Brady is NOT back, how do we fix the Patriots

[Pats2000]

Draft the next Brady in the 6th round?

 

[Taco]

Draft the next Brady in the 6th round?

Why doesn’t every team do this?

 

[lancerman]

You tank. You do the smart thing, Brady was the only reason this offense wasn’t in the way of a division win. Set yourself up for the future

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

McDaniels was high on Bortles and Mariota look for one of them to come in if we don’t draft a guy high.
Bortles or Mariota would be competing with Stidham.
This is of course if the GOAT goes elsewhere.

 

[Hyped]

If Brady isn't coming back, for me..it would have to be a total tear down/overhaul.

OL - Probably trade away guys like Cannon who have been with us a long time. And probably signing Thuney long term...to start a youth movement with Mason/Thuney the highest paid guys on the line and save $$$ to pay Wynn down the road.

QB - Roll with Stidham...and probably pick up a rookie in the draft...but not too early. We want to see what Stidham has first...probably trade for a veteran...Andy Dalton? Or something like that...nothing too cap prohibitive.

RB - I love Damien Harris...and might be time to trade James White to a contender. For FB, trade Develin...and bring in a young pup.

TE - Start completely over...and forget about Gronk. Maybe even convince Gronk to return only to trade him to a contender like Seattle where he can play for a laid back coach like Carroll for his final 1-2 years.

WR - Trade Edelman...to the Niners? Or one of the L.A. teams. I think he would be a great fit anywhere else for his waning years. Continue to develop Meyers/Harry...and keep Sanu for a bit. Draft heavily at WR too....

DL - Trade Lawrence Guy away....and start a youth movement all across the line.

LB - Trade Hightower and his big contract...let KVN/Collins walk. Bentley/Roberts/Wino/etc...youth movement.

CB - Trade Gilmore for a high #1 pick...and draft his successor....let DMac/JMac walk. Seek a replacement for Chung.... Throw JoeJuan and JC Jackson in the fire...they can play, IMO.

K - New kicker.....let Gostkowski walk.

P - Keep Bailey.

LS - Keep Cardona.

ST Guys - Maybe keep Slater for 1-2 more seasons to be a team captain and lead the young pups....keep some guys who are young like Bethel and King. Let Ebner walk.

Basically, unload contracts....add as many rookies or year 2/3 players as possible. Develop the DL/OL and invest heavily into that...then when the team is a 8-8/7-9 type of solid team...upgrade the skill positions and make another SB run!

 

[mgteich]

You tank. You do the smart thing, Brady was the only reason this offense wasn’t in the way of a division win. Set yourself up for the future

You must be a fan of another team, or a recent fan of the patriots. This is NOT what the patriots do, what Kraft does or what Bill does.

 

[mgteich]

If Brady isn't coming back, for me..it would have to be a total tear down/overhaul.

.

This is NOT the patriot way. You suggest going with Stidham, a Dalton equivalent and a draftee.
Bill is good enough to build a team around that scenario that will be competitive THIS year. There will changes as always, and this team won't be a Super Bowl team.

The issue is a fundamental one. Does Kraft and Bill field a team that will compete for the division and the playoffs this year, or will it tank?

Since you have lots of good ideas, along with the tanking, I will respond in more than one post.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

If Brady isn't coming back, for me..it would have to be a total tear down/overhaul.

OL - Probably trade away guys like Cannon who have been with us a long time. And probably signing Thuney long term...to start a youth movement with Mason/Thuney the highest paid guys on the line and save $$$ to pay Wynn down the road.

QB - Roll with Stidham...and probably pick up a rookie in the draft...but not too early. We want to see what Stidham has first...probably trade for a veteran...Andy Dalton? Or something like that...nothing too cap prohibitive.

RB - I love Damien Harris...and might be time to trade James White to a contender. For FB, trade Develin...and bring in a young pup.

TE - Start completely over...and forget about Gronk. Maybe even convince Gronk to return only to trade him to a contender like Seattle where he can play for a laid back coach like Carroll for his final 1-2 years.

WR - Trade Edelman...to the Niners? Or one of the L.A. teams. I think he would be a great fit anywhere else for his waning years. Continue to develop Meyers/Harry...and keep Sanu for a bit. Draft heavily at WR too....

DL - Trade Lawrence Guy away....and start a youth movement all across the line.

LB - Trade Hightower and his big contract...let KVN/Collins walk. Bentley/Roberts/Wino/etc...youth movement.

CB - Trade Gilmore for a high #1 pick...and draft his successor....let DMac/JMac walk. Seek a replacement for Chung.... Throw JoeJuan and JC Jackson in the fire...they can play, IMO.

K - New kicker.....let Gostkowski walk.

P - Keep Bailey.

LS - Keep Cardona.

ST Guys - Maybe keep Slater for 1-2 more seasons to be a team captain and lead the young pups....keep some guys who are young like Bethel and King. Let Ebner walk.

Basically, unload contracts....add as many rookies or year 2/3 players as possible. Develop the DL/OL and invest heavily into that...then when the team is a 8-8/7-9 type of solid team...upgrade the skill positions and make another SB run!

Did we just become best friends?
Because I agree with all of us besides keep Sanu.

 

[mgteich]

.

K - New kicker.....let Gostkowski walk.
P - Keep Bailey.
LS - Keep Cardona.

ST Guys - Maybe keep Slater for 1-2 more seasons to be a team captain and lead the young pups....keep some guys who are young like Bethel and King. Let Ebner walk.

SPECIALISTS AND SPECIAL TEAMS

I agree. There would be a bit cap cost, but not much. We need Slater, bethel and King. I'm Ok with oft-injured Ebner leaving, and Gostkowski; it is time. However, I suspect that Bill will find a way to keep Ebner.

 

[lancerman]

You must be a fan of another team, or a recent fan of the patriots. This is NOT what the patriots do, what Kraft does or what Bill does.

Then the fans should prepare for purgatory

 

[mgteich]

..

OL - Probably trade away guys like Cannon who have been with us a long time. And probably signing Thuney long term...to start a youth movement with Mason/Thuney the highest paid guys on the line and save $$$ to pay Wynn down the road.

QB - Roll with Stidham...and probably pick up a rookie in the draft...but not too early. We want to see what Stidham has first...probably trade for a veteran...Andy Dalton? Or something like that...nothing too cap prohibitive.

RB - I love Damien Harris...and might be time to trade James White to a contender. For FB, trade Develin...and bring in a young pup.

TE - Start completely over...and forget about Gronk. Maybe even convince Gronk to return only to trade him to a contender like Seattle where he can play for a laid back coach like Carroll for his final 1-2 years.

WR - Trade Edelman...to the Niners? Or one of the L.A. teams. I think he would be a great fit anywhere else for his waning years. Continue to develop Meyers/Harry...and keep Sanu for a bit. Draft heavily at WR too....

The offense is the very hard part.

OL FOR THE FUTURE
1) The patriots are NOT, are NOT paying Thuney $15M AAV. It's not happening and it shouldn't.
2) Froholdt is likely the future at OG, at least good enough to compete with Karras, who should be extended. I expect us to draft another OG or OG/C in the 3rd or 4th, as we should every year.
3) Andrews will stay if healthy. In any case, Karras is needed to provide an alternative. Ferentz may even need to stay.
4) Yes, Cannon should go; but he won't have any trade value. We will need to draft an OT and sign a free agent to replace Cannon.

QB
This scenario includes Stidham, a Dalton level equivalent (won't be cheap) and a draftee. I don't know where Bill will find his QB. Belichick will have a short list. He will know about when in the draft to pull the trigger on his man.

RB/FB
I see no reason to trade our best weapon in the passing game. Yes, Harris should get more reps.
Develin is a FB; trade value is nil. Devein is worth much more to the patriots. If he can play, Develin is sorely needed.

TE
It is easy to say "start over". Sure, just find 3 qualified TE's. They are NOT easy to find. Bot LeCosse and Izzo will be in training camp. I agree that we need to find two quality TE's. I also think that we probably won't.

WR
So, your plan is to draft heavily at WR. Is that because Belichick is so good at evaluating WR's in the draft? If Brady is gone, Edelman is probably gone also, through trade or retirement. This would leave Sanu (who we just better extend), Harry and Meyers. Unless we find two WR's better than Sanu, our passing game will be among the worst in the NFL.

BOTTOM LINE
Our plans for WR and TE need lots of work. Edelman should stay if he willing.

 

[mgteich]

.
DL - Trade Lawrence Guy away....and start a youth movement all across the line.

LB - Trade Hightower and his big contract...let KVN/Collins walk. Bentley/Roberts/Wino/etc...youth movement.

CB - Trade Gilmore for a high #1 pick...and draft his successor....let DMac/JMac walk. Seek a replacement for Chung.... Throw JoeJuan and JC Jackson in the fire...they can play, IMO.
.

It is here that I disagree with your entire approach. We have an elite defense. Scrubbing it because we want to rebuild is just plain silly, IMO. The defense and the running game can make the team competitive, if we don't dismantle the defense.

DL
I see now reason to get rid of people simply because of age. In fact, we should extend Shelton and even Guy. We need to bring back Butler; he is an RFA. Sure, we might draft an upgrade for Wise.

LB
I agree that KVN and Collins are gone. Hightower is a very important part of our defense. A restructure brings us $5.3M in cap savings. I would extend him before I would trade him. Unless we are planning to wait for 5 years to compete, Hightower is part of the solution, not part of the problem. Having Roberts as part of the youth movement is interesting; but I am Ok with re-signing him.

Yes, we do hope that Winovich and Bentley are much of the replacement for KVN and Collins. But someone is really kidding here. Even with Hightower staying, we need to add at LEAST one quality LB.

DB
Again, you just want to get young. You would have a DB of Williams, jackson, Jones, Harmon and Brooks. You would move us from one of the best to mediocre by losing Gilmore, McCourty's and Chung.

This make NO sense. Gilmore is signed through 2024. Is your competitive team for the 2025 season. IMO, we should be competitive now.

We do need to add youth at safety. But the answer is not to start Brooks and Harmon, and whatever youthful players you find.

The answer at DB may indeed to move from the McCourty's. My preference would be to re-sign Devon, AND add a couple of young safeties to eventually replace Chung and Harmon. Our CB's are solid with Gilmore, Jackson, Jones, and Williams.

 

[TheAdultintheRoom]

Such a dead time for football fans. At this time next month we'll be heavy into mock drafts and gearing up for free agency. Right now there just isn't much to talk about.

 

[Hyped]

The offense is the very hard part.

OL FOR THE FUTURE
1) The patriots are NOT, are NOT paying Thuney $15M AAV. It's not happening and it shouldn't.
2) Froholdt is likely the future at OG, at least good enough to compete with Karras, who should be extended. I expect us to draft another OG or OG/C in the 3rd or 4th, as we should every year.
3) Andrews will stay if healthy. In any case, Karras is needed to provide an alternative. Ferentz may even need to stay.
4) Yes, Cannon should go; but he won't have any trade value. We will need to draft an OT and sign a free agent to replace Cannon.

QB
This scenario includes Stidham, a Dalton level equivalent (won't be cheap) and a draftee. I don't know where Bill will find his QB. Belichick will have a short list. He will know about when in the draft to pull the trigger on his man.

RB/FB
I see no reason to trade our best weapon in the passing game. Yes, Harris should get more reps.
Develin is a FB; trade value is nil. Devein is worth much more to the patriots. If he can play, Develin is sorely needed.

TE
It is easy to say "start over". Sure, just find 3 qualified TE's. They are NOT easy to find. Bot LeCosse and Izzo will be in training camp. I agree that we need to find two quality TE's. I also think that we probably won't.

WR
So, your plan is to draft heavily at WR. Is that because Belichick is so good at evaluating WR's in the draft? If Brady is gone, Edelman is probably gone also, through trade or retirement. This would leave Sanu (who we just better extend), Harry and Meyers. Unless we find two WR's better than Sanu, our passing game will be among the worst in the NFL.

BOTTOM LINE
Our plans for WR and TE need lots of work. Edelman should stay if he willing.

Comments:

1.) Paying Thuney 15M AAV won't look as bad in 2-3 seasons when the team gets better.

2.) Agree that if we get nothing in trade for our vets, just keep them and let them play out their contracts. But we need to tank somewhat....

3.) Yeah, WR drafting is BB's achilles heel....but we gotta try right? The idea is to draft el cheapo WR's while rebuilding...if they aren't up to par b the time we are contenders, we can just spend big in free agency.

4.) TE: By starting over, I mean keep LaCosse and Izzo, but bring in TONS of competition......they should be fighting to make the club.

 

[Hyped]

It is here that I disagree with your entire approach. We have an elite defense. Scrubbing it because we want to rebuild is just plain silly, IMO. The defense and the running game can make the team competitive, if we don't dismantle the defense.

DL
I see now reason to get rid of people simply because of age. In fact, we should extend Shelton and even Guy. We need to bring back Butler; he is an RFA. Sure, we might draft an upgrade for Wise.

LB
I agree that KVN and Collins are gone. Hightower is a very important part of our defense. A restructure brings us $5.3M in cap savings. I would extend him before I would trade him. Unless we are planning to wait for 5 years to compete, Hightower is part of the solution, not part of the problem. Having Roberts as part of the youth movement is interesting; but I am Ok with re-signing him.

Yes, we do hope that Winovich and Bentley are much of the replacement for KVN and Collins. But someone is really kidding here. Even with Hightower staying, we need to add at LEAST one quality LB.

DB
Again, you just want to get young. You would have a DB of Williams, jackson, Jones, Harmon and Brooks. You would move us from one of the best to mediocre by losing Gilmore, McCourty's and Chung.

This make NO sense. Gilmore is signed through 2024. Is your competitive team for the 2025 season. IMO, we should be competitive now.

We do need to add youth at safety. But the answer is not to start Brooks and Harmon, and whatever youthful players you find.

The answer at DB may indeed to move from the McCourty's. My preference would be to re-sign Devon, AND add a couple of young safeties to eventually replace Chung and Harmon. Our CB's are solid with Gilmore, Jackson, Jones, and Williams.

Obviously, we will have to agree to disagree on how long a massive rebuild will take. Bottom line, I believe a good rebuild should take 3 full seasons after we gut the team of all high priced veterans and try to flip all of our talent for draft picks/young prospects. Year 1: We would be something like 4-12.....Year 2: 7-9....Year 3: 10-6....then that off-season sign big ticket skill position FA's and win the whole damn thing....

The issue with guys like Hightower/Gilmore is that they are TOO GOOD to allow the team to get any worse than 8-8, IMO. If we played without Brady in 2019, I think we would have finished 9-7ish.....and still have competed for the AFC East title...and then drafted in the upper teens or low 20's.... by tanking...we could have 3 or 4 wins and likely be in play for a Trevor Lawrence talent at QB....

 

[mgteich]

Obviously, we will have to agree to disagree on how long a massive rebuild will take. Bottom line, I believe a good rebuild should take 3 full seasons after we gut the team of all high priced veterans and try to flip all of our talent for draft picks/young prospects. Year 1: We would be something like 4-12.....Year 2: 7-9....Year 3: 10-6....then that off-season sign big ticket skill position FA's and win the whole damn thing....

The issue with guys like Hightower/Gilmore is that they are TOO GOOD to allow the team to get any worse than 8-8, IMO. If we played without Brady in 2019, I think we would have finished 9-7ish.....and still have competed for the AFC East title...and then drafted in the upper teens or low 20's.... by tanking...we could have 3 or 4 wins and likely be in play for a Trevor Lawrence talent at QB....

So, you want to get rid of Gilmore, Hightower and McCourty to make sure that we are non-competitive. And you will hope that the compensation you get will get you a Gilmore, Hightower and McCourty down the line. I'm not buying.

How did tank for tua work? In any case, as I have said, this isn't the patriot way.

 

[mgteich]

Then the fans should prepare for purgatory

There are folks that have been here much longer than those whose only experience is with Brady and Beilichick. The team WILL be competitive. Kraft will continue to sell every seat, as he has every game since he bought the team. He won't do that if his goal for 2020 is go 4-12 and TRY to draft a top QB in the 2021 draft. BTW, how did tank for tua work for teams?

 

[Hyped]

So, you want to get rid of Gilmore, Hightower and McCourty to make sure that we are non-competitive. And you will hope that the compensation you get will get you a Gilmore, Hightower and McCourty down the line. I'm not buying.

How did tank for tua work? In any case, as I have said, this isn't the patriot way.

The tanking for Tua didn't work out because Ryan Fizpatrick decided to play hard in week 17 and Tua got hurt! Had Tua not gotten hurt, I think Dolphin fans would be pissed at Fitzy/Flores for drafting outside the top 5.

 

[mgteich]

The tanking for Tua didn't work out because Ryan Fizpatrick decided to play hard in week 17 and Tua got hurt! Had Tua not gotten hurt, I think Dolphin fans would be pissed at Fitzy/Flores for drafting outside the top 5.

fine. With great respect, I think that you need a new team to root for, or for Kraft to sell the team.
Your scenario isn't happening under current ownership.

 

[Tony2046]

The tanking for Tua didn't work out because Ryan Fizpatrick decided to play hard in week 17 and Tua got hurt! Had Tua not gotten hurt, I think Dolphin fans would be pissed at Fitzy/Flores for drafting outside the top 5.

I hate tanking because you never know who the next guy is in that environment. You also never know how far from winning it all the team is.

An above average team can win it all if the cards fall right. Sometimes it's just a matter of being the healthiest team.

Also you'll never know if the guy you tanked for is the next big bust, the next average jag or worth the pick.

Go for it every year because otherwise you'll never know if it could have been your year.