Brady intentional grounding penalty and the state of NFL officiating

[ivanvamp]

In 2012, the Patriots were playing in Seattle. A game they'd end up losing 24-23. But during that game, late in the first half, the Pats were at the Seattle 3 yard line, ahead 17-10. They had time for one shot into the end zone, and if it didn't work, kick a field goal to go up 20-10. Brady dropped back, was under some pressure, and nobody was open, so he threw the ball out of the back of the end zone. Incomplete pass.

But wait.

A flag came in. Brady was called for intentional grounding - a call that we have never ever seen before in that situation. With the penalty came an automatic time runoff, and the half ended and the Patriots couldn't even get the chance for a field goal. Of course, they'd go on to lose by one point, but that field goal would have been the difference in the game.

Now, QBs throw the ball away all the time in that situation, and they are instructed to throw it so far out of bounds that it couldn't possibly be intercepted. Brady did what he had done many times before in his career and had never been called for it. At the time we were all apoplectic at the call, and rightly so.

Well, fast forward to Sunday, as the Patriots were at Denver. If any of you has NFL game pass, re-watch the game. At 8:25 of the fourth quarter, the Patriots were on the Denver 3 yard line - exactly the same spot they were in that Seattle game. Brady dropped back, felt pressure, and threw it out of the back of the end zone, and there wasn't a single Patriot player within 10-15 yards of the pass. It wasn't close to anyone. Clear throwaway.

Nantz' call on the play: "Back of the end zone.... Just a throwaway... And Gostkowski coming out for a 21 yard field goal."

No penalty. No grounding. Nothing. Just a regular old incomplete pass.

Consider these two images from the two plays.

Brady's pass vs. Seattle:

Now Brady's pass vs. Denver:

Literally, the same exact situation. Ball at the three yard line, QB feels pressure, stays in the pocket, and just throws it away out of the back of the end zone, with no receiver within 15 yards of where the ball ended up.

In the second instance - as happens all the time - no penalty for intentional grounding. In the first instance, Brady gets flagged for grounding.

Why do I bring this up? Obviously the first game was 4 years ago, so who cares? It just speaks to the inexplicable nature of NFL officiating on the field. Weekly we see calls made that just make us go, "What!?!?!?" Rarely do we see the *exact same situation* so clearly as this to make a comparison. This isn't really a judgment call. I know the refs in the Pats-Broncos game weren't thinking about the Pats-Seahawks game from four years ago. But it makes me wonder what, exactly, the refs in Seattle were thinking that day, because surely they've seen QBs throw the ball out of the back of the end zone and not thrown a flag.

 

[70Dart]

The top call was correct call according to NFL rules. In order for it not to be Intentional Grounding, there has to be a receiver within 10 yards of the pass depending on the situation, Brady would also need to be outside the pocket and the ball has to go past the LOS, but a receiver still has to be within 10 of the pass. If Brady is in the pocket (in both instances he was) and the receivers are 11 yards out it is intentional grounding, according to the rule. Brady dodged a bullet against Denver.

 

[sambam94]

I think it depends on how much pressure the QB is under. Is he throwing it through the end zone because no one was open, but not really under pressure?...or is he throwing it out of the end zone to avoid a sack? The later is intentional grounding. In regards to Brady, I don't remember how much pressure he was under...how about the SB against the Giants, he was called for IG then too.

 

[ivanvamp]

The top call was correct call according to NFL rules. In order for it not to be Intentional Grounding, there has to be a receiver within 10 yards of the pass depending on the situation, Brady would also need to be outside the pocket and the ball has to go past the LOS, but a receiver still has to be within 10 of the pass. If Brady is in the pocket (in both instances he was) and the receivers are 11 yards out it is intentional grounding, according to the rule. Brady dodged a bullet against Denver.

We've seen QBs throw the ball out of the end zone - sometimes into the crowd - and never get called for grounding in that situation. In fact, I've been watching football for about 40 years now, and have never, ever seen grounding called in that situation, except for that one time against Brady in Seattle. Obviously I haven't seen every NFL game over that span so maybe it's happened. But I've seen a LOT of football and have never seen it called.

Both of these seem pretty black and white though, right? Brady was clearly in the pocket in both cases, he was clearly being pressured, and he clearly threw the ball away, with nobody anywhere close to being within 10 yards away.

 

[Dorito Dink]

I didn't think Brady was ruled to be "under pressure" in the Broncos game but he was ruled to be under pressure in the Seattle game. I think both were the right calls

The one that I STILL have an issue with is the intentional grounding that resulted in a safety against the Giants in Super Bowl 46. I think the refs made too much of an assumption to call that grounding. If you're bombing the ball 40 yards down field, how are you to make the assumption that the receiver didn't run the wrong route? When Brady released the ball, Branch appeared to be running in the direction that Brady threw the ball. Instead, he ran a cut and the ball wasn't anywhere near him. That changed the whole dynamic of the game.

 

[70Dart]

We've seen QBs throw the ball out of the end zone - sometimes into the crowd - and never get called for grounding in that situation. In fact, I've been watching football for about 40 years now, and have never, ever seen grounding called in that situation, except for that one time against Brady in Seattle. Obviously I haven't seen every NFL game over that span so maybe it's happened. But I've seen a LOT of football and have never seen it called.

Both of these seem pretty black and white though, right? Brady was clearly in the pocket in both cases, he was clearly being pressured, and he clearly threw the ball away, with nobody anywhere close to being within 10 yards away.

The get calls wrong all the time. They do have an extremely tough job. What we see on TV and in replay, and what they see in real time. Mistakes will be made, however what I think should happen, Teams should be allowed to challenge such calls. But according to the rules, it technically is IG. As much as I disagree with the call.

We have seen the Zebras, get what should be identical penalties wrong on plays in the same game. We have seen them call OPI, when it clearly should have been DPI. This is why I feel teams should be allowed to challenge penalties. Not every penalty, just give them a chance like 2 per game. 1 per half.

 

[archstanton543]

But weren't those the replacement refs in the Seattle game?

 

[70Dart]

I didn't think Brady was ruled to be "under pressure" in the Broncos game but he was ruled to be under pressure in the Seattle game. I think both were the right calls

The one that I STILL have an issue with is the intentional grounding that resulted in a safety against the Giants in Super Bowl 46. I think the refs made too much of an assumption to call that grounding. If you're bombing the ball 40 yards down field, how are you to make the assumption that the receiver didn't run the wrong route? When Brady released the ball, Branch appeared to be running in the direction that Brady threw the ball. Instead, he ran a cut and the ball wasn't anywhere near him. That changed the whole dynamic of the game.

Pressure has nothing to do with that particular call. It has everything to do with being in or out of the pass pocket and the distance of the receivers from the pass. The only time the pressure would influence that type of call would be if Brady got hit and the ball got pushed forward. Like I said, the top call was the correct call (according to NFL rules, I actually agree with you and everyone else, I am just playing Devils advocate here).

 

[Turkamu]

• Imminent pressure. If the passer does not face "imminent loss of yardage,"[1] then there is no penalty. It is not a violation when the passer is not about to be tackled but simply misses his receiver because the receiver fails to run the route the quarterback expects.

 

[70Dart]

We've seen QBs throw the ball out of the end zone - sometimes into the crowd - and never get called for grounding in that situation. In fact, I've been watching football for about 40 years now, and have never, ever seen grounding called in that situation, except for that one time against Brady in Seattle. Obviously I haven't seen every NFL game over that span so maybe it's happened. But I've seen a LOT of football and have never seen it called.

Both of these seem pretty black and white though, right? Brady was clearly in the pocket in both cases, he was clearly being pressured, and he clearly threw the ball away, with nobody anywhere close to being within 10 yards away.

It should be black and white, but it definitely isn't. I am just going by what the rules state. However, I have seen Brady launch a football out of the back of the EZ 15 yards over the heads of everyone, under no pressure and not get flagged. The Refs are human and there is a lot of inconsistency in calls they make. Like I have said, I have seen teams get flagged for one thing, and the team they are playing not flagged for an identical play.

 

[Dorito Dink]

Pressure has nothing to do with that particular call. It has everything to do with being in or out of the pass pocket and the distance of the receivers from the pass. The only time the pressure would influence that type of call would be if Brady got hit and the ball got pushed forward. Like I said, the top call was the correct call (according to NFL rules, I actually agree with you and everyone else, I am just playing Devils advocate here).

From the NFL rulebook: "In the NFL Rule Book, intentional grounding occurs when "a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage because of pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion."

Looks like the constant is "under pressure" so I'm pretty sure you can throw it wherever you want while in the pocket as long as you aren't under pressure. I've seen Brady and other quarterbacks do it a million times. The rulebook doesn't explicitly state anything about grounding while not under pressure.

 

[70Dart]

• Imminent pressure. If the passer does not face "imminent loss of yardage,"[1] then there is no penalty. It is not a violation when the passer is not about to be tackled but simply misses his receiver because the receiver fails to run the route the quarterback expects.

Within 10 yards of the receiver. There are exceptions of course. If the receiver trips or slips, even then, too much gray area.

 

[sambam94]

From the NFL rulebook: "In the NFL Rule Book, intentional grounding occurs when "a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage because of pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion."

Looks like the constant is "under pressure" so I'm pretty sure you can throw it wherever you want while in the pocket as long as you aren't under pressure. I've seen Brady and other quarterbacks do it a million times. The rulebook doesn't explicitly state anything about grounding while not under pressure.

"realistic chance of completion" is horrible wording...there is no realistic chance of a completion when a ball is thrown 10 yards near the closest receiver.

 

[70Dart]

From the NFL rulebook: "In the NFL Rule Book, intentional grounding occurs when "a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage because of pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion."

Looks like the constant is "under pressure" so I'm pretty sure you can throw it wherever you want while in the pocket as long as you aren't under pressure. I've seen Brady and other quarterbacks do it a million times. The rulebook doesn't explicitly state anything about grounding while not under pressure.

You nit picked, find the rest of the rule please. Unrealistic chance of completion, so if the QB throws a football INTENTIONALLY out of the back of the EZ with NO CHANCE of completion then it is intentional grounding. If a QB threw the ball at the feet of the receiver it is then considered a legal pass. If the QB throws the ball out of bounds at the LOS and he is in the pocket and there is no receiver around it is Intentional grounding.

 

[70Dart]

Click the link. | NFL Football Operations

 

[Dorito Dink]

You nit picked, find the rest of the rule please. Unrealistic chance of completion, so if the QB throws a football INTENTIONALLY out of the back of the EZ with NO CHANCE of completion then it is intentional grounding. If a QB threw the ball at the feet of the receiver it is then considered a legal pass. If the QB throws the ball out of bounds at the LOS and he is in the pocket and there is no receiver around it is Intentional grounding.

Dude, I'm not nitpicking. You are bringing up the "realistic chance of completion" aspect and I referenced the section that contains that phrase which explicitly caveats the phrase with a passer facing "imminent loss of yardage because of pressure." Your entire comment above is meaningless given the fact that it assumes the passer is under pressure.

Like I said, I have found zero reference to grounding outside of a passer being under pressure. Since you're the expert, why don't you find the rest of the rule that supports your position? Happy to be wrong, but you're coming off as a know-it-all without even pointing to the rule that you supposedly know so much about.

 

[Dorito Dink]

Click the link. | NFL Football Operations

Nothing in that link supports your position on this topic. It literally states in the opening section that "It is a foul for intentional grounding if a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage because of pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion."

All of the other caveats to the rule stem from "passer being under pressure."

 

[ALP]

I think the major distinction we need here that is not being made is if the ball falls within the field of play or not

A qb can take the ball and immediately throw it laterally out of bounds and it's not intentional grounding even if all receivers are in the other side...because it landed out of bounds

Hence any ball that goes and lands behind end zone is NOT intentional grounding because it's outside the field of play

Those refs in Seattle and in the SB were smoking some crack

 

[70Dart]

Nothing in that link supports your position on this topic. It literally states in the opening section that "It is a foul for intentional grounding if a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage because of pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion."

All of the other caveats to the rule stem from "passer being under pressure."

No they don't, did you listen or read the entire thing? And if he is under pressure and throws a pass at the feet of a receiver within 10, it is deemed legal. There are also rules for not being under pressure, in the pocket and outside the pocket.

INTENTIONAL GROUNDING

It is a foul for intentional grounding if a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage because of pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion. A realistic chance of completion is defined as a pass that is thrown in the direction of and lands in the vicinity of an originally eligible receiver. (ie; within 10 yards of the receiver, beyond 10 yards it is Intentional grounding)

Item 1. Passer or Ball Outside Tackle Position. Intentional grounding will not be called when a passer, who is outside, or has been outside, the tackle position,throws a forward pass that lands at or beyond the line of scrimmage, even if no offensive player(s) have a realistic chance to catch the ball (including when the ball lands out of bounds over the sideline or endline). If the ball crosses the line of scrimmage (extended) beyond the sideline, there is no intentional grounding. If a loose ball leaves the area bordered by the tackles, this area no longer exists; if the ball is recovered, all intentional grounding rules apply as if the passer is outside this area.

Item 2. Physical Contact. Intentional grounding should not be called if:

1. the passer initiates his passing motion toward an eligible receiver and then is significantly affected by physical contact from a defensive player that causes the pass to land in an area that is not in the direction and vicinity of an eligible receiver; or
2. the passer is out of the pocket, and his passing motion is significantly affected by physical contact from a defensive player that causes the ball to land short of the line of scrimmage.

Item 3. Stopping Clock. A player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time if, immediately upon receiving the snap, he begins a continuous throwing motion and throws the ball directly into the ground.

Item 4. Delayed Spike. A passer, after delaying his passing action for strategic purposes, is prohibited from throwing the ball to the ground in front of him, even though he is under no pressure from defensive rusher(s).

Penalty: For intentional grounding:

1. loss of down and 10 yards from the previous spot; or
   
   
2. loss of down at the spot of the foul; or
   
   
3. if the passer is in his end zone when the ball is thrown, it is a safety. See 4-7 for actions to conserve time inside one minute of either half.
   

Note: If the foul occurs less than 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage, but more than half the distance to the goal line, the ball is to be placed at the spot of the pass.

 

[70Dart]

I think the major distinction we need here that is not being made is if the ball falls within the field of play or not

A qb can take the ball and immediately throw it laterally out of bounds and it's not intentional grounding even if all receivers are in the other side...because it landed out of bounds. The ball has to go past the line of scrimmage and he needs to be outside the pass pocket.

Hence any ball that goes and lands behind end zone is NOT intentional grounding because it's outside the field of play. It is if it is Intentionally thrown to be uncatchable and the QB is in the pass pocket.

Those refs in Seattle and in the SB were smoking some crack