PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Brady, Mankins, Wilfork consuming 35% of Patriots cap


Status
Not open for further replies.
A hard-hitting, under-sized SS who struggles in coverage and is a little bit slow for the position? I feel like we've already been down that path, and it didn't work out. If the Pats take Elam in the first, I'll go ballistic. There will be better NFL safeties available in later rounds.

I'm not getting what it is that makes you think he's slow...
 
I'm not getting what it is that makes you think he's slow...

I can't look it up due to having many windows open for work on top of this one, but, IIRC, his 40 time was 4.58. Not slow by any means, but it may not be what some people here are looking for in a safety.

EDIT: And I'm also not on board with the "better safeties available" train of thought. It's a deep safety draft but, as far as talent goes, there's a drop off after Vaccarro and Elam.
 
I can't look it up due to having many windows open for work on top of this one, but, IIRC, his 40 time was 4.58. Not slow by any means, but it may not be what some people here are looking for in a safety.

I've seen him listed at 5'10", 202 lbs and running a 4.53, and he says he's hoping to run in the low 4.4s at the combine.

Elam told Baumann about his 40 time. “The 40-yard dash is very important… That’s why it’s my biggest focus right now… I would love to run a low 4.4.,”

http://www.sportstalkflorida.com/matt-elam-on-david-baumann-show/
 
Watching the videos it doesn't look like speed is a problem. Neither is run support. Coverage ability might be.

He was one of the best cover guys on one of the best defenses in the country last season. Again, I'm not sure where the pundits are getting that he's weaker in coverage. It might be one of those things where he does everything else so well that they harp on that as a weakness. But I don't see it.
 
I think Brady's contractual situation becomes even more interesting with Flacco hitting free agency. If I am the Patriots I would extend Brady now at that $20-21 million a year figure. As Mo pointed out there is no way you can just restructure and deal with it next year. His salary also fully guarantees at the end of this season so its not like you could even threaten with a fake cut. If Flacco gets what he wants (and he might) that pushes Bradys value to $22-23 million a year. I actually think thats the most important thing that should be on their list and get him in now before the system resets in a few weeks. Thats also going to give them room to work with this season.

Speaking of which do any of you guys think that Belichick would consider dumping Welker and giving up a 1 for Victor Cruz? Just a thought I had the other day since the Giants are not going to overpay but he could really fit in well in NE and is far younger than Welker.

Ill have the Pats cap pages updated tonight or tomorrow, but I also started up a new site where the Pats numbers are current. Its at overthecap.com and you can check around for a whole bunch of numbers and other things there. But Ill still be maintaining the AFC East teams on the jetscap site as well. My building of that site is why my updates on jetscap of the rosters has been so slow....
 
Some comments on the comments:

1. As far as the OP goes, its really a non-story. Check any team, especially one who has a top 10 QB, and you will find them with 3 players who take up 30% or more of their cap. The fact that the story was headlined, like someone found out the Pats had cancer and were doomed, was just ridiculous.

2. The story behind the story is that after the 'big 3' the Pats are once again the image of what passes for the middle class with 17 players making aprox. $1-3MM, and only 6 making more than that.

3. Compare that to the Jets situation where they have 7 players who are taking up $80MM of their cap space. Conversely the Pats go 22 deep before they reach that $80MM number (btw - all this is according to Jason)

4. Any talk of moving Mankins is dumb. Makins is here for the next two years. In those 2 years, if healthy, he's going to be a top LG, who is earning top money. However AFTER 2014, I doubt he's with the team. At THAT point he'll be on the down side with too big a salary and little consequence to release him. Until then, for good or bad, he's going to be a Patriot.

5. Mo did a great job in showing how, in 3 very realistic and reasonable scenarios the Pats can be $35+MM under the cap for this year and not see the affects until 2015. Normally I'd caution against this kind of maneuver because you eventually have to pay the piper and usually when you do, it gets ugly.

HOWEVER given the reality of a closing window with Brady, maybe THIS is the time to make a 2 year commitment to maximizing the talent and depth and be willing to pay the price down the road. Based on what I understand it takes at MOST 2 seasons to clear up cap issues. I'd be willing to pay that price to end Brady's career with a REAL shot at a couple of Lombardi's, even if it meant a season or two at 5-11.

6. Lets say the Pats do the 3 restructures/extensions. I think the best use of their money would be to resign Welker (but only if he agrees to something within the $7-8MM/yr range) and Volmer, let Talib walk, send McCourty back to CB, and sign one of the top S FA's (the guy from Buffalo would be my top pick)

Those are the 3 major signings - But you structure those contracts such that none of them will have a cap impact of more than $5MM in the first 2 years (for example the Jets signed Holmes to a $50MM/5yr contract, but it was structured to have cap hits of $1.4MM and 3.5MM in the first 2 years, so $5MM would be easy.

Now with those major signings taking only about $15MM of the cap space for the next 2 years the Pats will have plenty of money to throw at any number of "middle class FA's" like Edelman, Thomas, Arrington, and Woodhead or the like.

7. Then you use the draft to draft the best DB that's on your board at 29, whether he's a CB or S. You use the next pick on a WR, preferably a big one. Normally I would have wanted a DLman with one of the top picks, but Armstead looks to be as good a prospect as any DLman who might be available at 29.

Still contrary to the common wisdom, I'm happy with our OL and I assume we will resign at least one of Thomas/Volmer, so unless we let both walk, I'd rather not use one of the top 2 picks on an Offensive lineman, ESPECIALLY a OG

8.BOTTOM LINE - Even though it goes against everything I believe in cap management. The reality is that with an improving defense, and the potential for a fading Brady, NOW is the time to invest in getting our next set of Lombardi's, even though we know that there will be a difficult price to pay in 2-3 years. After a 15 year run like we've lived through,. it will be well worth the pain. JMHO.

What I outlined would not result in any cap trouble going forward with the exception of Wilfork. Brady's deal would be fine throughout, as his last one would have been save for last seasons restructure (and that was their decision to free up cap space most of which unfortunately Bill wasted on dud signings...). Because Mankins has that open year on the backend of his deal they can restructure him a couple of times before parting company at some point with manageable dead cap. Would be a similar deal with Brady in part because if you do deals two years early you get to amortize into two more years than you otherwise would and absorbing some of the signing bonus in the present is what makes dead cap manageable on the back end.

No need to go into win now at all costs mode. This team isn't that far off. Keep drafting well. Retain your core playmakers. They could actually use some added veteran presence, but it doesn't have to be elite...
 
I think Brady's contractual situation becomes even more interesting with Flacco hitting free agency. If I am the Patriots I would extend Brady now at that $20-21 million a year figure. As Mo pointed out there is no way you can just restructure and deal with it next year. His salary also fully guarantees at the end of this season so its not like you could even threaten with a fake cut. If Flacco gets what he wants (and he might) that pushes Bradys value to $22-23 million a year. I actually think thats the most important thing that should be on their list and get him in now before the system resets in a few weeks. Thats also going to give them room to work with this season.

Speaking of which do any of you guys think that Belichick would consider dumping Welker and giving up a 1 for Victor Cruz? Just a thought I had the other day since the Giants are not going to overpay but he could really fit in well in NE and is far younger than Welker.

Ill have the Pats cap pages updated tonight or tomorrow, but I also started up a new site where the Pats numbers are current. Its at overthecap.com and you can check around for a whole bunch of numbers and other things there. But Ill still be maintaining the AFC East teams on the jetscap site as well. My building of that site is why my updates on jetscap of the rosters has been so slow....


Although Cruz could indeed fit in well with the Patriots, I cannot see Belichick giving up a first round pick for him.

As an aside, thanks much for all your time and effort on the various cap pages for all the teams; it's much appreciated.
 
These are the relevant numbers for Mankins, rather than the cap hits. 2012 is a no-brainer, 2013 not so much.


Base salaries are $1,500,000(2011), $2,750,000(2012), $5,750,000(2013), $6,250,000(2014), $6,750,000(2015), and $6,750,000(2016).


It might be worth taking a 2M hit on him. Just to get rid of his super high contract.

But I doubt they do. If they could get something in a trade, maybe, but I doubt anyone wants his contract even without paying himi the signing bonus.

So yeah, given that no one would trade for him even without having to pay his bonus, that almost by definition means they overpaid him.

There's a limit to the number of big money contracts a team can have. Almost by definition, if you sign one, you've failed. You've failed to have enough guys on their cheap rookie contracts. If they hadn't whiffed on Bussey and the bust from Penn state so badly, they could have let mankins walk and have had a replacement ready. Thomas looked pretty good, he's certainly not 7M less good than Mankins. Sorry, but it's the truth.
 
I think Brady's contractual situation becomes even more interesting with Flacco hitting free agency. If I am the Patriots I would extend Brady now at that $20-21 million a year figure. As Mo pointed out there is no way you can just restructure and deal with it next year. His salary also fully guarantees at the end of this season so its not like you could even threaten with a fake cut. If Flacco gets what he wants (and he might) that pushes Bradys value to $22-23 million a year. I actually think thats the most important thing that should be on their list and get him in now before the system resets in a few weeks. Thats also going to give them room to work with this season.

Speaking of which do any of you guys think that Belichick would consider dumping Welker and giving up a 1 for Victor Cruz? Just a thought I had the other day since the Giants are not going to overpay but he could really fit in well in NE and is far younger than Welker.

Ill have the Pats cap pages updated tonight or tomorrow, but I also started up a new site where the Pats numbers are current. Its at overthecap.com and you can check around for a whole bunch of numbers and other things there. But Ill still be maintaining the AFC East teams on the jetscap site as well. My building of that site is why my updates on jetscap of the rosters has been so slow....

Jeebus...you are one smart, ambitious son of a gun. How'd you ever end up a JETS fan, accident of birth?

Awesome site, buddy. :rocker: :youtheman:
 
These are the relevant numbers for Mankins, rather than the cap hits. 2012 is a no-brainer, 2013 not so much.


Base salaries are $1,500,000(2011), $2,750,000(2012), $5,750,000(2013), $6,250,000(2014), $6,750,000(2015), and $6,750,000(2016).

I'm not sure how having a cap hit that's 2 million dollars more than it costs to keep the player is not a relevant number.... :confused:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


New Patriots WR Javon Baker: ‘You ain’t gonna outwork me’
Friday Patriots Notebook 5/3: News and Notes
Thursday Patriots Notebook 5/2: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 5/1: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Jerod Mayo’s Appearance on WEEI On Monday
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/30: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Drake Maye’s Interview on WEEI on Jones & Mego with Arcand
MORSE: Rookie Camp Invitees and Draft Notes
Patriots Get Extension Done with Barmore
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/29: News and Notes
Back
Top