? bad scheme. bad teaching/coaching?

I don't think Bill changed how he evaluated players coming out of school. but as the league changed, did Bill's evaluation method keep up? and as staff left, did Bill replace them with the correct people?

Matty P as offensive coordinator answers your last question.

 

[TommyD4207]

What this discussion sounds like, nearly six years later.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I always figured the tension started after Brady’s knee injury. He rejected the team’s doctors and then changed his entire perspective on training during his recovery. This led to Guerrero and Brady separating himself completely from the team’s training programs, and eventually to Brady by trying to get his receivers to go to his training methods over the team’s. I think this pissed Belichick off to no end, but he couldn’t do anything about it because he knew he couldn’t win without Brady. And had they lost that Super Bowl to Seattle I think the last 5 years Brady was here would have ended much sooner and differently than they did. By the end both wanted to move on, and that’s exactly what happened.