Brace or Hobbs

[mgteich]

We traded up to the high-value #40 spot. We could have had E. Brown or Barwin or Sintim. We chose Brace. OR we could have drafted Unger (my choice at the time).

If we had drafted Unger, then Hobbs might still be here. We would not have been sitting at the beginning of Old Day Two (after the third) with no picks throughout the 4th and 5th, until our 5C. We definitely need a quality backup lineman.

BOTTOM LINE
We could have had Unger and Hobbs.
We have Ohrenberger and Brace.

Belichick will make it work. It appears that Belichick seriously wanted Wilfork insurance (contract insurance and injury insurance). This approach certainly DOES make sense even though we didn't see it coming.

 

[klinefan]

We traded up to the high-value #40 spot. We could have had E. Brown or Barwin or Sintim. We chose Brace. OR we could have drafted Unger (my choice at the time).

If we had drafted Unger, then Hobbs might still be here. We would not have been sitting at the beginning of Old Day Two (after the third) with no picks throughout the 4th and 5th, until our 5C. We definitely need a quality backup lineman.

BOTTOM LINE
We could have had Unger and Hobbs.
We have Ohrenberger and Brace.

Belichick will make it work. It appears that Belichick seriously wanted Wilfork insurance (contract insurance and injury insurance). This approach certainly DOES make sense even though we didn't see it coming.

I don't think theyh have anything to do with each other. If they drafted Unger, they would have had a hole in pics and it still would have made sense to trade Hobbs as there isn't much room for him. Where do they play him? In front of Springs and Bodden both of whom are more talented than him? Give him nickel back so they can ****** the development of their rookies? So I don't get your point.

Unberger was a major reach in the 4th. I don't think they were desperate for a 4th round pick so they could draft the incredible UDFA unberger. I think they just happened to draft him there and obviously had him higher than any other service in the league. I think both OT from the big 10 1st team went undrafted, and this little tiny guard gets drafted in the 4th?

I think BB took a shine to him because he's an lacrosse player. Not smart letting personal emotions cloud judgement.

 

[farn]

I don't think theyh have anything to do with each other. If they drafted Unger, they would have had a hole in pics and it still would have made sense to trade Hobbs as there isn't much room for him. Where do they play him? In front of Springs and Bodden both of whom are more talented than him? Give him nickel back so they can ****** the development of their rookies? So I don't get your point.

Unberger was a major reach in the 4th. I don't think they were desperate for a 4th round pick so they could draft the incredible UDFA unberger. I think they just happened to draft him there and obviously had him higher than any other service in the league. I think both OT from the big 10 1st team went undrafted, and this little tiny guard gets drafted in the 4th?

I think BB took a shine to him because he's an lacrosse player. Not smart letting personal emotions cloud judgement.

Major reach... who knows ? Is he really ? Mayo was a reach (until we heard another team was gonna take him and he won defensive ROTY). Mankins was a reach (until he went to the Pro Bowl). If this guy comes in and replaces a stater on this line, then he was worth it.

Emotional ? Dude, I hope you're being sarcastic. This is the guy who benched Bledsoe and let Malloy walk. Probably the least emo coach in the history of sports.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

I don't think theyh have anything to do with each other. If they drafted Unger, they would have had a hole in pics and it still would have made sense to trade Hobbs as there isn't much room for him. Where do they play him? In front of Springs and Bodden both of whom are more talented than him? Give him nickel back so they can ****** the development of their rookies? So I don't get your point.

Unberger was a major reach in the 4th. I don't think they were desperate for a 4th round pick so they could draft the incredible UDFA unberger. I think they just happened to draft him there and obviously had him higher than any other service in the league. I think both OT from the big 10 1st team went undrafted, and this little tiny guard gets drafted in the 4th?

I think BB took a shine to him because he's an lacrosse player. Not smart letting personal emotions cloud judgement.

Trust me BB would never let personal emotions cloud his judgement

In a way I agree with you about Hobbs but not that Springs and Bodden would come in and unseat the starter. He is actually a good CB with damn good return skills which made him a great player for BB. Now he is going into a contract year and the price to resign a good CB with playoff experience and his body of work he would demand some good money next year. BB just loaded up on CB and getting Butler in the second made his decision about Hobbs easier. They still have two young CB under contact from last years draft who I think will be contributors in 2010 and maybe 2009 one can step up an challenge for a starting spot or at least nickle who knows other then BB.

 

[mgteich]

Perhaps you are mixing up Ohrnberger with someone else, or perhaps you can't spell his name, or perhaps you use poor sources. You mention big 10 OT's. On Day 2, Belichick wasn't interested. He had already draft an OT on Day 1 and was looking for a guard.

I use Gosselin's analyis when looking for prospects. Gosselin's April 24th top 100 had Ohrenberger as the #80th top player in the draft. We certainly might have drafted him at 97 and still gotten value, but we chose McKenzie and then didn't have our guard. While I value Belichick's choices more that those of analysts, getting the 80th best player at 123 is hardly a "major reach in the 4th". It is simply good value.

Unberger was a major reach in the 4th. I don't think they were desperate for a 4th round pick so they could draft the incredible UDFA unberger. I think they just happened to draft him there and obviously had him higher than any other service in the league. I think both OT from the big 10 1st team went undrafted, and this little tiny guard gets drafted in the 4th?

I think BB took a shine to him because he's an lacrosse player. Not smart letting personal emotions cloud judgement.

 

[klinefan]

Perhaps you are mixing up Ohrnberger with someone else, or perhaps you can't spell his name, or perhaps you use poor sources. You mention big 10 OT's. On Day 2, Belichick wasn't interested. He had already draft an OT on Day 1 and was looking for a guard.

I use Gosselin's analyis when looking for prospects. Gosselin's April 24th top 100 had Ohrenberger as the #80th top player in the draft. We certainly might have drafted him at 97 and still gotten value, but we chose McKenzie and then didn't have our guard. While I value Belichick's choices more that those of analysts, getting the 80th best player at 123 is hardly a "major reach in the 4th". It is simply good value.

Well his service was the only one. The others had this guy Ornberger in the 500s or so as an UDFA. They were very clear about this. Marginal guy who gets minimal push in the run game. Too small, not really that athletic. What BB sees in him I don't know....but I don't see how he's any different than scores of other guys....my reference to the Big 10 OT iss that even their first team all big 10 tackles went undrafted, so it seems odd to say thte least that this tiny guard (guards are generally considered not as good athletes nor as valuable as tackles) got picked in the 4th when their big 10 tackles went undrafted.

Ornberger, Unberger, whatever. It won't matter after he gets cut and doesn't even make the practice squad.

 

[maverick4]

With all of our moves in the secondary, Hobbs wasn't going to start on this squad anyways.

I feel very good about the Brace pick. A solid run stuffer, and also insurance/leverage on Wilfork.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Well his service was the only one. The others had this guy Ornberger in the 500s or so as an UDFA. They were very clear about this. Marginal guy who gets minimal push in the run game. Too small, not really that athletic. What BB sees in him I don't know....but I don't see how he's any different than scores of other guys....my reference to the Big 10 OT iss that even their first team all big 10 tackles went undrafted, so it seems odd to say thte least that this tiny guard (guards are generally considered not as good athletes nor as valuable as tackles) got picked in the 4th when their big 10 tackles went undrafted.

Ornberger, Unberger, whatever. It won't matter after he gets cut and doesn't even make the practice squad.

Post-Draft Outlook: A closer look at the Patriots' picks: 4/123 -- Rich Ohrnberger, G, 6-2, 297, Penn State...With Stephen Neal slowed by injuries the past few years and a bevy of backups who can only handle the workload on a limited basis, it wouldn't hurt to have an up-and-coming guard learn on the job in 2009. Ohrnberger appears to have the personality and the talent to handle that role. On top of it, he's not a burly, oversized lineman, which means he fits perfectly in New England's screen-pass oriented offense. He can get down the field quickly and that will be a boost when the likes of Kevin Faulk and Wes Welker are worming their way up the field for extra yards. - by The Sports Xchange

For all he's such a "tiny" fellow, he was a 1st team All Big Ten and an AP Third Team All-American. It might have been nice to have drafted another higher rated prospect, but all indications suggest he's a decent fit for NE's system and he's only eight pounds lighter than Neal after doing all the track work trainers usually have these kids doing to lose weight and get faster/quicker for their Combine/Pro Day testing. I'm sure Coaches Woicik & Nash will have him in the 305 range with Neal when the time comes. As for "not getting good push in the run game," here's the write-up done on Mankins coming out of college:

The thing you quickly notice on film is his ability to down block, thanks to his impressive strength. He works his feet to wall off and seal. Even when he gets overextended, he is quick to recover and stay off the ground.

Note the words "wall off and seal," indicating he was a good fit for what Dante wants from his O-linemen. Parcells likes big bulldozers who try to overpower you at the point of attack, BB likes quick kids who get in front of the defender and get him turned before he can disrupt the play.

 

[alvinnf]

"When if's and buts are candy and nuts we'll all have a wonderful Christmas", nickel corners are a dime a dozen and potential 2 gappin NT's are rare. I'll take my chances with Brace.

 

[mgteich]

I'm fine with the decision. However, the market price for players like Samuel and Hobbs is not a dime a dozen; at least the last time I checked Samuel's compensation that wasn't the case. I expect that Hobbs will get a raise from someone for the 2010 season.

"When if's and buts are candy and nuts we'll all have a wonderful Christmas", nickel corners are a dime a dozen and potential 2 gappin NT's are rare. I'll take my chances with Brace.

 

[farn]

I'm fine with the decision. However, the market price for players like Samuel and Hobbs is not a dime a dozen; at least the last time I checked Samuel's compensation that wasn't the case. I expect that Hobbs will get a raise from someone for the 2010 season.

Beg to differ. I've been a big Hobbs backer for the last few years and I was a bit surprised/disappointed to see him go cheap. BUT, he's no Asante and he IS somewhat dime a dozen - the cheapos they got in the offseason are as good as he is (Bodden, Springs - yes, he was a tad more expensive, but not bank breaking, Butler).

 

[CoachK]

Well his service was the only one. The others had this guy Ornberger in the 500s or so as an UDFA. They were very clear about this. Marginal guy who gets minimal push in the run game. Too small, not really that athletic. What BB sees in him I don't know....but I don't see how he's any different than scores of other guys....my reference to the Big 10 OT iss that even their first team all big 10 tackles went undrafted, so it seems odd to say thte least that this tiny guard (guards are generally considered not as good athletes nor as valuable as tackles) got picked in the 4th when their big 10 tackles went undrafted.

Ornberger, Unberger, whatever. It won't matter after he gets cut and doesn't even make the practice squad.

Gosselin is not a scout and doesn't "grade" players.

He does, however apparently have access to lots of NFL teams and scouts and he uses their inputs to consistently develop the most accutae "top 100" draft lists (by far). So if he had Ohrnberger listed at #80, you can be sure this was not his opinion but the collective opinion of several NFL teams.

 

[AzPatsFan]

"When if's and buts are candy and nuts we'll all have a wonderful Christmas", nickel corners are a dime a dozen and potential 2 gappin NT's are rare. I'll take my chances with Brace.

Well said. NTs are rare commodities. There are 7 positions on the Defensive Line that BB has been building. Now he has the full seven quota of 3-4 startable players, and at all positions. Best of all not a one is over thirty years old. This D line has not even reached its peak yet.

 

[mgteich]

That sounds great, and now if we could only sign contracts in 2010 with Wilfork, Seymour, Green and Smith. The group of seven may be seven instead of six for the first time in years precisely because the picture is nowhere as rosy as you indicate.

Well said. NTs are rare commodities. There are 7 positions on the Defensive Line that BB has been building. Now he has the full seven quota of 3-4 startable players, and at all positions. Best of all not a one is over thirty years old. This D line has not even reached its peak yet.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

That sounds great, and now if we could only sign contracts in 2010 with Wilfork, Seymour, Green and Smith. The group of seven may be seven instead of six for the first time in years precisely because the picture is nowhere as rosy as you indicate.

You make good points and it would be great to keep our DL in tact for the next two our three years but I doubt the accountant could make it happen. With three DT's drafted this year and maybe two sticking around with one on the PR I think that BB is holding tryouts for Wilforks job. Seymour is just a valuable as Wilfork on our DL IMO. The money it would take to keep both even with a franchise tag would be tough but with the uncapped year who knows.

 

[State]

I use Gosselin's analyis when looking for prospects.

Yeah, but even that is a bit of a crapshot. For instance he has Gerald Cadogan at 86 this year, the OT from Penn State.

NFL draft: Rick Gosselin's Top 100

In a big surprise to me, Cardogan was undrafted and signed as a free agent, I think with Carolina.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't think theyh have anything to do with each other. If they drafted Unger, they would have had a hole in pics and it still would have made sense to trade Hobbs as there isn't much room for him. Where do they play him? In front of Springs and Bodden both of whom are more talented than him? Give him nickel back so they can ****** the development of their rookies? So I don't get your point.

Unberger was a major reach in the 4th. I don't think they were desperate for a 4th round pick so they could draft the incredible UDFA unberger. I think they just happened to draft him there and obviously had him higher than any other service in the league. I think both OT from the big 10 1st team went undrafted, and this little tiny guard gets drafted in the 4th?

I think BB took a shine to him because he's an lacrosse player. Not smart letting personal emotions cloud judgement.

While I agree with your premise that there is no relation between Unger and Hobbs I have to disagree with you about Ohrnberger. Ohrnberger wasn't rated as a UDFA. He was rated as a mid 3rd to mid 4th draft pick. Also, Ohrnberger is hardly Tiny. He's the same size as Koppen and only slightly smaller than Neal, Hochstein and Mankins.

BB could have taken a shine to Ohrnberger because he's cross-trained as a center in college and has a nasty attitude. Plus, he's smart.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well his service was the only one. The others had this guy Ornberger in the 500s or so as an UDFA. They were very clear about this. Marginal guy who gets minimal push in the run game. Too small, not really that athletic. What BB sees in him I don't know....but I don't see how he's any different than scores of other guys....my reference to the Big 10 OT iss that even their first team all big 10 tackles went undrafted, so it seems odd to say thte least that this tiny guard (guards are generally considered not as good athletes nor as valuable as tackles) got picked in the 4th when their big 10 tackles went undrafted.

Ornberger, Unberger, whatever. It won't matter after he gets cut and doesn't even make the practice squad.

What services had Ohrnberger (and it does make a difference how you spell the guy's name) as a UDFA? Seriously. NFLDraftScout.com had him as a mid 3rd to mid 4th round pick. So that is 3 well respected people who had Ohrnberger in the area that he was drafted..

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

The Niners, a committed 3-4 team, were picking 43rd when the Pats were holding the 47th pick. After the Pats traded up with Oakland to grab Brace, the 49ers traded with Carolina out of the 2nd round shortly after.

2009 draft picks: 40-43

40 - Pats (from Oak): Ron Brace (NT)
41 - Pats (from GB): Darius Butler (CB)
42 - Bills: Jairus Byrd (CB)
43 - Carolina (from SF): Everette Brown (DE)

Either SF wanted Brace, Butler, or Bryd. Since SF spent big money at the CB position (Clements), albeit not 100% likely, but it's very possible that the Niners wanted Brace and the Pats surmised this.

As for Hobbs, he was a forgone conclusion. Drafting 3 CBs over the past 2 drafts and getting 2 veteran CBs in 2009, isn't an endorsement for incumbents like Hobbs.

 

[DaBruinz]

The Niners, a committed 3-4 team, were picking 43rd when the Pats were holding the 47th pick. After the Pats traded up with Oakland to grab Brace, the 49ers traded with Carolina out of the 2nd round shortly after.

2009 draft picks: 40-43

40 - Pats (from Oak): Ron Brace (NT)
41 - Pats (from GB): Darius Butler (CB)
42 - Bills: Jairus Byrd (CB)
43 - Carolina (from SF): Everette Brown (DE)

Either SF wanted Brace, Butler, or Bryd. Since SF spent big money at the CB position (Clements), albeit not 100% likely, but it's very possible that the Niners wanted Brace and the Pats surmised this.

As for Hobbs, he was a forgone conclusion. Drafting 3 CBs over the past 2 drafts and getting 2 veteran CBs in 2009, isn't an endorsement for incumbents like Hobbs.

How was Hobbs a foregone conclusion when BB, himself, stated that leading up to the draft, they had no intentions of trading Hobbs and that it was only Philly approaching them with the offer that they did that convinced them to make the trade.